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Gene
The context of the chapter and the following ones (letters to churches) does not refer to the Lord’s day (the day of retribution) but it is simply pointed out that John had his visions on a Sabbath day, which is the true day of the Lord.
It sure is soon if your in that period of time. Of those things coming to pass. We know that it hasn’t happened yet , now has it ? So the only way it could be “soon” if it , were at that time period, it was relating to. That only proves that John was indeed transported in time to the day of the lord.
If you think that John had already transported into the so called timeline “Day of the Lord = 1000 years, how do you interpret this verse Rev 20:4?
Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus[a] and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
ADAM…….He was transported by the Spirit, to the Day of the lord, “in prophesy” a prophet prophesies thing to take place in the future, not at the time he is given the prophetic vision, always.
if we go to “the” (definite article “the” ) then it is speaking of, the day , of the lord, then it has to be when “that” day comes to pass,. RIGHT?. All of revelations, is given in different time frames , from the seven churches , to putting Satan in the bottomless pit, to his release the The reign of Jesus and the Saint’s, etc. all take place at different times, some sooner the others. So the term shortly come to pass v, depends on the time line of events. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Gene
The Lord’s Day
It was the Sabbath day and John had gone off alone to worship his Lord in nature. As he sat thinking on spiritual things and praying, he was given a vision. That is what he means when he says, “I was in the Spirit”.
One of the most important things about understanding prophecy is that you must use the Bible to tell you what the Bible means, you must never guess or put your own ideas in there.if we go to “the” (definite article “the” ) then it is speaking of, the day , of the lord, then it has to be when “that” day comes to pass,. RIGHT?. All of revelations, is given in different time frames , from the seven churches , to putting Satan in the bottomless pit, to his release the The reign of Jesus and the Saint’s, etc. all take place at different times, some sooner the others. So the term shortly come to pass v, depends on the time line of events. IMO
Hi brother Gene, I think you are completely on different plane than others on the book of Revelation. First you are confusing Lord’s day with the Day of the Lord which even the other Christians like Berean negate.
Revelation talks about a Thousand year rule in Chap 20 which would take place when the resurrection of Martyred saints happen. Please understand the book properly by going through some good commentary on Revelation. I am sorry to say that.
Thanks and peace to you….Adam
I haven’t been following this topic and have skim read through a post here and there. So forgive me if I miss some kind of context that changes what I am reading.
What we are not asked to do is to find the second, futurist,’fulfilment’ of this text—because John did not intend one, and his readers did not need one.
There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction.…
One is yet to come.
So what came?
The Ottoman Empire came. It came out of the Great Sea (Mediterranean). It conquered Rome (eastern leg) and ruled large swathes of the Middle East for centuries and even parts of the West. It was even antichrist by the Biblical definition. The religion of Islam denies the Father and the Son. It is a major tenet of that religion.
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Compared to the Quran which states:
Who says “Allah has begotten a Son”?
They say, “Allah hath begotten a son!” Glory be to Him! He is Self-Sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this!
“Far be it from God that he should have a son!”
And think about how this part of the world went from Christian to Muslim. It was through many tribulations.
One is yet to come.
So what came?
The Ottoman Empire came. It came out of the Great Sea (Mediterranean). It conquered Rome (eastern leg) and ruled large swathes of the Middle East for centuries and even parts of the West. It was even antichrist by the Biblical definition. The religion of Islam denies the Father and the Son. It is a major tenet of that religion.
Hi Proclaimer, thanks for reply to my post. But I am sorry to say that you are going out of context of the the text of Revelation. Please read the portion of my post you quoted above again;
What we are not asked to do is to find the second, futurist,’fulfilment’ of this text—because John did not intend one, and his readers did not need one.
Now please read Rev 17:9-12
9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; also, they are seven kings, 10 of whom five have fallen, one is living, and the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.
Revelation 17 talks about a single Empire where there would be Eight kings; “they are seven kings, of whom five have fallen, one is living, and the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction”. So the so called beast, the Eighth king would belong to the same Empire and was part of the earlier seven kings.
I think you should recheck your comparison of the beast with Ottoman Empire or a Muslim rule.
Hi Proclaimer, thanks for reply to my post. But I am sorry to say that you are going out of context of the the text of Revelation. Please read the portion of my post you quoted above again;
Your not making much sense. It says one is yet to come meaning there is one left with an eighth coming from that. And 4 have already fallen. Then you say it’s a single empire. Your not making any sense.
I’m not saying God told me that it was the Ottoman Empire. Rather, that ot fits perfectly into the prophecy.
THE GREAT HARLOT (REVELATION 17:1-18)
One of the angels who poured the bowls of divine wrath on the earth shows John the judgment that will fall upon the great harlot (17:1). The vision that John now describes is a counterpart to the story of the woman and the dragon that began Act II of Revelation (Chap 12). In the earlier vision, the people of God were personified as a woman clothed with the sun, giving birth to the Messiah who would rule all the nations. The woman and her child were pursued by a great seven-headed dragon, but the woman found refuge in the wilderness, and the dragon was cast down from heaven to earth, where it made war on the saints and deceived the nations through a seven-headed beast (12:1–13:10). Like the woman in that vision, John is now taken into the wilderness (17:3), which offers him a refuge from the lies of the dragon and the threats of the beast, allowing him to see this insidious power for what it is.
The women in Revelation 12 and 17 are portrayed in sharply contrasting ways in order to win the readers’
allegiance to the persecuted woman, who represents the people of God, and to alienate them from Babylon the harlot, who represents the adversaries of God. The woman clothed with the sun is the mother of the Messiah and the faithful (12:5, 17), while the courtesan clothed with scarlet is “the mother of whores and of earth’s abominations” (17:5). The first woman is pursued by a seven-headed monster, while the second
woman happily rides a seven-headed monster and drinks the blood of the saints (17:6). Given this picture, there is little question but that readers will identify with the first woman and not with the harlot.In practical terms, the message is that readers may find themselves in difficult straits, like the woman who flees to the wilderness, outside the social mainstream; but if the other option is to ally oneself with corrupt Babylon and a brutal beast, readers might find that life outside the mainstream is not so bad. John did not make such sharp contrasts because the distinction between good and evil was obvious to his readers. For many, the problem was precisely the opposite. John castigates those who seem unable to discern the difference between the way of God and that of the empire, or to distinguish faithfulness from unfaithfulness. Christians at Sardis and Laodicea had been lulled into complacency by their wealth (3:1–6, 14–22), while those at Pergamum and Thyatira seemed willing to accommodate the empire’s religious
practices in the interest of social harmony (2:14, 20–22). The portrayal of the harlot is designed to unmask the seductive social, economic, and religious forces that dull the readers’ perceptions and to startle them into a keener awareness of what faith means.Revelation’s use of feminine imagery draws heavily on stereotypes. Positive figures are the mother (12:1–17) and the bride (19:7–8; 21:2, 9), and the negative one is the harlot (17:1–18). Some readers find the imagery highly problematic, since it may reinforce conventional perspectives on gender roles, which can be limiting or unfair. Yet others point out that the writer draws on the familiar practice of using feminine images for cities and nations in order to make a scathing social critique….(taken from the book Revelation and the End of All Things by Craig R. Koester)
The above is the Christian view.
Your not making much sense. It says one is yet to come meaning there is one left with an eighth coming from that. And 4 have already fallen. Then you say it’s a single empire. Your not making any sense.
Please note the difference between the Empire (Kingdom) and the king.
Adam. How about having a conversation about it. Wacking each other with essays doesnt work. Keep it simple. How about making your point to me in one or two paragraphs.
Please note the difference between the Empire (Kingdom) and the king.
Let’s look at Daniel whose prophecy described 4 or these kingdoms like so:
- A beast like a lion with eagle’s wings;
- A beast like a bear, raised up on one side, with three ribs between its teeth;
- A beast like a leopard with four wings of fowl and four heads;
- A fourth beast, with large iron teeth and ten horns.
It seems obvious that we cannot look at the meaning literally. If is figurative. But the descriptions are clues. And I expect that this goes for the seven kings in Revelation.
In Daniel’s vision, the fourth beast looks very much like the Roman Empire. Not a glorious empire, but a violent grinding trampling reign. If this is the Roman Empire, then the previous one is probably Greece, then Medo-Persia, and we already know the first is Babylon.
In Daniel chapter 2, we see that the head of Gold is explicitly identified as King Nebuchadnezzar, despite the empire having numerous kings and dynasties. And according to Revelation, we are told that ‘one is’ which could have been Domitian. Personally I do not know if the kings are important as opposed to the kingdoms they represented.
they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come
I hold the view that it is seven empires. They all exist around the Great Sea and persecute the Jews in one form or another. There has been a continuous succession of empires in that area.
Proclaimer,
L’Anti Christ Come FROM the CHRISTIAN CHURCH….
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.The ANTI CHRIST FORMED A CHURCH OF STATE Universal or Catholic
The adjective “catholic” comes from the Greek καθολικός (katholikos), which means “universal”. …
THIS SYSTEM CHURCH/STATE IS SYMBOLIZED BY THE PROSTITUTE(CHURCH) RIDING THE BEAST (THE STATE)
THERE IS A LOT TO SAY ABOVE …The woman dressed in purple, drinking from a golden cup, and making people drunk on her adulteries seems like a better description for that religion to me. It is the woman who RIDES the Beast. But is not the Beast.
Revelation 17 talks about a single Empire where there would be Eight kings
I do not see a single empire in that chapter.
I do not see a single empire in that chapter.
Hi Proclaimer, we have to understand the context and the time period of the writer of the book of Revelation. Please read the verses Rev 1:3
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and who keep what is written in it; for the time is near.
Rev 1:4
John to the seven churches that are in Asia
Rev 1:9
I, John, your brother who share with you in Jesus the persecution and the kingdom and the patient endurance, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus
Rev 22:6
And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true, for the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”
So the context was the time of John, the writer of the book as the visions mentioned were to to happen soon and not after 200 or 2000 years.
Rev 17, it’s talking about the Roman Empire at the time of John, whose capital was considered the “city of seven hills,” as suggested by Rev 17:9. In this perspective, the seven kings of Rev 17:10 would be the seven Roman emperors and the Eighth would be the beast who was also among the earlier seven Kings.
I hope this will clear your doubts on this.
for the time is near.
What is the scientific range of ‘near’ for an eternal God where one day is a thousand years?
And understand that the prophecies are many and would span a range too.
The revelation only needed to start in a near time.
Ad 70 would be considered quite near but the message to the seven churches was relevant there and then.
A plan can start ‘near’ so to speak and be fulfilled much later.
It doesn’t say that the whole book will be fulfilled in the next decade or so does it.
History shows us that great tribulation followed and many atrocities further out.
But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.
So the context was the time of John, the writer of the book as the visions mentioned were to to happen soon and not after 200 or 2000 years.
Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. “Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “ Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water,…
Whether this verse is wrong or right, the description fits you Adam.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. Ex. 20:11
REVELATION
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
How long for that to happen/ Earth days? I don’t think so myself.
It may be at hand, but it doesn’t say that it will be fulfilled in a matter of years.
As I have said before. There is a plan. And there will always be a plan.
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