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Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2011,09:47) Mike tell me how you come to the conclusion that in 622 AD Muhammad start to write down his book the Koran about the religion of Abraham who live 3000 years earlier,?
Hi Pierre,I was only trying to get you to see that the one Muslims call “Our God” is the God of Abraham. And the one we call “Our God” is also the God of Abraham.
Anything beyond that is out of my current realm of understanding. I was hoping you guys could actually discuss the issues instead of throwing accusations and blame back and forth.
your friend,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,10:24) bod you have trouble in understanding the scriptures ,
their is only one covenant but many times confirmed trough out the descendants of Abraham ,Ismael was never part of Gods blessings ;
Ge 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.
Ge 15:14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.Ge 16:11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
“You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.
Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.Ge 17:3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him,
Ge 17:4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.
Ge 17:5 No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.Ge 21:12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
Ge 21:13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”for now look at it but no Muslim are not God loving people
Pierre
Read Pierre by the command of the ALMIGHTY READ:Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2011,19:07) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,10:24) bod you have trouble in understanding the scriptures ,
their is only one covenant but many times confirmed trough out the descendants of Abraham ,Ismael was never part of Gods blessings ;
Ge 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.
Ge 15:14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.Ge 16:11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
“You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.
Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.Ge 17:3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him,
Ge 17:4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.
Ge 17:5 No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.Ge 21:12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
Ge 21:13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”for now look at it but no Muslim are not God loving people
Pierre
Read Pierre by the command of the ALMIGHTY READ:Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
bodyou still do not get it ;
Ge 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
Ge 17:21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.”Ismael receives from God what all men have received since Noah,
but NO covenant ,no DEAL,no part of a DEAL with God of Abraham,got it ??
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,12:35) bod you still do not get it ;
Ge 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
Ge 17:21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.”Ismael receives from God what all men have received since Noah,
but NO covenant ,no DEAL,no part of a DEAL with God of Abraham,got it ??
Pierre
He had already received the Covenant that Abraham received before the covenant that Isaac was promisedGenesis 17
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Did you not read where it is clearly saying that Ishmael and Isaac and all under the covenant of circumcision worship the same God?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2011,20:26) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,12:35) bod you still do not get it ;
Ge 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
Ge 17:21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.”Ismael receives from God what all men have received since Noah,
but NO covenant ,no DEAL,no part of a DEAL with God of Abraham,got it ??
Pierre
He had already received the Covenant that Abraham received before the covenant that Isaac was promisedGenesis 17
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Did you not read where it is clearly saying that Ishmael and Isaac and all under the covenant of circumcision worship the same God?
bodwho is ;HE
ismael ?? or Abraham ??Pierre
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2011,19:07) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,10:24) bod you have trouble in understanding the scriptures ,
their is only one covenant but many times confirmed trough out the descendants of Abraham ,Ismael was never part of Gods blessings ;
Ge 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.
Ge 15:14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.Ge 16:11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
“You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.
Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.Ge 17:3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him,
Ge 17:4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.
Ge 17:5 No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.Ge 21:12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
Ge 21:13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”for now look at it but no Muslim are not God loving people
Pierre
Read Pierre by the command of the ALMIGHTY READ:Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
bodGe 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.
HE ;stands for ISMAELand this is said before Gen 17;20
this is what it his and still true today ;LOOK AT THE NEWS ,OPEN YOUR EYES
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,02:32) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,21:46) Hi Pierre, Looks like it is going to take Mike a while to figure that out.
Well teach me then, Ed. But do it one point at a time, showing SPECIFICALLY where the Quran has a teaching that is in direct opposition to the scriptures.I'm not a Muslim, Ed. But I can surely recognize when people base their arguments on stereotypes and propaganda instead of FACTS.
Show the FACTS, and then you will win your case. Do it one point at a time, and then people will actually SEE you win your case.
Hey Mike, is the “Gospel”, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
And how did Muhammad get the information that he wrote in the quran?Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.B'shem (in the Name of)
YHVH (the everlasting God)Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,14:09) bod Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.
HE ;stands for ISMAELand this is said before Gen 17;20
this is what it his and still true today ;LOOK AT THE NEWS ,OPEN YOUR EYES
Pierre
What would that have to do with a covenant that occurs afterGenesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nationAnd further you need to accept that Ishmael has the same God as Issac and Abraham if you can't admit that simplest of all facts I don't think we can even have a discussion anymore because you would be showing willful refusal to show honesty
bod
Quote Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nationlike I say before ,in this scriptures there is no COVENANT just a blessing ;SAME AS THE ONE GIVE FOR ISRAEL,BUT ISRAEL ON TOP OF IT AS RECIEVED A COVENANT,
Quote And further you need to accept that Ishmael has the same God as Issac and Abraham if you can't admit that simplest of all facts I don't think we can even have a discussion anymore because you would be showing willful refusal to show honesty did Cain ad the same God than his father Adam ?? yes he did ,but witch way did he took ? his own and so made himself a god.
did Ismael followed the God of his father Abraham or did he follow the gods of Egypt like his mother ??
what God foretold is this ;
Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.
HE ;stands for ISMAELthis is still true today ;;; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.
it seems you have a problem with the truth of scriptures ??
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2011,02:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,02:32) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,21:46) Hi Pierre, Looks like it is going to take Mike a while to figure that out.
Well teach me then, Ed. But do it one point at a time, showing SPECIFICALLY where the Quran has a teaching that is in direct opposition to the scriptures.I'm not a Muslim, Ed. But I can surely recognize when people base their arguments on stereotypes and propaganda instead of FACTS.
Show the FACTS, and then you will win your case. Do it one point at a time, and then people will actually SEE you win your case.
Hey Mike, is the “Gospel”, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
And how did Muhammad get the information that he wrote in the quran?Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.B'shem (in the Name of)
YHVH (the everlasting God)
Ed“Gal 1:8” was referring to others preaching about a different gospel of Christ than what Paul had preached to them and his teaching was actually different than the gospel Jesus preached which is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, Paul
preaches the Gospel of Jesus ChristBut who was Paul talking about? who else but Jews that were insisting that the gentiles accept Jewish practces such as circumcision and the Law
Galatians 2
…..I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,[a] just as Peter had been to the circumcised. 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.So there it is clear proof that Paul was saying that the gentiles should not accept any other Gospel than he gave them. ED you must study the entire bible
Galatians 2
11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?It's very provocative when you find something that seemingly goes with your theories but the fact is most people won't investigate your claims but I will, if you were correct I would admit it but when your not I'm going to tell you.
Also Paul having a revelation that seemed to go against what Jesus had taught his disciples makes my argument stronger.
If Paul can have a revelation that the disciples (that were actually with Jesus while he was alive) did not know about or agree with and seems to go against much of the Old Testament itself then why couldn't Muhammad have a revelation as well?
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 29 2011,03:56) bod Quote Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nationlike I say before ,in this scriptures there is no COVENANT just a blessing ;SAME AS THE ONE GIVE FOR ISRAEL,BUT ISRAEL ON TOP OF IT AS RECIEVED A COVENANT,
Quote And further you need to accept that Ishmael has the same God as Issac and Abraham if you can't admit that simplest of all facts I don't think we can even have a discussion anymore because you would be showing willful refusal to show honesty did Cain ad the same God than his father Adam ?? yes he did ,but witch way did he took ? his own and so made himself a god.
did Ismael followed the God of his father Abraham or did he follow the gods of Egypt like his mother ??
what God foretold is this ;
Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.
HE ;stands for ISMAELthis is still true today ;;; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.
it seems you have a problem with the truth of scriptures ??
Pierre
Circumcision was a sign of the Covenant did you not read that?Genesis 17:9-14
King James Version (KJV)
9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Abraham and Ishmael was circumcised the same day this would mean Ishmael has an EVERLASTING covenant with God
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2011,04:16) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2011,02:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,02:32) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,21:46) Hi Pierre, Looks like it is going to take Mike a while to figure that out.
Well teach me then, Ed. But do it one point at a time, showing SPECIFICALLY where the Quran has a teaching that is in direct opposition to the scriptures.I'm not a Muslim, Ed. But I can surely recognize when people base their arguments on stereotypes and propaganda instead of FACTS.
Show the FACTS, and then you will win your case. Do it one point at a time, and then people will actually SEE you win your case.
Hey Mike, is the “Gospel”, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
And how did Muhammad get the information that he wrote in the quran?Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.B'shem (in the Name of)
YHVH (the everlasting God)
Ed“Gal 1:8” was referring to others preaching about a different gospel of Christ than what Paul had preached to them and his teaching was actually different than the gospel Jesus preached which is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, Paul
preaches the Gospel of Jesus ChristBut who was Paul talking about? who else but Jews that were insisting that the gentiles accept Jewish practces such as circumcision and the Law
Galatians 2
…..I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,[a] just as Peter had been to the circumcised. 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.So there it is clear proof that Paul was saying that the gentiles should not accept any other Gospel than he gave them. ED you must study the entire bible
Galatians 2
11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?It's very provocative when you find something that seemingly goes with your theories but the fact is most people won't investigate your claims but I will, if you were correct I would admit it but when your not I'm going to tell you.
Also Paul having a revelation that seemed to go against what Jesus had taught his disciples makes my argument stronger.
If Paul can have a revelation that the disciples (that were actually with Jesus while he was alive) did not know about or agree with and seems to go against much of the Old Testament itself then why couldn't Muhammad have a revelation as well?
Hi BD,Are you suggesting that the Apostle Paul is (according to BD) warning people against his own Gospel?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2011,11:22) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 29 2011,03:56) bod Quote Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nationlike I say before ,in this scriptures there is no COVENANT just a blessing ;SAME AS THE ONE GIVE FOR ISRAEL,BUT ISRAEL ON TOP OF IT AS RECIEVED A COVENANT,
Quote And further you need to accept that Ishmael has the same God as Issac and Abraham if you can't admit that simplest of all facts I don't think we can even have a discussion anymore because you would be showing willful refusal to show honesty did Cain ad the same God than his father Adam ?? yes he did ,but witch way did he took ? his own and so made himself a god.
did Ismael followed the God of his father Abraham or did he follow the gods of Egypt like his mother ??
what God foretold is this ;
Ge 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.
HE ;stands for ISMAELthis is still true today ;;; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.
it seems you have a problem with the truth of scriptures ??
Pierre
Circumcision was a sign of the Covenant did you not read that?Genesis 17:9-14
King James Version (KJV)
9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Abraham and Ishmael was circumcised the same day this would mean Ishmael has an EVERLASTING covenant with God
bodyou are a great deceiver ,and a willingly one you like it ,you are blind to truth of God ,
you know that the covenant his between God and Abraham ,and Ismael and any other child Abraham ad have NO part in that covenant ,
as a deceiver you always will hide your real purpose just like the devil did in the garden of Eden,
and present false testimony to any one listen to you,
you took a stand against the holy spirit of God and refuse the truth so your blood will fall on your own shoulders, I am innocent of your live ,you took it upon your self to rebel against the almighty God of Abraham and his Son Jesus Christ ,
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2011,05:26) Hi BD, Are you suggesting that the Apostle Paul is (according to BD) warning people against his own Gospel?
B'shem
YHVH
Actually the apostle Paul is warning the people he preached to not to listen to the Gospel that the disciples were preaching which he calls the Gospel of the circumcisedGalatians 5:3
New International Version (NIV)
3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
Galatians 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.Paul is declaring he has a different Gospel than the one given to the disciples he even says:
Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 28 2011,09:35) Hey Mike, is the “Gospel”, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
And how did Muhammad get the information that he wrote in the quran?Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Hi Ed,I'm right there with you on that one. Asana has suggested that there were no eyewitnesses among the NT writers that actually saw Jesus give up his last breath. But John was there, according to scripture.
And I posted Rev 1:18 for him and asked if Jesus himself was a good enough witness of his own death.
He made light of it because Rev is a vision. So I asked him if that meant it wasn't the truth. And I've been waiting for an answer.
(I think he overlooked that post from me.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2011,09:43) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 28 2011,09:35) Hey Mike, is the “Gospel”, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
And how did Muhammad get the information that he wrote in the quran?Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Hi Ed,I'm right there with you on that one. Asana has suggested that there were no eyewitnesses among the NT writers that actually saw Jesus give up his last breath. But John was there, according to scripture.
And I posted Rev 1:18 for him and asked if Jesus himself was a good enough witness of his own death.
He made light of it because Rev is a vision. So I asked him if that meant it wasn't the truth. And I've been waiting for an answer.
(I think he overlooked that post from me.)
Hi Mike I would never purposely not answer you but I will say that having a vision which already incorporates the elements a person believes in is not unusual even when you read about Near Death Experiences they often have visions that reflect their current belief. But also there can be layers of meaning
18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Notice it says “behold, I am alive forevermore” John alreay would have known about the resurrection so it would be no reason to say behold unless perhaps you are referring to a different perspective such as to say “and was dead” in the context of thought to be dead but I am alive. But of course that is speculation on my part.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2011,18:41) unless perhaps you are referring to a different perspective such as to say “and was dead” in the context of thought to be dead but I am alive. But of course that is speculation on my part.
At least you admit your speculation.Asana, if it said “thought to be dead”, then I would believe “thought to be dead”. But it says “and WAS dead”. Therefore, I have no choice but to believe “and WAS dead”.
Surely Jesus knows whether or not he was dead, right?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2011,11:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2011,18:41) unless perhaps you are referring to a different perspective such as to say “and was dead” in the context of thought to be dead but I am alive. But of course that is speculation on my part.
At least you admit your speculation.Asana, if it said “thought to be dead”, then I would believe “thought to be dead”. But it says “and WAS dead”. Therefore, I have no choice but to believe “and WAS dead”.
Surely Jesus knows whether or not he was dead, right?
peace,
mike
Yes, but the person speaking does not even identify himself as Jesus although I assume in the vision it is JesusThe entire NT leaves so much room for speculation and very rarely clear and concise even between different books
bod
Quote Actually the apostle Paul is warning the people he preached to not to listen to the Gospel that the disciples were preaching which he calls the Gospel of the circumcised that's a miss representation of Paul s words ,What Paul says is ;you can not preached the obligation to be circumcised under the old covenant and be part of the new covenant because Christ as done away with the old covenant base on the circumcision ,sins he is the fulfillment of it,
but you are a Muslim this is of no interest sins you are forbidden to become a Christian
you can close your eyes to all the horrors that the Muslim are still practicing today in the many country's they are the rulers ,NO freedom is respected sins Muhammad 630AD +/_
any true Christian will not take a sword to kill his enemy ,do not compere so called Christians who have a political views and action ,those are not Christians ,
Pierre
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