Reason and Religion

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,22:30)

Quote (princess @ Dec. 21 2011,11:32) Quote All the inspired books would agree if they were the truth What is even more saddening is that most have core concepts, it is what is added to these concepts that brings the differences. These differences are what determines the religious truth to a denomination. Hence, every religion has the truth, and all others are false. I agree the all remain blind to the core principles so that they can fell “better than” others

bod

is that applies to you or it is only for other than you ??

I agree the all remain blind to the core principles so that they can fell “better than” others

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,05:32)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right? Hi BD, Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”. Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to. B'shem YHVH The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others?

Hi BD,

Because the others are not canon.
Canon means the measuring line of truth.

B'shem
YHVH

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,22:29)

T8, The Torah is included in your Bible but not because the Jews give Christianity validation…………..

It is included because it contains God-breathed words. And the writers of it often validated Jesus without knowing they were doing it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,18:04)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,09:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 19 2011,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:16) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,20:58) There is only one scripture that seems to say that John was there and that is not even clear so why do you say you believe eyewitnesses………… Revelation 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. How about Jesus?  Can I believe him as an eyewitness? Doesn't the book of revelation count as a vision? Jeremiah 30 and 31 was a vision he had in a dream, because at the end of it, he woke up refreshed. Does that mean those words don't count as “real” scripture? John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us—and we ought to lay down our lives for one another. To lay down your life does not mean that you are killed it simply means you are willing to die and I don't know many people who are not willing to die for something or someone

Does a vision exclude the words within from being true, Asana?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2011,18:14)

Jesus death does not offer complete salvation and he is not the son of God, is what the Koran teaches.

Muslims apparently don't even believe Jesus actually died.

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2011,18:14)

I myself are open to other books…..

I bet Kathi wouldn't even notice this typo.  To her, it makes perfect sense to use singular pronouns for more than one person, so I imagine she'd consider it normal for you to use a plural verb with singular pronouns.  

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2011,03:21)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,05:32) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right? Hi BD, Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”. Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to. B'shem YHVH The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others? Hi BD, Because the others are not canon. Canon means the measuring line of truth. B'shem YHVH

Yes, they are canonized versions

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2011,01:04)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2011,03:21) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,05:32) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 20 2011,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 18 2011,21:12) So on one hand you admit you don't know what's in the mind of God nor need to know his every thought on the other hand you say with certainty that what I am telling you about Christ has to be incorrect based upon your knowledge of God………… Based on my knowledge of scriptures.  Not based on my knowledge of what's in God's mind. Yes but it is only your assumption that the scriptures you read have validity therefore you only believe what is in God's mind based upon your limited view, for instance you don't believe that you are incorrect about Jesus based on Judaism and they have scriptures that you base your entire belief on they don't consider anything in the NT scripture or Holy they consider Jesus a false prophet or worse and they are the “Chosen People” so your knowledge is only based on scriptures you accept, right? Hi BD, Yep, which are the 66 established books of canon that comprise “The Bible”. Not on a book of deception, which the mislead are forced to submit to. B'shem YHVH The only problem is there are different cannons some have 73 books and the Ethiopin canon has 84 books so why would your 66 have greater weight than the others? Hi BD, Because the others are not canon. Canon means the measuring line of truth. B'shem YHVH Yes, they are canonized versions

bod

what would you call to be canon ,i am sure you would make the Koran canon ?right ?

Pierre

[bodhitharta]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2011,21:23)

bod what would you call to be canon ,i am sure you would make the Koran canon ?right ? Pierre

The word canon simply means authorized; recognized; accepted so obviously the Glorious Quran is recognized and accepted even if you dislike it what do you think “Canon” means

A biblical canon, or canon of scripture,[1] is a list of books considered to be authoritative as scripture by a particular religious community. The word “canon” comes from the Greek “κανών”, meaning “rule” or “measuring stick”. The term was first coined by Christians,[2] but the idea is found in Jewish sources. The internal wording of the text can also be specified, for example the Masoretic Text is the canonical text for Judaism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

The canons listed below are usually considered “closed” (i.e., books cannot be added or removed),[3] reflecting a belief that public revelation has ended and thus the inspired texts may be gathered into a complete and authoritative canon.[4] By contrast, an “open canon” permits the addition of books through the process of continuous revelation.

Here is just a few:

2 Jewish canon
3 Samaritan canon
4 Christian canons 4.1 Marcion's Canon
4.2 Earliest Christian communities
4.3 Apostolic Fathers
4.4 Alexandrian Fathers
4.5 Latin Fathers
4.6 Ethiopian and Syriac Churches
4.7 Luther's canon

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2011,07:15)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2011,21:23) bod what would you call to be canon ,i am sure you would make the Koran canon ?right ? Pierre The word canon simply means authorized; recognized; accepted so obviously the Glorious Quran is recognized and accepted even if you dislike it what do you think “Canon” means A biblical canon, or canon of scripture,[1] is a list of books considered to be authoritative as scripture by a particular religious community. The word “canon” comes from the Greek “κανών”, meaning “rule” or “measuring stick”. The term was first coined by Christians,[2] but the idea is found in Jewish sources. The internal wording of the text can also be specified, for example the Masoretic Text is the canonical text for Judaism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon The canons listed below are usually considered “closed” (i.e., books cannot be added or removed),[3] reflecting a belief that public revelation has ended and thus the inspired texts may be gathered into a complete and authoritative canon.[4] By contrast, an “open canon” permits the addition of books through the process of continuous revelation. Here is just a few: 2 Jewish canon 3 Samaritan canon 4 Christian canons 4.1 Marcion's Canon 4.2 Earliest Christian communities 4.3 Apostolic Fathers 4.4 Alexandrian Fathers 4.5 Latin Fathers 4.6 Ethiopian and Syriac Churches 4.7 Luther's canon

bod

so the Koran is the accepted canon from all Muslims right ?

but not approved by the Jews and Christians as being inspired by God Jehovah ,right ? yes

so it is impossible for a Muslim to render a worship that would approve by him,right ? yes

so this mean that those two gods I mean the god of the Koran and the God of the bible are very different,

I do agree to that ,

Pierre

[Ed J]

The evidence is quite clear BD, islam is the spirit of antichrist…

Daniel 11:37-39 (1)Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, (2)nor the desire of women,
(3)nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 (4)But in his estate shall he
honor the God of forces: (5)and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold,
and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most
strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory:
and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

This can only be the prophet of islam (Rev.13:11,18)
and his god (Rev.12:3,9); wake-up BD! (Eph.5:14)

1. YHVH, the God of our fathers, do they disregard.
2. The desire of women is Women have no rights.
3. YHVH, they disregard; and follow a fake god.
4. Who is the god of forces, islam of course.
5. And who do muslims build mosques to?
6. When were the prophets over with?
7. Who do they say has no Son?

1 John 2:22 “He is antichrist, (7)that denieth the Father and the Son.”
Luke 16:16 “The law and (6)the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached.
Meaning: God and his Children. (Romans 8:16)

(7)Romans 8:16 The [HolySpirit] itself beareth witness
with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

B'shem
YHVH

[bodhitharta]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2011,01:41)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2011,07:15) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2011,21:23) bod what would you call to be canon ,i am sure you would make the Koran canon ?right ? Pierre The word canon simply means authorized; recognized; accepted so obviously the Glorious Quran is recognized and accepted even if you dislike it what do you think “Canon” means A biblical canon, or canon of scripture,[1] is a list of books considered to be authoritative as scripture by a particular religious community. The word “canon” comes from the Greek “κανών”, meaning “rule” or “measuring stick”. The term was first coined by Christians,[2] but the idea is found in Jewish sources. The internal wording of the text can also be specified, for example the Masoretic Text is the canonical text for Judaism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon The canons listed below are usually considered “closed” (i.e., books cannot be added or removed),[3] reflecting a belief that public revelation has ended and thus the inspired texts may be gathered into a complete and authoritative canon.[4] By contrast, an “open canon” permits the addition of books through the process of continuous revelation. Here is just a few: 2 Jewish canon 3 Samaritan canon 4 Christian canons 4.1 Marcion's Canon 4.2 Earliest Christian communities 4.3 Apostolic Fathers 4.4 Alexandrian Fathers 4.5 Latin Fathers 4.6 Ethiopian and Syriac Churches 4.7 Luther's canon bod so the Koran is the accepted canon from all Muslims right ? but not approved by the Jews and Christians as being inspired by God Jehovah ,right ? yes so it is impossible for a Muslim to render a worship that would approve by him,right ? yes so this mean that those two gods I mean the god of the Koran and the God of the bible are very different, I do agree to that , Pierre

The Jews DO NOT approve of the NT scriptures at all and it is not canonized Jewish literature so do the Jews have a different God than Christians? Of course not!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,14:27)

The evidence is quite clear BD, islam is the spirit of antichrist… Daniel 11:37-39 (1)Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, (2)nor the desire of women, (3)nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 (4)But in his estate shall he honor the God of forces: (5)and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. This can only be the prophet of islam (Rev.13:11,18) and his god (Rev.12:3,9); wake-up BD! (Eph.5:14) 1. YHVH, the God of our fathers, do they disregard. 2. The desire of women is Women have no rights. 3. YHVH, they disregard; and follow a fake god. 4. Who is the god of forces, islam of course. 5. And who do muslims build mosques to? 6. When were the prophets over with? 7. Who do they say has no Son? 1 John 2:22 “He is antichrist, (7)that denieth the Father and the Son.” Luke 16:16 “The law and (6)the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached. Meaning: God and his Children. (Romans 8:16) (7)Romans 8:16 The [HolySpirit] itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. B'shem YHVH

At least now you are trying to have an actual argument accept it is immediately flawed

Quote

Daniel 11:37-39 (1)Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers

Or were ye present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons: What will ye worship after me? They said: We shall worship thy god, the god of thy fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, One Allah, and unto Him we have surrendered.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #133)

This disproves your entire argument

Quote

(3)[/b]nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Did you know that Muhammad is only directly mentioned by name 4 times in the entire Quran and Jesus is mentioned about 28 times that's not even including the word Christ so I would say that Muhammad was hardly magnifying himself. Not to mention I doubt if you bow and pray 5 times or more a day completely prostate and humble.

Quote

When were the prophets over with?

This was an interesting thing you said here because if John was the last Prophet then Jesus couldn't be a prophet nor could the John of revelation which is not John the baptist so do you say that Jesus and John of revelation were not prophets?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,14:27)

The evidence is quite clear BD, islam is the spirit of antichrist…

By the way is Judaism the spirit of the antichrist since they completely reject Jesus? And who is this scripture talking about here:

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Muhammad wasn't even born yet or here:

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Don't all Muslims confess that Jesus came in the flesh and is Christ, of course therefore the cannot qualify as antichrist

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

So who are these deceivers that confess Jesus has not come in the flesh? It can't be Islam

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
( سورة الزخرف , Az-Zukhruf, Chapter #43, Verse #61)

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #46)

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #87)

Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)

[Ed J]

Hi BD, Jews know God is their father, but muslims don't (Gal. 1:8 / 2Cor.11:14)!

Romans 2:9-13 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,
of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every
man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no
respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also
perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

B'shem
YHVH

[terraricca]

bod

Quote

Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)

but the Koran was not their so they copy the Christians writtrn gospel, and this is 63 years latter,

the Koran is the fake book

Pierre

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,18:51)

Hi BD, Jews know God is their father, but muslims don't (Gal. 1:8 / 2Cor.11:14)! Romans 2:9-13 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. B'shem YHVH

Romans 11 For there is no respect of persons with God

(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #18)

ED what do you think “The Children of Israel” means? Is God “Israel”?

You take metaphors and take them literally Is Jesus the Son of David literally or Metaphorically?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2011,19:19)

bod Quote Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.   (  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45) but the Koran was not their so they copy the Christians writtrn gospel, and this is 63 years latter, the Koran is the fake book Pierre

God and the angels were there so need to Copy it is a revelation given to someone who spoke a different language

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2011,04:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,18:51) Hi BD, Jews know God is their father, but muslims don't (Gal. 1:8 / 2Cor.11:14)! Romans 2:9-13 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. B'shem YHVH Romans 11 For there is no respect of persons with God (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”   (  سورة المائدة  , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #18) ED what do you think “The Children of Israel” means? Is God “Israel”? You take metaphors and take them literally Is Jesus the Son of David literally or Metaphorically?

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2011,04:49)

(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah

Hi BD, NO-ONE says this, not even the muslims!

We are the children of YHVH   …not some fake god of the muslims! (Daniel 11:37-39 Jer.10:10:11)

Jer.10:10:11 [the LORD JEHOVAH] is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king:
at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth,
even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

B'shem (in the Name of)
YHVH (the everlasting God)

[Ed J]

Hi BD,

Why don't you drop the 'book of fraud,' it is only confusing you!

B'shem
YHVH

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,05:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2011,04:49) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,18:51) Hi BD, Jews know God is their father, but muslims don't (Gal. 1:8 / 2Cor.11:14)! Romans 2:9-13 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. B'shem YHVH Romans 11 For there is no respect of persons with God (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”   (  سورة المائدة  , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #18) ED what do you think “The Children of Israel” means? Is God “Israel”? You take metaphors and take them literally Is Jesus the Son of David literally or Metaphorically? Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2011,04:49) (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah Hi BD, NO-ONE says this, not even the muslims! We are the children of YHVH   …not some fake god of the muslims! (Daniel 11:37-39 Jer.10:10:11) Jer.10:10:11 [the LORD JEHOVAH] is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. 11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. B'shem (in the Name of) YHVH (the everlasting God)

You continueto be Bias and prejudice towards LANGUAGE you just made a statement about being sons of God or children of God IN ARAB IT TRANSLATES TO SONS OF ALLAH OR CHILDREN OF ALLAH and Christians and Jews who speak Arabic say that and if someone else spoke arabic and was explaining to you what they say they would say it in the language they speak. If you want to play like that why do you EVER use the word “God” Jesus would have never seen or heard that German based word your simply confused and I am really trying to help you but you have to stop being so contentous

Guess what if I was spanish it would be “Hijo de Dios” Aren't you a Son of Dios

Don't you worship Shangdi (God Most High in chinese) or do you only think God recognizes English and Hebrew?

[Author]

Posts