- This topic has 302 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. “Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “ Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water,…
Whether this verse is wrong or right, the description fits you Adam.
I think that would be a big name for me after getting “Skeptic”.
What is the scientific range of ‘near’ for an eternal God where one day is a thousand years?
And understand that the prophecies are many and would span a range too.
The revelation only needed to start in a near time.
Ad 70 would be considered quite near but the message to the seven churches was relevant there and then.
A plan can start ‘near’ so to speak and be fulfilled much later.
I too ask you what is the scientific definition of “Near”? Hope it is not Thousand or Two thousand years as quoted by you.
Christianity wanted to save the writers of the NT from failure of these predictions and tried cover up by quoting a Day=1000 years. What is the meaning of such predictions which repeatedly claimed that the time was near, short and at hand? Please read the following verses again;
1. “And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. But whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes” (Matt. 10:22–23, emphasis added).
2. “Jesus said to [the high priest], ‘You have said it yourself [that I am the Christ, the Son of God]; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matt. 26:64, emphasis added).
3. “And this do, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to waken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed” (Rom. 13:11).
4. “The night is almost gone and the day is at hand. Let us therefore lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armour of light” (Rom. 13:12, emphasis added).
5. “For the form of this world is passing away” (1 Cor. 7:31, emphasis added).
6. “Now these things happened to you as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come” (1 Cor. 10:11, emphasis added).
7. “Let your forbearing spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near” (Phil. 4:5, emphasis added).
8. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer” (1 Pet. 4:7, emphasis added).
9. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door” (James 5:8–9, emphasis added).
10. “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour” (1 John 2:18, emphasis added).
11. “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place . . .” (Rev. 1:1, emphasis added).
12. “Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near” (Rev. 1:3, emphasis added).
13. “I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, in order that no one take your crown” (Rev. 3:11).
14. “And he said to me, ‘These words are faithful and true’; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his bondservants the things which must shortly take place” (Rev. 22:6, emphasis added).
15. “And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book” (Rev. 22:7, emphasis added).
16. “And he said to me, ‘Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near” (Rev. 22:10, emphasis added). Compare this verse with Daniel 12:4, where Daniel is told to “seal up the book until the end of time.”
17. “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done” (Rev. 22:12, emphasis added; cf. Matt. 16:27).
18. “He who testifies to these things says, ‘Yes I am coming quickly.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus” (Rev. 22:20, emphasis added).
These passages and many others like them tell us that a significant eschatological events were to occur in the lifetime of those who heard and read the prophecies. How quickly was this “coming” of Jesus and the so called end of time and the age? was it for 40 years or 100 years or 2000 years or for no end of time?
To all……Rev 17; 8…..tells us who the Beast is, he is Satan, and at the time of this prophesy he is still in the bottomless pit, where he was placed at the beginning of the Sixth world ruling power , the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s, Satan has not yet been released in the time of that Prophesy, but shall be released latter and heal the deadly wound the Sixth Kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s inflected on her and Satan, (remember what Daniel said) that a rock from heaven would strike the Fifth Babylon kingdom , the one that has the feet of iron and clay, and cause the five Babylon kingdoms to collapse?
That lasts for one thousand years, and at the end of the Thousand years Satan is released from the bottomless pit, and goes out to heal the deadly wound inflicted on the Fifth Babylon kingdom, Satan causes the Babylonian Kingdom to rise again as the Seventh world ruling kingdom, Just as the kingdoms of this world are now, the kingdoms of Satan, so will the Seventh Kingdom of this world be also, that is what is meant by the “deadly wound was healed “.
Rev 17: 10 …..gives us the timeline and sets the dates, we haven’t even come, to the world ruling Sixth Kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s yet, we are still under the Fifth Babylonian world ruling kingdom of Satan, the Babylon type of kingdoms, Which is “carried” by SATAN itself.
Satan haven’t even been placed in the bottomless pit yet, he will be soon, because we are at the very end of the Fifth Babylonian Satanic ruling system and Satan who “CARRIES” her, “BABYLON” HE IS, about to be placed IN THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, and chained for a thousand years,So he cannot influence the nations for a thousand years, and then will be released for a short time 3 1/2 years, and the go into Perdition. Just as it says.
AS I HAVE SAID BEFOR THIS TIME PERIOD TAKES PLACE “AFTER” THE REGIN OF JESUS AND THE SAINT’S ON THIS EARTH.
Unless you understand Rev 17 correctly you cannot see or understand the timeline properly, no matter how you try.
peace and love to you all and yours……….gene
In Daniel chapter 2, we see that the head of Gold is explicitly identified as King Nebuchadnezzar, despite the empire having numerous kings and dynasties. And according to Revelation, we are told that ‘one is’ which could have been Domitian. Personally I do not know if the kings are important as opposed to the kingdoms they represented.
they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come
I hold the view that it is seven empires. They all exist around the Great Sea and persecute the Jews in one form or another. There has been a continuous succession of empires in that area.
Yes book of Daniel is talking about Empires as there are Four different beasts but the book of Revelation is talking about only one beast. And Revelation Chapter 17 certainly talking about Kings not Empires as you wrongly interpret it. The context of the beast is the one to understand for the Empire behind it’s rule. As John was mentioning that the beast was, and is not and is to come. Rev 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction.
And Rev 17:9-11
9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; also, they are seven kings, 10 of whom five have fallen, one is living, and the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.
As I mentioned in my earlier posts the time period and the context of the book is so much important understand the logic behind understanding the beast of Rev 17.
Hope I am clear.
To all……Rev 17; 8…..tells us who the Beast is, he is Satan, and at the time of this prophesy he is still in the bottomless pit, where he was placed at the beginning of the Sixth world ruling power , the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s, Satan has not yet been released in the time of that Prophesy, but shall be released latter and heal the deadly wound the Sixth Kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s inflected on her and Satan, (remember what Daniel said) that a rock from heaven would strike the Fifth Babylon kingdom , the one that has the feet of iron and clay, and cause the five Babylon kingdoms to collapse?
Hi brother Gene, you are completely out of synch with the book of revelation as you are equating the beast with the Dragon (the Satan). In fact the Dragan gives the power to the beast in Revelation 13 and is not himself the beast as per Rev 13:4
They worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
And Rev 19:19-20
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against the rider on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
Now please read with Rev 20:2
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
And also Rev 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
So it’s crystal clear that the beast is different from the Dragon, the Devil or the Satan as per the book of Revelation.
Hope this will clear your misconceptions on Revelation 17
Hi Gadam
Hi brother Gene, you are completely out of synch with the book of revelation as you are equating the beast with the Dragon (the Satan). In fact the Dragan gives the power to the beast in Revelation 13 and is not himself the beast as per Rev 13:4
Thank you for supporting this fact which Gene wrongly denies.
The Harlot Riding the Seven-Headed Beast (Rev 17:1–8)...continued
John’s satirical portrait of the great city works in a way. Instead of using a beautiful and dignified lady as its emblem, John pictures it as a debauched courtesan. Where one might wish to find a noble exemplar of virtue, she reels along in a drunken stupor. Instead of sitting astride an elegant steed, the harlot clings to the back of an outrageous seven-headed beast. In her hand she raises a golden cup that one would expect to be filled with the finest wine, but John tells his readers that it actually contains sewage of the vilest kind. The pretentious lady is in fact a contemptible buffoon. To make sure that readers can identify her, John writes the name “Babylon the Great” across her forehead, as a modern artist might do in a political cartoon.
The portrait of the harlot draws on a wealth of stock imagery. In the Old Testament, Israel’s relationship to God was compared to a marriage in which God was the husband and Israel was the bride. By worshiping other gods, the people violated their marriage covenant with God and assumed the role of a prostitute, who embraced many lovers (Hos. 2:5; Jer. 2:20; 3:1–14; Ezek. 16:36). The unfaithful one might “dress in crimson” and deck herself “with ornaments of gold,” but the prophets warned that it all would be in vain, for in the end her lovers would destroy her (Jer. 4:30), which is the fate of Babylon in Rev. 17:16.
Several ancient cities were described as prostitutes in the Old Testament, because their grandeur and wealth wooed the people of Israel into compromising their exclusive relationship to God. One of the cities that was “seated on many waters” (Rev. 17:1) was Tyre, a city along the Mediterranean coast (Ezek. 27:3). Tyre was derided as a prostitute because of its willingness to do whatever was required to lure clients into its glittering network of sea trade (Isa. 23:17). Nineveh, the capital of Assyria, was built beside the Tigris River. Nineveh could show cruelty toward the nations it conquered, but it was also “the prostitute, gracefully alluring, mistress of sorcery, who enslaves nations through her debaucheries” (Nah. 3:4). King Ahaz of Judah was so taken with Assyrian art that he had an Assyrian-style altar built for the Jerusalem temple, even as he paid the Assyrians for the privilege of being their servant (2 Kings 16:5–16). Memories of “Babylon the great,” the name inscribed on the harlot’s forehead, contribute even more directly to John’s portrait of the city (Rev. 17:5). Built beside the Euphrates River and interlaced by canals, Babylon was enthroned “by mighty waters” (Jer. 51:13), like the harlot in Rev. 17:1. If the harlot held a cup in her hand and made the nations drunk (Rev. 17:2, 4), Jeremiah previously said that Babylon “was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand, making all the earth drunken” with its mind-numbing power (Jer. 51:7; compare Jer. 25:15–16).
Nevertheless, in its run for success, Babylon eventually tripped and fell under divine judgment (Jer. 51:8). The same will be true of the harlot in Revelation. Readers in John’s time would readily have connected Babylon the harlot with Rome, the city set on seven hills (Rev. 17:9), whose power was both cruel and seductive. Babylon destroyed the first Jerusalem temple and Rome destroyed the second temple. The Romans also shed “the blood of the saints and the blood of the witnesses to Jesus” in the ruthless persecutions that took place under Nero and in other sporadic acts of violence (17:6); but that did not mean that all Christians considered Roman rule intolerable. The Roman Empire stretched across “many waters” from Europe to Asia (17:1), and sea trade flourished (18:11–19). Many of “the inhabitants of the earth” (17:2), including some Christians (3:17), became intoxicated with the prosperity that the Romans provided and were seduced into accepting the deification of certain emperors (2:14, 20–22).
John pens a satirical portrait that incorporates Roman symbols, but he caricatures them in order to break the spell with which the great city bewitches the nations. Artistic representations of the goddess Roma, who personified Roman power for the Greek world, sometimes depict her as a noble woman draped in battle dress, reclining on the seven hills of Rome. Her foot stretches out to the Tiber River that flows in front of her, and her left hand is slightly raised so that it rests on the top of a short sword (Aune, Revelation, 920). In Revelation 17, this dignified lady becomes a debased courtesan. The seven stately hills on which she reclines are transformed into the seven snarling heads of the beast. The woman’s hand no longer holds a sword but a goblet filled with a vile yet intoxicating brew, and her sober expression is transformed into a drunken stare. This mother figure, whose temples were built in the cities of Asia, is pictured as the “mother of whores and of earth’s abominations” (17:5). This, John declares, is what the great city really is.
John’s lampoon of the great harlot was designed to move first-century readers to resist being seduced by the power and wealth of Rome into compromising their loyalties to God, Christ, and the Christian community. The implications of the satire, however, are not confined to the first century. The harlot’s traits are not simply those of Rome but include those of Babylon, Tyre, and Nineveh. By encompassing characteristics from all of these cities, the harlot represents a power that is not limited to one place or to one time. When the harlot’s arrogance, violence, and obsession with luxury are described more fully in Revelation 18, modern readers will find themselves confronting forces that belong not to a forgotten age but to the world that they know…..(taken from the book “Revelation and the End of All Things”)
Hi To all
REVELATION 12
The Woman & the Dragon
https://understanding-daniel-revelation.com/Rev/R-12.html
“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.” Revelation 12:1, 2
Here we see a pure woman, which is a symbol of God’s true people. She is ‘clothed with the sun’; she has on Christ’s robe of righteousness. The ‘moon is under her feet’; she is standing on the promises of the Old Testament, which reflect the light of Jesus. ‘Upon her head a crown of twelve stars’; the twelve apostles of the New Testament.
She was expecting a baby. Down through the ages, the true people of God looked for the coming of Jesus, and longed for this to happen. He was the ‘Desire of Ages’; the ‘Desire of Women’. Old Testament mothers longed to be the one chosen to bear the Messiah.
“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.” Revelation 12:3, 4
Here is an interesting symbol showing that Satan took one third of the angels of heaven, and cast them down with himself, when he fell into sin. It shows us that Satan was just waiting for Jesus to come to earth, so he could try and devour Him.
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.” Revelation 12:5
We can be so glad that the old dragon, Satan, was not able to eat up Jesus. Jesus defeated Satan, and now shares the throne of the universe. The Dragon also is a symbol of the power of Rome, which Satan worked through to try and kill Jesus, even when He was just a baby. This chapter goes back and forth between what the Pure Woman is doing, and what the Cruel Dragon is doing.
1260 DAY/ YEARS
“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” Revelation 12:6Here again we see the 1260 year prophecy. This is so important for us to understand, that Jesus repeated it in the prophecies of Daniel and John, seven different times. This is the terrible time that millions of true believers died for their faith during the Dark Ages of Rome’s persecution. When Satan worked through the power of Rome, it is also called the ‘dragon’ and the ‘serpent’.
“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:7-9.
These verses take us back to the rebellion of Lucifer in heaven, and tell how he was cast out by ‘Michael’, [meaning ‘Who is like God?’] and the scriptures indicate that this is Jesus, when shown in His conflicts with Satan. It also tells us what happened, after Satan had done all he could to hurt and attack Jesus, when He was here on earth, and how he actually got the wicked church leaders, to use the dragon power of Rome to kill Him.
The loyal angels were amazed when they saw the terrible cruelty of Satan in how he treated Jesus. He was proven to be wicked in their eyes forever more. Never again would any of them believe Satan’s lies about God. They had seen what Satan’s ideas really were made of.
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.” Revelation 12:10, 11
These are further thoughts about the final victory of Jesus over Satan. Did you know that when you, or anybody that claims to be a Christian, does selfish, sinful deeds, Satan accuses them to the holy angels and to Jesus? Yes, he says things like: “See there is John or Sue, and they claim to belong to You, and just look how they act. It didn’t do You any good to die for them. They are selfish and sinful and should be destroyed.”
But over in Zechariah 3, we see a story of what Jesus does for His faithful, repenting people. He washes away their past sins with His blood, and He gives them His own clean robe of righteousness. He tells Satan, “I died for Sue and John. I paid with My blood for the sins they did. They are sorry for their sins and have chosen to let Me take those sins away out of their lives, and to be like Me.”
That is how the redeemed overcome Satan, ‘by the blood of the Lamb’. The word of their testimony means they are not ashamed to talk about what Jesus has done for them, and they stand true to His Word.
’They loved not their lives unto the death’. ‘The Death’, here means a martyr’s death. This means that though these people liked to live as much as any of us do, they would not deny Jesus to save their lives. When the judges and church leaders yelled at them, ‘Will you stop believing in the Bible and obey us?’ They said; “No, we will be faithful to the Bible”.
Jesus’ power is what can overcome sin in our lives and His power gives us the courage to stand for the truth; even to ‘the Death’.“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea. for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.” Revelation 12:12, 13.
We truly live in the days when the ‘devil has great wrath’, because he knows that his time is getting shorter every day. His only delight is in cruelty, and seeking to deceive and persecute anyone who truly belongs to Jesus, and seeks to keep His commandments.
“And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.” Revelation 12:14-16
Here we see more details, and another of the 1260 year prophecies. It shows how the True Church had to hide in the wilderness, while the false power ruled the world from Rome. The ‘serpent’, this wicked power, cast out water like a flood to destroy the woman. Time after time huge armies were sent to attack the true believers where they hid in the little-known places of the world, in mountains, and wilderness areas. The ‘floods’ that came out of the serpent’s ‘mouth’ also refer to laws and decrees, poured out from the Roman powers against these true Bible believers.
This is how the ‘earth helped’ her by swallowing up the floods of water; it meant that the wilderness areas allowed at least some of the true people of God to manage to survive the persecution. Also it refers to the opening up of the mostly unpopulated Americas at that time, where many persecuted people were able to flee away from the Roman power, and be safe to practice their true Bible faith. How thrilling to see all this history written down before any of it had happened.
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 12:17
Ever since Satan failed to get Jesus to disobey God’s laws when He was on this earth, he has been shown to be a liar and a murderer. All of heaven and the unfallen worlds are fully convinced that his charges against God’s government are false. They are not fooled by him any more.
But the battle is still going on here; because humans are still fooled by Satan’s lies, and most of them still want to follow him, and enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. Satan has ‘great wrath’, because he knows his days are numbered by the same Holy Power that said to Belshazzar, ‘thou art numbered and found wanting’.
Even so, he wants to destroy as many people as he possibly can. Why doesn’t he just quit? Well, for one thing, he can’t; his own sinful, selfish heart drives him on and on in wickedness and cruelty. His hatred of Jesus and God’s Law, also causes him to seek to hurt the dear Savior by getting people to reject the Plan of Salvation provided for them at such cost. He has ‘great wrath’ against everybody in the world, but especially against a certain group, he is ‘wroth’ super-mad. Who are they?
They are the ‘remnant’ of the pure woman’s seed; ‘Those who keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus’. Down through the ages there have always been at least a small group, somewhere, of true and faithful ones clinging to precious truth from the pure Word of God; clinging to the precious Law of God; clinging to their dear Savior’s promises; trusting in the power of His Blood for victory over every sin. Led by the Holy ‘Spirit of Prophecy’ on and on they have come down the bloodstained path of history.
Paul describes them; “And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” Hebrews 11:37-40
In the last days the ‘remnant’; the last tattered remains of these faithful ones; will stand against the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet. They will be like those who went before them. They will cling to the inspired Word of God. They will trust in the promises and Blood of Jesus. They will stand for truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even if it costs their lives. And they will win by the Blood of the Lamb!
To All…..there are five Babylonian type kingdoms before the return of Jesus, you people keep leaving out one. We are in the Fifth now, right before the return of Jesus. I will list them again as I have many times before here.
1…..the head of Gold………………………Kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar
2…..breast of Silver……………………… Kingdom of Darius and Cyrus
3…..belly and thigh’s of Brass………….kingdom of Alexander the Great
4……legs of Iron …………………………….The Roman Empire , which was destroyed, in, 476 AD
5……feet of Iron and Clay………………The present day ruling Babylonian nations are broken up over many nations. Daniel said the images feet were part of Iron and part of Clay. Then Daniel say , “” thou saw till that a Stone was cut out without hands, which Smote the Image upon it’s FEET , that were of Iron and Clay, and break it in pieces.
That does not describe the stone hitting the Image on the legs , but on the feet of iron and clay. That is describing theses days of the kingdom of Babylon that is still under the rule of SATAN.
The next “world ruling” kingdom will be the Sixth, and it will be ruled by Jesus Christ and the Saint’s.
We are in the very end of the Fifth Babylonian type kingdoms, The next Babylonian Kingdom will not take place until the end of the Sixth world ruling kingdom, it will be the Seventh world ruling kingdom , the Babylonian kingdom whose “deadly wound was healed” by Satan when he is released from the bottomless pit” where he was put at the beginning of the Sixth ruling kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s.If you don’t understand this you simply can’t put the book of Revelations together no matter how hard you try, you simply won’t be able to.
You must understand the are Five Babylonian type Kingdoms that must fall , before Jesus returns and creates the “SIXTH World ruling Kingdom”. Then comes the Seventh and Eighth , world ruling Babylonian kingdoms under the influence of Satan as the first Five were. The Seventh and Eighth, take place at the end of the Sixth kingdom period. The Sixth kingdom period is what John meant when he said Five are fallen, “AND “ONE” “IS”. the one the “IS” is the Sixth kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s . Just that simple,
peace and love to you all and yours………..gene
To All…..there are five Babylonian type kingdoms before the return of Jesus, you people keep leaving out one. We are in the Fifth now, right before the return of Jesus. I will list them again as I have many times before here.
1…..the head of Gold………………………Kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar
2…..breast of Silver……………………… Kingdom of Darius and Cyrus
3…..belly and thigh’s of Brass………….kingdom of Alexander the Great
4……legs of Iron …………………………….The Roman Empire , which was destroyed, in, 476 AD
5……feet of Iron and Clay………………The present day ruling Babylonian nations are broken up over many nations. Daniel said the images feet were part of Iron and part of Clay. Then Daniel say , “” thou saw till that a Stone was cut out without hands, which Smote the Image upon it’s FEET , that were of Iron and Clay, and break it in pieces.
Hi brother Gene, again you are misquoting the book of Daniel. No where this writer talks about Five Kingdoms either in Chap 2 or in Chap 7. Here are few arguments on this;
Eschatological themes
For over two thousand years readers have speculated as to the meaning of the themes running through the Book of Daniel:
The four kingdoms: In Daniel 2 Nebuchadnezzar dreams of a giant statue of four metals identified as symbolising kingdoms, and in Daniel 7 Daniel sees a vision of four beasts from the sea, again identified as kingdoms. In Daniel 8, in keeping with the theme by which kings and kingdoms are symbolised by “horns”, Daniel sees a goat with a single horn replaced by four horns. Secondary symbols are involved with each: the statue is smashed by a mysterious stone which grows into a mountain, and the fourth beast has ten horns and an additional human-like horn, identified as a king. Further imagery includes Daniel 7’s Son of Man (more accurately “one like a son of man), the “holy ones of the Most High,” and the eternal Kingdom of God which will follow the four kingdoms and the “little horn.”
Chronological predictions: Daniel predicts several times the length of time that must elapse until the coming of the Kingdom of God. A prophecy of Jeremiah is reinterpreted so that “70 years” means “70 weeks of years”, and the last half of the last “week” is defined as “a time, times, and half a time,” then as 2,300 “evenings and mornings,” with further numbers of days at the very end of the book. The “anointed one cut off”: Daniel 9 makes two references to an “anointed one,” which has had major implications for Christian eschatology. Daniel 9:25 says: “Until there is an anointed ruler will be seven weeks”; the next verse says: “After the sixty-two weeks the anointed one shall be cut off.” Scholars take these as references to the high priest Joshua from the early Persian era and to the high priest Onias III, murdered in the 2nd century, but Christians have taken them both to refer to the death of Christ, which then provides a fixed point for calculating the time to the end of the world.
The “abomination of desolation”: This is mentioned in Daniel 8, 9 and 11. In the New testament this was taken to refer to the eschatological future and the destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14), and later still it was interpreted as the Antichrist.
Martydom and resurrection: Daniel 11 tells how the “wise” lay down their lives as martyrs at the end-time persecution for resurrection into the final kingdom. Daniel 3 (the story of the Fiery Furnace) and Daniel 6 (Daniel in the lions’ den) were read in this light, providing a prototype for Christian martyrdom and salvation through the centuries.
Historical background:
The Book of Daniel originated from a collection of legends circulating in the Jewish community in Babylon and Mesopotamia in the Persian and early Hellenistic periods (5th to 3rd centuries BC), and was later expanded by the visions of chapters 7–12 in the Maccabean era (mid-2nd century).The “four kingdoms” theme appears explicitly in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, and is implicit in the imagery of Daniel 8. Daniel’s concept of four successive world empires is drawn from Greek theories of mythological history. The symbolism of four metals in the statue in chapter 2 is drawn from Persian writings, while the four “beasts from the sea” in chapter 7 reflect Hosea 13:7–8, in which God threatens that he will be to Israel like a lion, a leopard, a bear or a wild beast. The consensus among scholars is that the four beasts of chapter 7, like the metals of chapter 2, symbolise Babylon, Media, Persia and the Seleucid Greeks, with Antiochus IV as the “small horn” that uproots three others (Antiochus usurped the rights of several other claimants to become king).
Daniel 2
In chapter 2, Nebuchadnezzar dreams of a statue made of four different materials, identified as four kingdoms:- Head of gold. Explicitly identified as King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon (v.37–38).
- Chest and arms of silver. Identified as an “inferior” kingdom to follow Nebuchadnezzar (v.39).
- Belly and thighs of bronze. A third kingdom which shall rule over all the earth (v.39).
- Legs of iron with feet of mingled iron and clay. Interpreted as a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, but the feet and toes partly of clay and partly of iron show it shall be a divided kingdom (v. 41).
Daniel 7
In chapter 7, Daniel has a vision of four beasts coming up out of the sea, and is told that they represent four kingdoms:- A beast like a lion with eagle’s wings (v. 4).
- A beast like a bear, raised up on one side, with three ribs between its teeth (v. 5).
- A beast like a leopard with four wings of fowl and four heads (v. 6).
- A fourth beast, with large iron teeth and ten horns (v. 7-8)
This is explained as a fourth kingdom, different from all the other kingdoms; it “will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it” (v. 23). The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom (v. 24). A further horn (the “little horn”) then appears and uproots three of the previous horns: this is explained as a future king.
Daniel 8
In chapter 8 Daniel sees a ram with two horns destroyed by a he-goat with a single horn; the horn breaks and four horns appear, followed once again by the “little horn”.The above clarifies that the Fourth Kingdom is of Greece and the single horn was Alexander the great. The Four horns represent the division of Greece Kingdom among the Four of Alexanders successors. Antiochus IV was the “Little horn” that uproots three others (Antiochus usurped the rights of several other claimants to become king). So there is no Fifth Kingdom of Rome as often misinterpreted by both Jews and Christians.
Gene
You are just up to 476AD, but then you miss the point …
After 476AD (in 538) the pagan Roman Empire was reborn from its ashes with the “holy” Roman Catholic Empire, until 1798 AD (exactly 1260 years, as the prophecy had predicted).
That said papal Rome, symbolized by the IRON and the clay, and which received a mortal wound in 1798, it is still Rome (the iron) with the religious element(clay)
Between 1798 and now, and the Kingdom of God to come, the explanations are in Revelation 12; 13; 17 … etc.THE KINGDOM OF GOD WILL BE THE FIFTH KINGDOM (the little stone that tears all these kingdoms to pieces)
This is a rough cut related to Daniel 2
Possible Early Form of Daniel 2
Because of the nature of the book of Daniel (its mix of Hebrew and Aramaic, its anachronisms, and its apocalyptic flavor), most scholars date it to the Hellenistic era of Israel; usually about 170-164 BC because of the many clear references to Antiochus IV Epiphanes in chapters 8, 9, and 11.But despite this late date for the overall form of Daniel, it is still thought its ‘court tales’ about Daniel go back earlier, when such stories were passed on orally and had variants. In this case, it is speculated the Daniel 2 story may have originally been about four kings of Babylon (the four metals), with the fourth king’s reign being weakened (iron mixed with clay), eventually leading to Babylon’s downfall:
Gold = Nebuchadnezzar (605-562 BC, stated explicitly)
Silver = Amel-Marduk (562-560 BC)
Bronze = Neriglissar (560-556 BC)
Iron = Nabonidus (556-539 BC)mixed with clay = Nabonidus’ coregency with Belshazzar, weakening the kingdom
Here, the statue originally represented all of Babylon, with its destruction by the stone representing the kingdom’s collapse:The stone that became a great mountain could then be understood as a messianic Jewish kingdom or conceivably, in a non-Jewish context, the Persian empire.
Whichever the case may be, this would imply the court tale originated shortly after (or perhaps just before) Persia conquered Babylon, in 538 BC.
The Roman Empire , which was destroyed, in, 476 AD
Gene, know your history. Rome had two legs. You only see one.
So it seems your biggest problem Adam is that Christians were promised a quick second coming. Would that be correct?
ADAM……The reason Daniel prophesied Four “more to come”, He was already in the First one, ADD THEM TOGETHER WHAT DO YOU GET “FIVE” . WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT THE FOUR KINGDOMS TO “COME” HE WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE KINGDOM THAT ALREADY EXISTED. There are five distinct parts of the Body mentioned by Daniel, each flows into the other, the final is the feet, and that makes five parts of the body described in Daniel 2.
There are Many scholar that say there are actually Five kingdoms, Daniel was prophesying about., in fact there are images that show Five, POSTED ON THE INTERNET everywhere.
There is no sign of any kind of the Roman Empire that has existed Since 476 AD , according to every historian that exists, that I know of, please show me one ounce of authority in this present world that Rome has, none exists that I know of and the rest of the whole world knows that also.
Daniel was not talking about religions, he was talking about, “world ruling Kingdoms one following another ” . If you can’t see that he was talking about FIVE in DANIEL 2 , then there is no point in discussing this , because you haven’t even got the start point right yet. So how can Rev 17, make any sense to you? It can’t. People miss the whole thing without understanding , what the “ONE THAT “IS” MEANS , and because of that they miss to timeline, IT IS THE SIXTH, world Ruling Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s, I know that sure because it all fits what Daniel 2 says. To those who can see the truth. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Proclaimer…….Question , does Roman have any influence along the nations today, please tell us, i ow od none at all, no body cares what Rome says or does, they are not a world power at all. As I said the Roman Empires were compels destroyed around 476 AD. ROME WAS SACKED AND BURNT TO THE GROUND BY THE INVADING ARMIES, BOT THE EAST AND THE WEST WERE. EVERY HISTORIAN THE EXISTS KNOWS THAT. So how is it that you don’t believe that, are you one of those false prophets that believes the The Catholic Church represent the Roman Empire , The Roman Catholic Church as “no” power over anything in the world except there followers, and even that is limited, they lost even the little power they had by Napoleon in July 6, 18o9.
All the world ruling Kingdoms had nothing to do with any religions at all, because all religions existed in them all even to this very day. But none of any religion every was a “world” ruling kingdom, to this very day.
peace and love to you and yours…………gene
Proclaimer…….Question , does Roman have any influence along the nations today, please tell us, i ow od none at all, no body cares what Rome says or does, they are not a world power at all. As I said the Roman Empires were compels destroyed around 476 AD. ROME WAS SACKED AND BURNT TO THE GROUND BY THE INVADING ARMIES, BOT THE EAST AND THE WEST WERE. EVERY HISTORIAN THE EXISTS KNOWS THAT. So how is it that you don’t believe that, are you one of those false prophets that believes the The Catholic Church represent the Roman Empire , The Roman Catholic Church as “no” power over anything in the world except there followers, and even that is limited, they lost even the little power they had by Napoleon in July 6, 18o9.
All the world ruling Kingdoms had nothing to do with any religions at all, because all religions existed in them all even to this very day. But none of any religion every was a “world” ruling kingdom, to this very day.
Hi brother Gene, that is a very good assessment on the so called world kingdoms which are no where visible in these post modern days. Yes the present nations are no where connected to any prophetical Kingdoms as claimed by Christendom. Most of the Christians think that the age old Roman Empire will emerge in these last days and the Anti-Christ will rule that Kingdom. This is simply the imagination of these Christians.
I tell you even the book of Daniel no where concerned with the Roman Empire as it was not part of the Daniel’s prophetic visions. The Fourth kingdom was about the Grecian (Greek) kingdom and not the Roman. Please read my post previous posts on this subject for more details.
So it seems your biggest problem Adam is that Christians were promised a quick second coming. Would that be correct?
Hello Proclaimer, that is not my problem but was the crisis of the NT writers which started with Paul. Please study the NT texts carefully with respect to Hebrew Bible you will understand the real problem.
There are Many scholar that say there are actually Five kingdoms, Daniel was prophesying about., in fact there are images that show Five, POSTED ON THE INTERNET everywhere.
Hi brother Gene, yes they are all Christian biased interpretations on the book of Daniel. You should read the critical exegetical commentaries on Daniel and not any Christianised writings. Please check my previous posts on Daniel 2.
Daniel 2
One of the most famous images in the Book of Daniel, and indeed in all of apocalyptic literature, is the statue that Nebuchadnezzar sees in his dream in Daniel chapter 2. This statue has a head of gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. The statue is destroyed when “a stone cut from a mountain” strikes the feet and brings down the statue. Daniel interprets the parts of the statue as a series of kingdoms. Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the might, and the glory. After him will come another kingdom inferior to his, then a third, which will rule over the whole earth. Then there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, which will crush and shatter all these. The iron is mixed with clay, symbolizing intermarriage, but the iron and clay will not hold together. Then finally, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. It will crush the previous kingdoms and will stand forever.
While the kingdoms are not named, the first four are patently to be identified with Babylon, Media, Persia and Greece, since these are the kingdoms that succeed each other throughout the book. Chapters 1-5 are set under Babylonian kings, Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar. Chapter 6 is in the reign of the fictitious “Darius the Mede,” but the last verse refers to the succeeding reign of Cyrus the Persian. Chapter 7 reverts to the reign of Belshazzar, and this is also the setting for chapter 8. Chapter 9 is in the reign of Darius the Mede. Chapter 10 is set under Cyrus of Persia, but the angel Gabriel tells Daniel that his fighting the “prince” or patron angel of Persia, and that after him the “prince of Greece” will come. Chapter 11 begins with a prophecy that there will be three more kings of Persia, but then it continues with a detailed prophecy of the Hellenistic kingdoms, down to the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes of Syria, (175-164 BCE). No Median kingdom ever ruled over Judah. This is why we get the fictitious Darius the Mede in Daniel 6 and again in 11:1. Daniel was evidently drawing on an older schema that was not of Jewish origin.
In Daniel 2, the metals have declining value, a motif paralleled in Hesiod’s Works and Days. In his Works and Days Hesiod describes a sequence of five ages – golden, silver, bronze, a fourth that is not identified with a metal, and iron. The fourth age breaks the pattern of decline and is inserted to accommodate the heroes of Greek legend. Hesiod was evidently adapting a schema of four ages and metals that was already current by the eighth century BCE. The origin of the schema is unknown.
The origin of the four kingdom schema
This four-kingdom schema was not peculiar to the Book of Daniel. The same sequence, but with Assyria rather than Babylon as the first kingdom, is found in the Fourth Sibylline Oracle, a Jewish text, in Greek, that dates to the late first century CE in its present form, but the nucleus of the oracle is probably older. It is also attested in several Roman historians. A fragment of Aemilius Sura, who is otherwise unknown, is preserved by Velleius Paterculus, around the turn of the era:
The Assyrians were the first of all races to hold power, then the Medes, after them the Persians, and then the Macedonians. Then when the two kings, Philip and Antiochus, of Macedonian origin, had been completely conquered, soon after the overthrow of Carthage, the supreme command passed to the Roman people.
In the Jewish texts, the final kingdom is a kingdom of God; in the Roman texts, the final, presumably lasting kingdom, is Rome.
The idea that there was a sequence of world kingdoms, identified as Assyria, Media, and Persia, is as old as Herodotus. In the course of his inquiry as to how the Persians had become lords of Asia, the historian wrote:
“The Assyrians had held the empire of upper Asia for the space of 520 years, when the Medes set the example of revolt from their authority.” Later, “the Medes were brought under the rule of the Persians.” (Herodotus 1.95, 130). In this he claimed to follow “Persian authorities,” and in fact the inclusion of Media reflects a Persian point of view. This sequence is also found in Ktesias, who had been court physician to Artaxerxes II. The sequence Assyria-Media is also found in the Book of Tobit. The suspicion arises that this view of history reflected Persian propaganda, which sought to portray Persia as the heir to the great kingdoms of the ancient Near East. Caution is in order here. The sequence of world empires is not attested in Achaemenid inscriptions and we have no direct evidence that it was part of Persian propaganda.
In an influential essay published in 1940, Joseph Swain argued that the extension of the schema to include Greece must have developed in the context of anti-Hellenistic resistance. Aemilius Sura, quoted above, considered the Second Punic War (218-201 BCE) as the time of the overthrow of Carthage, so Swain reasoned that he must have written before the Third Punic War (149-46 CE). Because he considered Philip, who died in 179 BCE, to mark the end of Macedonia, he must have written before the third Macedonian war (171-68). If this is correct, then the four kingdom schema was known before the book of Daniel was written. Swain supposed that the sequence of world kingdoms including Media became known in Rome in the context of anti-Seleucid propaganda, around the time of the Battle of Magnesia, in 190 BCE, when Rome defeated Antiochus III (the Great). In any case, it seems likely that the sequence of four kingdoms, including Media, was current before the rise of Rome. Another early witness is found in the Fourth Sibylline Oracle. The Sibyl divides history into ten generations and four kingdoms. The Assyrians are said to rule for six generations, the Medes for two, the Persians for one, and the Macedonians in the tenth. A long oracle against Rome follows, out of numerical sequence, bringing the review of history down to the late first century CE. It seems clear, however, that the original oracle either ended with the tenth generation or with a predicted kingdom of God that was to follow it. It was presumably written before the rise of Rome.
In both Jewish and Roman expressions of the four-kingdom schema, the climactic, final, kingdom is not the fourth but the fifth – the kingdom of God in Daniel, Rome in Aemilius Sura. It could easily function subversively, to predict the demise of the fourth kingdom. This is certainly the case in Daniel, more obviously in Daniel 7 than in Daniel 2. The Roman texts, in contrast, are triumphalist, from a Roman perspective. Swain supposed that the sequence had been developed for the purpose of anti-Seleucid propaganda. This is admittedly speculative, but at least it seems clear that it functions as anti-Seleucid propaganda in Daniel 7.
An intriguing parallel to Daniel is found in the Persian Bahman Yasht, or Zand-i Vohuman Yasn. This text survives in Pahlavi, from the ninth century CE. Zands were midrashic elaborations of lost texts from the Avesta, part translation and part commentary. The Avesta is thought to derive from Zoroaster, whose date is controversial but was surely earlier than the Achaemenid period. It was not collected, however, until the Sassanian period (221-642 CE). So while it is clear that the Bahman Yasht is based on old traditions, it is relatively late in its present form.
According to the Bahman Yasht chapter 1, Ahura Mazda showed “the wisdom of all-knowledge to Zoroaster. Through it he saw “the trunk of a tree, on which there were four branches, one of gold, one of silver, one of steel and one of mixed iron.” These are then explained to him as “the four periods which will come” in the millennium of Zoroaster. The same division of metals and periods is found in another Persian, Pahlavi, text, the Denkard, but the periods are identified differently. Daniel and the Bahman Yasht share the vision form, the association of the metals with silver, and a sequence of metals beginning with gold and silver and ending with iron mixed with something. These parallels can hardly be coincidental. Both the Yasht and the Denkard identify the metals with post-Sassanian kings, many centuries later than Daniel. Daniel’s statue provides a more appropriate setting for the metals than the tree of the Bahman Yasht, but the periodization of history is much more at home in Persian than in biblical tradition. It is unlikely that one of these texts depended directly on the other, but they seem to share some common traditions.
In the Bahman Yasht, the period of mixed iron is that of “the ‘divs’ having disheveled hair.” Samuel K. Eddy ingeniously saw here a reference to the Greeks, who are depicted as wild-haired in mosaics and paintings, in contrast to the neatly depicted hair-styles of the Persians. The Yasht would then have been written after the conquests of Alexander, and would have predicted the passing of the Greek, more specifically the Seleucid, kingdom, at the end of the millennium. It would have been updated later, in the post-Sassanian period. The Persian text is problematic, since its date and redaction are uncertain, but it lends some support to the view that Daniel was relying on an historical schema that was used more widely in the Seleucid empire.
In Daniel 2, the king refuses to tell his courtiers the content of his dream. Consequently, the Babylonian wise men are unable to interpret it. Daniel succeeds because it is revealed to him by the Most High God. The emphasis in the chapter is on the superiority of Daniel’s revealed wisdom to that of the Babylonians. The king does not seem to be perturbed by the revelation that is kingdom will be followed by a succession of weaker ones. He falls down and worships Daniel and acknowledges Daniel’s God. It may be that Nebuchadnezzar was not concerned about what might happen in the distant future. It should also be noted that Daniel is not very specific about the nature of the fifth and final kingdom. Since it is set up by the God of heaven, from a stone cut from a mountain (suggesting Mt. Zion), Jewish and later Christian readers assume that it is a Jewish kingdom, but Nebuchadnezzar could well have supposed that it is a Babylonian kingdom – a return to the golden age of his own reign.
There is some limited evidence that Babylonians hoped for a restoration of their dominion after their power had declined. The idea of a definitive lasting kingdom is attested in a text from the sixth century BCE known as the Uruk Prophecy. This text extols a king who “will establish judgments for the land” and restore the shrines of Uruk. The king in question is most probably Nebuchadnezzar. The prophecy, however, does not predict that he will be followed by decline. Rather, “after him his son will arise as king in Uruk and rule the entire world. He will exercise authority and kingship in Uruk and his dynasty will stand forever. The kings of Uruk will exercise authority like the gods.”
Daniel 2 clearly implies that Babylonian power will pass, as indeed will the power of all human kingdoms. Daniel, however, does not present his interpretation in a threatening way. The destruction of pagan kingdoms is still far in the future. We might speak of this as “deferred eschatology.” The power of foreign kingdoms will pass, eventually, but their destruction is not necessarily imminent. For the present, the power of Nebuchadnezzar is conferred on him by God and is presumably part of the divine plan. The stories of Daniel 1-6 assume that Jews can prosper under foreign rule, even in the service of foreign kings. If the four kingdom schema was devised to express resistance to world empires, that purpose is muted here.
Daniel 7
We get a quite different sense of the four kingdoms, however, in Daniel chapter 7. Here we are told that “the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea” (Dan 7:2). Four great beasts come up out of the sea. They are all hybrid creatures, like the fantastic creatures of Babylonian mythology. The first is like a lion, but has eagle’s wings, the second like a bear, and the third like a leopard. The fourth is the most terrifying of all. It has great iron teeth, and it tramples with its feet (probably an allusion to the war elephants used by the Seleucid (Syrian) kings. The fourth beast has ten horns, but then another upstart horn emerges which speaks arrogantly. An angel explains this vision to Daniel. At first, he says that the beasts are four kings that shall arise out of the earth. When Daniel inquires further he is given a fuller account of the fourth beast and the little horn, which rise up against the Most High.
This vision reaches its climax in a judgment scene. An Ancient Figure with white hair appears, evidently the Most High God. Then “one like a son of man” appears on the clouds of heaven and is presented before the figure on the throne. To him is given dominion and glory and kingship. The interpretation, however, says that the kingdom is given to the Holy Ones of the Most High, and then again to “the people of the Holy Ones of the Most High” (Dan 7:27).
The angel’s interpretation does not do justice to the symbolism of the vision. The turbulent sea has a long history in biblical imagery. It is said of Yahweh that “by his power he stilled the sea” (Job 26:12) and that he dried up the sea (Isa 59:10). It is associated with monsters, Rahab (Job 26:12, Isa 51:9) and Leviathan Isa 27:1. Back before the Bible, the personified Sea was a character in Canaanite mythology, known to us from texts found at Ugarit in northern Syria in 1929. Other features of Daniel 7 recall Canaanite mythology too. The most puzzling aspect of Daniel’s vision is that it seems to have two divine figures, the white haired figure on the throne and the “one like a son of man” who comes on the clouds. The white haired figure is obviously the Most High God. Yet elsewhere in the Old Testament, Yahweh is always the one who rides on the clouds (Deut 33:26; Pss 68:5; 104:3 etc.). Having two divine figures would not be a problem in a Canaanite context: the white-headed supreme God is El and the rider of the clouds is Baal. The whole vision evokes a Canaanite myth where the Sea (Yamm) challenges Baal for the kingship, which is conferred by the high god El. Elements of this and other Canaanite myths appear throughout the Old Testament. At the time when Daniel was written (168-164 BCE) it would have been familiar to the people of Jerusalem because the Syrian king Antiochus Epiphanes installed a cult of Baal Shamem (Lord of Heaven) in the Jerusalem temple. Daniel refers to this cult with a derisive pun as “the abomination that makes desolate” (shikkutz meshomem, Dan 8:13; 9:27; 11:31; 12:11).
Daniel appropriates and reinterprets the symbolism of the Canaanite myth. In the Jewish context, the Ancient One is Yahweh, and the rider of the clouds is the archangel Michael, prince of Israel (compare Dan 10:21; 12:1). The four kingdoms, including that of the Greeks and Syrian Seleucids, are beasts that rise from the sea, in open rebellion against the God of Heaven. The Holy Ones are the angelic host, led by Michael. The people of the Holy Ones, who ultimately receive the kingdom, are the Jewish people.
For our present purpose, the importance of this vision is that it shows the four kingdoms that shape human history as forces of rebellion against God. In Daniel 2, in contrast, they were ordained by God, and ran their course peacefully. Daniel 7, however, was written in different circumstances than Daniel 2. It presupposes the attempt by Antiochus IV Epiphanes to suppress the traditional Jewish cult in Jerusalem, as described in 1 Macc 1-2 and 2 Macc 4-6. Consequently, it takes a much more negative view of human history….(taken from Collins Four Kingdoms.)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
