Reason and Religion

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,08:04)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,05:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:18)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53)

If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also:

Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Hi BD,

How does one point establish the other? …have you not read Isaiah 49:6?

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
Do you deny that Isaiah is speaking of Jesus Christ here? <– Please answer this question?

Have not Christians brought the “Good news” of the Gospel unto the end of the earth. <– Also please answer this question?

B'shem
YHVH

I'm not disagreeing notice the usage of the term “I WILL” that is a fortelling of future events so yes I would agree it applies but look:

Acts 13:47
For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

(1)Notice what you apply to Jesus Christ is also then applied again and pluralized?

Notice how you have to go from this is Isaiah speaking about Christ to include all Christians so who is this light? Christ or all Christians?
(2)Christians cannot apply to the Servant that raise up the tribes of Jacob, right?

Hi BD,

1) Correct

2) It most certainly does apply. (see 1Cor.12:27)
Now ye (Christians) are the body of Christ,
and members in particular. (1Cor.12:27)

B'shem
YHVH

So Isaiah was not speking about Jesus in particular?

Hi BD,

Perhaps this is where the problem lays.
You seem to miss the spiritual applications
and instead focus on the physical. It's about
the “spirit of Christ” in particular. (Rom.8:9-11)

Perhaps you need the “spirit of Christ” in you?

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (John 14:23 and Hebrews 9:28)
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead
shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:9-11)

The part in blue is for all to have their own personal “Pentecost”.
Would you like to be filled with the “HolySpirit”, Asana Bodhitharta?

B'shem
YHVH

November 21, 2011 at 11:19 pm#262920

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,08:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,05:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:18)

(1)No evil shall befall thee.

(2)Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

(3)If he was crucified then he was not delivered and his call was not answered because the call of Jesus was this:

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

(4)Did the Cup pass from him or not?

Hi BD,

1) No evil did befall him, because he went willingly to the cross. (see John 12:27-28)
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. (John 12:27-28)

2) YHVH did deliver him, God raised him from the dead! (see Psalms 16:10)
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalms 16:10)

3) Mathew 26:39 does not override John 12:27;
only in the 'book of fraud' does one verse override another.

4) Nope; because it was his father's will for him to bring salvation to the ends of the earth. (see 1John 2:2)
He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1John 2:2)

B'shem
YHVH

Psalm 93

14 “Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him;
I will protect him, because he knows my name.
15 When he calls to me, I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble;
I will rescue him and honour him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.”

Remember , you believe that Jesus Chist said he was forsaken

Do you understand what rescue means?

Hi BD,

First off, there is no Psalm 93:15-16?
And you need to quote the bible correctly if you want to learn; OK?

Psalms 91:15-16 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him:
I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him.
With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

YHVH delivered Jesus from the grave (called resurrection).
Everlasting life is pretty L-O-N-G, wouldn't you say?

B'shem
YHVH

November 22, 2011 at 1:01 am#262930

Blocked

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2011,09:47)

Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus,

Too bad cannonized scripture doesn't come right out and say that. I wonder how well Ed and Gene would be able to argue that the Word isn't Jesus if it did.

November 22, 2011 at 3:43 am#262937

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,09:19)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,08:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,05:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:18)

(1)No evil shall befall thee.

(2)Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

(3)If he was crucified then he was not delivered and his call was not answered because the call of Jesus was this:

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

(4)Did the Cup pass from him or not?

Hi BD,

2) YHVH did deliver him, God raised him from the dead! (see Psalms 16:10)
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalms 16:10)

3) Mathew 26:39 does not override John 12:27;
only in the 'book of fraud' does one verse override another.

B'shem
YHVH

Psalm 93

Remember , you believe that Jesus Chist said he was forsaken

Do you understand what rescue means?

Hi BD,

First off, there is no Psalm 93:15-16?
And you need to quote the bible correctly if you want to learn; OK?

Psalms 91:15-16 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him:
I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him.
With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

YHVH delivered Jesus from the grave (called resurrection).
Everlasting life is pretty L-O-N-G, wouldn't you say?

B'shem
YHVH

Long life indicates mortal life there is no such thing as long everlasting life

November 22, 2011 at 3:44 am#262938

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2011,11:01)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2011,09:47)

Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus,

Too bad cannonized scripture doesn't come right out and say that. I wonder how well Ed and Gene would be able to argue that the Word isn't Jesus if it did.

I agree.

November 23, 2011 at 8:48 pm#265037

Participant

Hi BD and Mike,

That says 'a word' not “The Word”.
Do you believe that “The Word is the “HolySpirit; BD?

B'shem
YHVH

November 23, 2011 at 9:46 pm#265042

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2011,06:48)

Hi BD and Mike,

That says 'a word' not “The Word”.
Do you believe that “The Word is the “HolySpirit; BD?

B'shem
YHVH

Is there anything that can come out of the Mouth of God that is not HOLY SPIRIT?

Didn't Jesus say this? John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

John 3:34
For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.

November 23, 2011 at 9:58 pm#265043

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2011,07:46)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2011,06:48)

Hi BD and Mike,

That says 'a word' not “The Word”.
Do you believe that “The Word is the “HolySpirit; BD?

B'shem
YHVH

Is there anything that can come out of the Mouth of God that is not HOLY SPIRIT?

Didn't Jesus say this? John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

John 3:34
For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.

Hi BD,

Then you are agreeing with me rather than Mike.

B'shem
YHVH

November 23, 2011 at 11:37 pm#265045

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2011,07:58)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2011,07:46)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2011,06:48)

Hi BD and Mike,

That says 'a word' not “The Word”.
Do you believe that “The Word is the “HolySpirit; BD?

B'shem
YHVH

Is there anything that can come out of the Mouth of God that is not HOLY SPIRIT?

Didn't Jesus say this? John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

John 3:34
For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.

Hi BD,

Then you are agreeing with me rather than Mike.

B'shem
YHVH

I might be agreeing with both of you, maybe you agree with Mike but not understand that you infact do.

November 23, 2011 at 11:46 pm#265047

Blocked

I don't think so, BD. I believe that the Word who became flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten was Jesus – not the Holy Spirit. Ed does not agree……………..YET.

November 23, 2011 at 11:54 pm#265049

Participant

Hi BD,

Spirit(91) = Hō Lōgôs(91)

English ↔ Hebrew ↔ Greek
“Word of God” ↔ “God” ↔ “The Word”
“Word of God”(86) = (אלהים](86] = [ο λογος](86)th Prime Hō Lōgôs
YHVH(63) = ĔL-ō-Hêêm(63) = The Bible(63)
Spirit of God(117) = (117)יהוה האלהים = Bible Truth(117)

God=86 in Hebrew and “The Word”=86 in Greek ARE EQUAL.
Theomatic numbers to prime number counterparts. (John 1:1)

The “HolySpirit” is “The Word”(of God)!
Hebrew=Greek
(86)אלהים=ο λογος(86th Prime)
(ĔL-ō-Hêêm)God=The Word(Hō Lōgôs)

(Lōgôs) [λογος]=373 means “Word”, and 373 is the 74th Prime Number!
(Hō Lōgôs) [ο λογος]=443 means “The Word” and 443 is the 86th Prime Number. (John 1:1)

This symbol ( > ) means GREATER THAN in mathematics
The pieces fit together perfectly: “The Word” (86) > “Word” (74).
In English it's comparable to (The LORD JEHOVAH) > (Lord Jesus=74) is the “God Son”=74!
“The Owner” > “Owner “
JEHOVAH > Jesus
86 > 74

In English, the significant number (74) is attributed to JOSHUA=74, Messiah=74;
also in the following: JESUS=74, Cross=74, Gospel=74, and English=74.
Jesus Christ (74×32) also factors 74 in Greek Theomatically:
[Jesus] Ιησους=74(x12), [Christ] Χριστоς=74(x20).
[Son of Man] υιος τον ανθρωπου=74(x40).

B'shem
YHVH

November 24, 2011 at 12:10 am#265052

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2011,09:54)

Hi BD,

Spirit(91) = Hō Lōgôs(91)

God=86 in Hebrew and “The Word”=86 in Greek ARE EQUAL.
Theomatic numbers to prime number counterparts. (John 1:1)

The “HolySpirit” is “The Word”(of God)!
Hebrew=Greek
(86)אלהים=ο λογος(86th Prime)
(ĔL-ō-Hêêm)God=The Word(Hō Lōgôs)

(Lōgôs) [λογος]=373 means “Word”, and 373 is the 74th Prime Number!
(Hō Lōgôs) [ο λογος]=443 means “The Word” and 443 is the 86th Prime Number. (John 1:1)

B'shem
YHVH

This is what I said you and Mike are seeming to agree, you believe that Jehovah is greater than Jesus and so does he and I.

November 24, 2011 at 12:15 am#265055

Blocked

Amen to that. Jesus is a servant of Jehovah.

November 24, 2011 at 9:08 pm#265224

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2011,10:15)

Amen to that. Jesus is a servant of Jehovah.

This was my whole point of this topic of reason and religion now that we all can agree that Jesus is the servant of Jehovah that should never come up again for that that agree on that point. If someone disagrees with that point then it would be reasonble to debate that issue.

Now that we agree that the honorable and blessed Jesus Christ is a servant to Jehovah it is most certainly reasonable to say that all that come before Jehovah is as a servant.

November 24, 2011 at 9:27 pm#265228

Proclaimer

Participant

Yes he is a servant and a messenger.
But he is also the son of God and the messiah.
He was the Word that was with God and he came in the flesh.
He existed in the form of God (divine nature) and emptied himself and came in the flesh.
He is now in the glory that he had with God before the world began.

God made all things for him and through him because he was the first to be with God.
Someone had to be first and he was first. This is what gives him special standing before God.

So yes he is the servant of YHWH, we can agree.
But the disagreement was never that. It was always about who Jesus is and was that causes contention.

November 25, 2011 at 3:38 pm#265962

Blocked

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2011,14:08)

Now that we agree that the honorable and blessed Jesus Christ is a servant to Jehovah it is most certainly reasonable to say that all that come before Jehovah is as a servant.

Agreed. Pretty soon, there will be those who are servants of Jehovah, and those who are in the lake of fire. I don't believe there will be any in between.

November 25, 2011 at 4:12 pm#265965

seekingtruth

Participant

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

November 25, 2011 at 4:15 pm#265966

Blocked

Hi Wm,

That verse speaks of servants of Jesus – not servants of Jehovah.

November 25, 2011 at 4:58 pm#265967

seekingtruth

Participant

First let me be clear, the Son does all that the Father desires and is a true servant to His Father. I was only noting that scripture states “I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business” does the Son not know the Father's business?

November 25, 2011 at 5:40 pm#265970