- This topic is empty.
- Posts
I have found that people will go out of their way to be unreasonable just to feel vindicated instead of being reasonable to become justified for what they believe through honest discussion
I have not only found that to be true, but am many times very upset by it.
If one's understanding is SOOOOOO right, then why would that one be SOOOOOO obstinate when it comes to answering simple questions and defending their understanding scripturally?
Bod and Mike, there is truth to be found in all three of the Abrahamic Religions, the key though is Jesus.
Got back to what I used to believe, its good too.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2011,08:17)
I have found that people will go out of their way to be unreasonable just to feel vindicated instead of being reasonable to become justified for what they believe through honest discussion
Hi BD,I concur! …glad to see you're back!
Your friend,
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI ask then is it reasonable to suggest that there is more than ONE GOD when we say that we believe what God says “There is no other God besides ME” and yet we see people that dislike Islam assuming that there is a different God but what other God could there be? Granted there can be MANY understandings of God but not many gods.
Hi BD,
Who is the deceiver?
You're forgetting that satan has masqueraded as (Gabriel) an angel of light (Gal.1:8),
and his ministers also masquerade as children of righteousness. (2Cor.11:14-15)
“The Bible” says you shall know them by their fruits. (Matt.7:20 / 1John2:22)
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (1John 2:22)
The religion of islam denies both the father and the son!B'shem
YHVHBod,
While I agree that there is one God, and there can be “MANY” understandings on the different aspects of God (an infinite number of them), however there can only be one over-all understanding OF God. Truth is absolute and not subject to different interpretations.My opinion – Wm
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2011,20:21) I ask then is it reasonable to suggest that there is more than ONE GOD when we say that we believe what God says “There is no other God besides ME” and yet we see people that dislike Islam assuming that there is a different God but what other God could there be? Granted there can be MANY understandings of God but not many gods.
bodI disagree with you ,
their is only one God ,and father ,one son Jesus Christ ,one book scriptures written by Gods chosen persons ,and guided by his will of truth ,
their is no other ,salvation comes from the jews if you like it or not
the question is not what is there ? and the many religion ? or believes ?
there is only one that is the truth and it is in scriptures the word of God ,end no other ..
Pierre
Hi Bod. There is only one God, so either Jesus is that one God, or Jesus is the Son of that one God. The Bible says Jesus is the Son of that one God.
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2011,14:29) Hi BD, Who is the deceiver?
You're forgetting that satan has masqueraded as (Gabriel) an angel of light (Gal.1:8),
and his ministers also masquerade as children of righteousness. (2Cor.11:14-15)
“The Bible” says you shall know them by their fruits. (Matt.7:20 / 1John2:22)
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (1John 2:22)
The religion of islam denies both the father and the son!B'shem
YHVH
Okay lets review your claim reasonably. Does the bible assert that Satan masqueraded as “Gabriel” if you assume that, then a person could assume that Satan had masqueraded as Gabriel when he came to Mary, there is nothing in the Bible that says that Satan can imitate an Arch angel the Bible says that Satan can masquerade as an angel of light and what does that mean?Gal. 1:6 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Isn't Paul talking about an event that he said was already occuring and not some future event? This is not some fortelling of events as you are using it to be and here is also more evidence of that
2 Corinthians -12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Once again Paul is asserting this in a present context and not a fortelling and what Muslim disguises themself to be an apostle of Christ so these deceivers Paul mentions are those who claim to be fellow converted Christians not some other group he is directly talking about the Jews who want to burden or persecute the gentiles
1.Revelation 2:9
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty ( but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.2.Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you.And the proof
John 8-42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Once again this is clear evidence whom the material is speaking about i.e unconverted Jews or Jews that say they are converted but restrict or burden the gentiles as if they are superior to them
Acts 14:2
But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.Now this is the fact:
Romans 3:29
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,It is reasonable to conclude that this teaches us that it is this SPECIAL ownership of “our God” that is the deception for God is God of ALL
In regards to antichrist what does ANTI-CHRIST mean?
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.So to be antichrist you have to deny that Jesus is Christ:
Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)According to the Bible this Quran then cannot qualify as antichrist
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 21 2011,14:30) Bod,
While I agree that there is one God, and there can be “MANY” understandings on the different aspects of God (an infinite number of them), however there can only be one over-all understanding OF God. Truth is absolute and not subject to different interpretations.My opinion – Wm
Well, we agree that there is One God-This is absolutely what Islam is in a nut shell
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you.
James 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbour?
Muslim=to submit yourself to God
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,02:47)
Okay lets review your claim reasonably. Does the bible assert that Satan masqueraded as “Gabriel” if you assume that, then (1)a person could assume that Satan had masqueraded as Gabriel when he came to Mary, (2)there is nothing in the Bible that says that Satan can imitate an Arch angelthe Bible says that Satan can masquerade as an angel of light and what does that mean?
Hi BD,Your comparing apples and oranges.
you do believe that this Gabriel's prophecy came true; correct? <– Please answer this questionIs Jesus not called the Son of the Highest? <– And also please answer this question
And the angel(Gabriel) said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him
the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. (Luke 1:30-33)2) FALSE, the bible makes no such distinction! Read 2Cor.11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
B'shem
YHVHQuote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2011,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2011,20:21) I ask then is it reasonable to suggest that there is more than ONE GOD when we say that we believe what God says “There is no other God besides ME” and yet we see people that dislike Islam assuming that there is a different God but what other God could there be? Granted there can be MANY understandings of God but not many gods.
bodI disagree with you ,
their is only one God ,and father ,one son Jesus Christ ,one book scriptures written by Gods chosen persons ,and guided by his will of truth ,
their is no other ,salvation comes from the jews if you like it or not
the question is not what is there ? and the many religion ? or believes ?
there is only one that is the truth and it is in scriptures the word of God ,end no other ..
Pierre
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.what does this mean?
Was Abraham, Isaac or Jacob a Jew?
Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah. Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah. but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #140)Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah.s (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #67)Now regarding the Jews themselves it is written
John 4-19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This states that the Jews knew of and worshipped The ONE and ONLY GOD and this same God was known before the Jews existed as in the days of Noah and starting with Adam now which of these were Jews?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,02:47) Gal. 1:6 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. (1)Isn't Paul talking about an event that he said was already occuring and not some future event? (2)This is not some fortelling of events as you are using it to be…
Hi BD,1) Are you limiting satan's influence to only one point in time?
2) Speculation, based on nothing more than preconceived ideas of truth.B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,02:47) (1)In regards to antichrist what does ANTI-CHRIST mean? 1 John 2:22
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.(2)So to be antichrist you have to deny that Jesus is Christ:
Hi BD,1) “Instead of” or “in denial of” Christ.
2) Read the text, that would be 'a liar'; the next part describes the spirit of antichrist;
you have to deny the Father(HolySpirit) and the Son(Jesus Christ),
and that is exactly what the spirit of antichrist teaches!B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,02:47)
According to the Bible this Quran then cannot qualify as antichrist
Hi BD,As we said before, so say I now again, If any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal.1:9)
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,02:47)
Okay lets review your claim reasonably. Does the bible assert that Satan masqueraded as “Gabriel” if you assume that, then (1)a person could assume that Satan had masqueraded as Gabriel when he came to Mary, (2)there is nothing in the Bible that says that Satan can imitate an Arch angelthe Bible says that Satan can masquerade as an angel of light and what does that mean?Quote Hi BD, Your comparing apples and oranges.
you do believe that this Gabriel's prophecy came true; correct? <– Please answer this questionIs Jesus not called the Son of the Highest? <– And also please answer this question
And the angel(Gabriel) said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him
the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. (Luke 1:30-33)You proved my point because the above is true it would be unreasonable to suggest that Satan could or would masquerade himself as Gabriel
Quote 2) FALSE, the bible makes no such distinction! Read 2Cor.11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. You are correct no distinction is made
Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.Say: Whoever is an enemy to gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #97)Now which one are you claiming to be Satan here Gabriel or Allah? Because it clearly says that this Gabriel was acting according to the will of Allah.
Also in the Quran it isn't saying that Gabriel came to Muhammad with the claim that he is Gabriel it simply says Gabriel is the one who brings down the revelation and there is no distinction.
So is this the same Gabriel the one below:
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
17 She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18 She said: “I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah.”
19 He said: “Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
20 She said: “How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?”
21 He said: “So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed.”Does that describe Gabriel? Did Gabriel make the announcement of Jesus coming into the world?
Kaf. Ha. Ya. 'Ain. Sad.
2 (This is) a recital of the Mercy of thy Lord to His servant Zakariya.
3 Behold! he cried to his Lord in secret,
4 Praying: “O my Lord! infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey: but never am I unblest, O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee!
5 “Now I fear (what) my relatives (and colleagues) (will do) after me: but my wife is barren: so give me an heir as from Thyself,-
6 “(One that) will (truly) represent me, and represent the posterity of Jacob; and make him, O my Lord! one with whom Thou art well-pleased!”
7 (His prayer was answered): “O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son: His name shall be Yahya: on none by that name have We conferred distinction before.”
8 He said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren and I have grown quite decrepit from old age?”
9 He said: “So (it will be) thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: I did indeed create thee before, when thou hadst been nothing!'”
10 (Zakariya) said: “O my Lord! give me a Sign.” “Thy Sign,” was the answer, “Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb.”
11 So Zakariya came out to his people from him chamber: He told them by signs to celebrate Allah.s praises in the morning and in the evening.
12 (To his son came the command): “O Yahya! take hold of the Book with might”: and We gave him Wisdom even as a youth,
13 And piety (for all creatures) as from Us, and purity: He was devout,
14 And kind to his parents, and he was not overbearing or rebellious.
15 So Peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)!Is this story of John the baptist coming into the world describe Gabriel with the announcement again?
3It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
5THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.
8And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
9According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.
10And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.
11And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
12And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, an
d the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.18And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
So once again is your assertion reasonable or not and if so why?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:16) Quote 1) Are you limiting satan's influence to only one point in time? No, just the scope of the context it is not reasonable to expand a context beyond its intended meaning
Quote 2) Speculation, based on nothing more than preconceived ideas of truth. “there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ”
Can you show me how this is referring in any way to a future context?
If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also:
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:44) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:11)
Hi BD,Your comparing apples and oranges.
you do believe that this Gabriel's prophecy came true; correct? <– Please answer this questionIs Jesus not called the Son of the Highest? <– And also please answer this question
And the angel(Gabriel) said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him
the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. (Luke 1:30-33)
You proved my point because the above is true it would be unreasonable to suggest that Satan could or would masquerade himself as Gabriel
Hi BD,Your logic is equivalent to showing someone a real $100.00 bill,
and then saying that this proves there are no counterfeits.Will you please answer the two questions I posed to you?
B'shem
YHVH
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
