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WJ……i agree with you also there is (NO) secret rapture, Jesus was enfranchising , the suddenness of His return, as lighting flashes in the east and shines unto the west , a sudden event, as when Noah interred the Arch and they knew not until the flood came and took them away. Most will be taken by surprise, He told us to sit with our lions girted , another word in modern terms, our bags packed ready to go. Like we are waiting for the cab. IMO But we are given some advanced incite , ” for the powers of heaven will be shaken (thats the gravitational pulls that lock the planets together) , and of course that will cause our oceans to produce giant waves, “the seas a roaring and mens Hearts failing for the fear of that thing coming on the earth”. The earth will go two and fro like a drunkard. It will be a celestial event IMO, “but when you see THESE things Coming on the earth look up for your redemption draw near”. WE are not left without warning. We are approaching that time, IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Hi Georg:
If the scripture in Thesalonians relative to the catching away, is to be interpreted the way you are saying what about the following scripture:
Quote 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Love in Christ,
MartyIrene……..Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
You can't anticipate when it will strike it is a sudden event and catches people by surprise.
peace and love to you and Gerog…………….gene
Quote (Gene @ May 07 2009,11:58) Irene……..Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. You can't anticipate when it will strike it is a sudden event and catches people by surprise.
peace and love to you and Gerog…………….gene
Have you ever watched the weather channel? storms usually come from the west, north-west, or south-west.
If you were to replace the word “lightning” with the word “shining”, it would make sense.Quote (942767 @ May 07 2009,11:33) Hi Georg: If the scripture in Thesalonians relative to the catching away, is to be interpreted the way you are saying what about the following scripture:
Quote 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Love in Christ,
Marty
What Paul is saying is, not all will be dead, sleeping in their graves, when Jesus returns; but all “saints”, not everybody, will be changed.
That change however will come at the death of the individual saint, those that have been found worthy, not at the time of Christs return; that is why Paul said, “we which are alive and REMAIN “shall be” caught up together with them”.
Christs return will not be noticed by any human eye.
Every business has a special now and then to get people into their store, “Christian” churches promise you, you will go to heaven if you come to church.
The Catholic church says, for every $5.00 we cratch off one sin, like I said, every business has it's catch.Hi Georg:
What about the following scripture in light of your interpretation?
Quote
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.Love in Christ,
MartyWhen Jesus ascended to heaven, the apostles stared after him till a cloud hid him from their sight. An angel then told them, he will return in like manner. To come in a cloud, or with clouds is to say, he will be hid from our view. Every eye will see him is not meant literal. have you ever said in a conversation, oh, I see? Paul saw Jesus for just a moment, and it blinded him. Jesus is no longer just a spirit being, he is a divine, glorified spirit being, his countenance shines as the sun in full strength.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength
Quote (Cindy @ May 08 2009,14:57) When Jesus ascended to heaven, the apostles stared after him till a cloud hid him from their sight. An angel then told them, he will return in like manner. To come in a cloud, or with clouds is to say, he will be hid from our view. Every eye will see him is not meant literal. have you ever said in a conversation, oh, I see? Paul saw Jesus for just a moment, and it blinded him. Jesus is no longer just a spirit being, he is a divine, glorified spirit being, his countenance shines as the sun in full strength. Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength
Hi Georg:The scripture states that he is coming with the clouds not in the clouds(hidden from view in them), and it clearly states that every eye will see him.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
In an conversation have you ever said, oh I see?
Every eye will see him with the eye of understanding.
You recall what happened to Paul on his way to Damascus, when Jesus appeared to him? it blinded him; why?Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
No human being will see Jesus, he is not only spirit, he is a glorified spirit being. Did he not say when he returns he will come in all of his glory? that is his glory, shining brighter then the sun.
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 14 2009,11:31) Marty In an conversation have you ever said, oh I see?
Every eye will see him with the eye of understanding.
You recall what happened to Paul on his way to Damascus, when Jesus appeared to him? it blinded him; why?Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
No human being will see Jesus, he is not only spirit, he is a glorified spirit being. Did he not say when he returns he will come in all of his glory? that is his glory, shining brighter then the sun.
Georg
Hi Georg:What about the following scriptures:
Quote Phl 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phl 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himselfQuote 1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.Quote 1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
My foot notes explain “our conversation” to mean, “our citizenship” is in heaven.
In Phl. 3:21 Paul is referring only to those that would be in the first resurrection.
John in 3:1,2 is agreeing with what Paul said, only those resurrected as spirit beings will see Jesus in all his glory.
1 Cor. 15:42, when you die, you will be buried (sown), were your body will decay (corrupt).
v. 43, Those that have been found worthy to be in the first resurrection, will be raised with a spirit body, a much more glorious body then the one you had before, and a more powerful body, as Paul explains in verse 44. He also says, there will be spiritual body's, and there will be natural body's, flesh and blood.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 14 2009,16:35) Marty My foot notes explain “our conversation” to mean, “our citizenship” is in heaven.
In Phl. 3:21 Paul is referring only to those that would be in the first resurrection.
John in 3:1,2 is agreeing with what Paul said, only those resurrected as spirit beings will see Jesus in all his glory.
1 Cor. 15:42, when you die, you will be buried (sown), were your body will decay (corrupt).
v. 43, Those that have been found worthy to be in the first resurrection, will be raised with a spirit body, a much more glorious body then the one you had before, and a more powerful body, as Paul explains in verse 44. He also says, there will be spiritual body's, and there will be natural body's, flesh and blood.Georg
Hi Georg;My understanding is that all who will be saved, the dead in Christ, and those in Christ who are alive at his coming for the church will receive a spiritual body.
Not all will be in authority as judges. But it is obvious that part of what will be taking place in the millenium is that those who are judges along with Jesus will be judging someone.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
Have you ever wondered what the millennium is for?
If all the dead are resurrected after the millennium and judged; what would be going on during the 1000 years?
You know, not all will become spirit beings.Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world,…
That is the spirit world; and in another place.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
And by what works would you say are the dead judged by?
I had ask Nick this question several times, but he refuses to answer.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ May 16 2009,02:16) Marty Have you ever wondered what the millennium is for?
If all the dead are resurrected after the millennium and judged; what would be going on during the 1000 years?
You know, not all will become spirit beings.Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world,…
That is the spirit world; and in another place.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
And by what works would you say are the dead judged by?
I had ask Nick this question several times, but he refuses to answer.Georg
Hi Georg:What makes a man worthy of the first resurrection from the dead is that they are part of the body of Christ. Jesus is just explaining to the Saducees in these scriptures that you partially quote in Luke 20 that there are no marriages in heaven.
And then you quote Matthew 22:14. I will quote it in context:
Quote Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.Matt 22:14 is referring to that man in the church who doesn't have a wedding garment on he has been called but is not chosen because he has not repented.
The dead meaning those who die in their sins are judged according to their works which is the life that they have lived in this earthly body. The severity of the punishment will be according to the life that they lived. Like this:
Quote Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.Marty
This is a parable, Jesus is saying that no one can come to the wedding by his own righteousness.
The wedding garment symbolizes Christs righteousness, and the wedding itself is only for the first resurrection.Quote
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.These scriptures are for our time, they speak of the return of Christ. The “servant” in this parable are those that call themselves “servants of God”, ministers. The beating of male and female servants is not meant literal, but spiritual; by not teaching the truth, and behaving like the unbelievers.
The Lord's coming will not be noticed with the natural eye, therefor these servants will be caught of guard. The fact that these servants knew the will of the Lord, they read the bible daily, but did not accordingly, will be punished severely, those that were ignorant to the truth will be punished less, but still be punished because they neglected to inform themselves.Georg
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