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J’espère que je ne suis pas trompeur comme les soi-disant prédicteurs de la fin des temps comme les Millérites et le SDA qui avaient beaucoup spéculé sur la numérologie du Livre de Daniel.
Gadam
It is you who announces tissues of lies, because you have been deceived and therefore you deceive others…sad To say…
Gadam
It is you who announces tissues of lies, because you have been deceived and therefore you deceive others…sad To say…
Hi Berean, please go through the following…
Milking the Prophecy
This approach may be discerned in the author of Daniel’s appropriation of Jeremiah’s “seventy years” prophecy. The author took a prophecy that had already been fulfilled in the sixth century and retooled it to make it relevant to the concerns of his audience in the second century BCE. This requires an excursus on the dating of Daniel:
Although the book of Daniel is set in the sixth century BCE, critical scholars are virtually unanimous that it was not completed in its final form until the mid-second century BCE. The evidence for this date is readily apparent.Daniel chapter 11 is presented as a prophecy of future political events, beginning with the rise of Alexander the Great, who overthrows the Persian empire, before his life is cut short and his kingdom is divided in four directions (Dan 11:2–4). The prophecy then proceeds through a detailed description of the rise and fall of the various kings of the Ptolemaic (Egyptian) and Seleucid (Syrian) empires, the two of which
battled one another for control of Palestine. This account of the succession of kings culminates with the Syrian king, Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175–163 BCE). Antiochus IV was a fierce persecutor of the Jewish people, who desecrated the Jerusalem temple by converting it into a temple for Zeus. This incident, which
took place in 167 BCE, is referred to as the “abomination that causes desolation” in Dan 11:31. The prophecy continues to describe the events of Antiochus’s career, culminating with a prediction of his death. The relevant factor here is that the author predicts that Antiochus would be killed in the land of Israel, “between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain.” There he would “come to his end, with no one around to help him” (11:45). The problem is that Antiochus IV did not die in Israel. In fact, he did not die anywhere near Israel. He died in Persia, after an unsuccessful attempt to loot the temple of Artemis-Nanaia in Elam.What does this tell us? The predictive prophecy in Daniel 11 is stunningly accurate, right up until about 164 BCE. Then, suddenly, a glaring failed prediction: Antiochus did not die where the author said he would die. Furthermore, the author goes on to assert that following the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes,
the archangel Michael would arise and deliver Israel from its foreign oppressors, whereupon the faithful departed would be resurrected to life (12:1–3). It should not be necessary to point out that this did not happen either. What this tells us is that these portions of Daniel were written sometime after 167 and before 163. The author was engaging in what is called “prophecy post eventum,” or “prophecy after the
fact.” Because they had already occurred, he was able to predict with amazing precision all the details of the battles and the successions of kings from Alexander the Great to Antiochus IV. The one actual prediction the author made—namely, that Antiochus IV would die in Israel and that Israel would then be delivered from bondage to the nations with the help of Michael —did not come to pass.It is easy to understand why the author would have predicted what he did. The author had hopes that the Maccabean revolutionaries —Jewish freedom fighters who rose up in response to Antiochus IV’s desecration of the Jerusalem temple—would kill Antiochus in battle on their own territory and that that
victory would lead to Israel’s immediate independence from and sovereignty over the nations. Thus, by disguising his description of past events as “predictive prophecy,” the author’s intent was to inspire hope that what had not yet taken place would happen just as surely as had all the rest. In order to explain why the “prophecy” given to Daniel had not been in circulation until the time of Antiochus IV, the author has the angel Gabriel instruct Daniel to “keep these words a secret and keep the book sealed until the time of the end” (12:4). With that, the author solved the problem. The Jewish people were not aware of Daniel’s
prophecy because it had been “kept a secret” and “sealed until the time of the end,” which the author believed was his own time—the period of the Maccabean revolution. This type of prophecy post eventum, or prophecy after the fact, was in fact a very common literary genre in the ancient world. Its intent was not so much to deceive—although a little deception was necessary—but to exhort and to inspire. The prophecies in Daniel were written to encourage the Jewish people in a time of intense crisis, to assure them that by remaining faithful, they would live to see the deliverance of Israel from the hands of the
enemy.Inerrantists frequently make the claim that “liberal” scholars argue for a “late date” for Daniel because of an alleged anti-supernaturalist bias. It is alleged that so-called liberals simply cannot accept that such accurate prophecy is possible—their “worldview” doesn’t have room for it. There are two things to say in response to this. First, inerrantists are guilty of precisely that same bias when claims to the supernatural are made in texts outside of the biblical canon. When miracles occur in other sacred or quasi-historical texts, and are attributed to powers other than Yahweh, inerrantists do not hesitate to come up with
natural explanations for the alleged phenomena.Second, such an anti-supernaturalist bias exists only in the minds of inerrantists. Critical scholars use the same methodology across the board, and the aim is not to disprove any and all supernatural claims, but to follow the evidence where it leads. In this particular case, the evidence in the text itself leads directly to the
conclusion that the prediction of the location of Antiochus’s death was mistaken. This factor in combination with late linguistic features in the book of Daniel, and not any anti-supernaturalist bias, is what leads critical scholars to date the final form of the book, quite correctly, in the mid-160s BCE. End of excursus. As I was saying, biblical interpretation was not a careful process of historical-grammatical exegesis, but an inspired identification of a “hidden meaning” in the text with a present-day reality or concern. This is what we see in the author of Daniel’s appropriation of Jeremiah’s “seventy years” prophecy. The author took a prophecy that had already been fulfilled in the sixth century and retooled it to make it relevant to the concerns of his audience in the second century BCE. Jeremiah had prophesied that Babylon would make Jerusalem into a desolate wasteland, and that Babylon would rule over the nations for seventy years. However, after the seventy years had passed, Yahweh would send other nations against Babylon and make it a desolate wasteland in turn (Jer 25:9–12). After the seventy years had been fulfilled, Yahweh would restore his people to their homeland, bringing them back to Judea (Jer 29:10). This prophecy was fulfilled in 538 BCE, after the Persian King Cyrus had defeated Babylon and issued an edict releasing all Babylonian prisoners to return to their own lands. The “seventy years” should not be pressed for exactitude. It is a round number and symbolic of the “perfect” amount of time.In reality, the Jews had only been in exile for about forty-eight years. Regardless, the point is that Jeremiah’s prophecy had already been fulfilled. The author of Daniel, however, writing about 400 years
later, was living during a time in which Jerusalem was once again being made desolate, this time not by the Babylonians but by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, a Syrian king. There was a sense among the Jewish people that Jeremiah’s promise—that the land would be restored to Israel—was as yet unfulfilled, because while they had been returned to the land, control of the land had never been returned to them. Now the dire ramifications of that fact were being brought to the surface in the intense persecutions of Antiochus IV. Thus, the author of Daniel revisits Jeremiah’s prophecy. At the outset of Daniel chapter 9, the character of Daniel ponders the prophecy, making explicit reference to Jeremiah and to the prophesied
seventy years. At the time in which the narrative of Daniel is set, the “seventy years” of Babylon’s reign would have been just about up. Daniel therefore begins to make supplication, pleading with Yahweh to deliver them from Babylon, now that the time is up. What happens next is telling. The angel appears
to Daniel and gives him a vision of seventy weeks of years. In other words, each day of the week for seventy weeks represents one year. This totals up at 490 years. Again, these are round and symbolic numbers—seventy times seven (cf. Matt 18:22)—and should not be pressed for accuracy. The angel
revealed to Daniel that the “real” meaning of Jeremiah’s prophecy was not seventy years, but seventy weeks of years. Using Jeremiah in this way lends the authority of the prophet to the author’s own agenda.[18] In other words, according to the author of Daniel, Jeremiah was not prophesying about
Daniel’s time at all, but about the period of the Maccabean revolt! That is when Israel would experience its true deliverance and restoration.Continued from above….
The author of Daniel 9 is not misinterpreting Jeremiah— he is reconfiguring Jeremiah. He is not misunderstanding the historical sense of the text; rather, he is “discovering” the hidden, eschatological sense of the text. According to Collins, this marks “a hermeneutical shift in the history of ancient Jewish exegesis. It is the first case where a prophetic oracle is explicitly interpreted allegorically, or understood to mean something other than what it literally says.” As we have noted, this assumption that the scriptures contained hidden, eschatological meanings was axiomatic for apocalyptic Jews who believed they were living in the end times. This kind of interpretation of the scriptures, prefigured here in Daniel 9, would become pervasive in the Qumran sect, as reflected in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
…The above material taken from the book “The Human Faces of God What Scripture Reveals When It Gets God Wrong”
So I am not bringing any tissues of lies as Berean commented but the solid stuff from the historians and Biblical scholars.
Gadam
You
“This approach can be discerned in Daniel’s appropriation of Jeremiah’s “seventy years” prophecy. The author took a prophecy that had already been fulfilled in the sixth century and rearranged it to make it relevant to the concerns of his audience in the second century BCE.”
Reminder of what Daniel said:
Dan.9
[1] In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;
[2] In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.There is no reason that this Daniel said here should be used for any improper reason. Daniel consulted the book of Jeremiah which announced a captivity of the Israelites of 70 years, and as the 70 years approached their end, this prompted him to pray and supplicate to his God.
Jeremiah 25:12
And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolationsJeremiah 29:10
For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. (Jerusalem).Comments
by Uriah SmithSeventy years of captivity.
Although Daniel, as prime minister of the greatest kingdom on earth, was hampered by worries and burdens, he did not allow it to deprive him of the opportunity to study things of greater importance: purposes. of God revealed to his prophets. From the books, that is, the writings of Jeremiah, he understood that God was going to allow the captivity of his people to last for seventy years. This prediction is found in Jeremiah 25:12; 29:10. This knowledge and the use that Daniel made of it shows that very early on, Jeremiah was considered a divinely inspired prophet; otherwise his writings would not have been collected so early or copied so widely. Although this was a person who was contemporary to him for a time, Daniel had a copy of his work and took it with him into captivity. Although a great prophet himself, he did not consider it humiliating to carefully study what God might reveal to one of his other servants.The seventy years of captivity should not be confused with the seventy weeks that follow. By leaving the seventy years of captivity in 6o6 BC. In AD, Daniel understood that the end was approaching, and that God had begun the fulfillment of prophecy by overthrowing the kingdom of Babylon.
There is no reason that this Daniel said here should be used for any improper reason. Daniel consulted the book of Jeremiah which announced a captivity of the Israelites of 70 years, and as the 70 years approached their end, this prompted him to pray and supplicate to his God.
Hi Berean, please note I am not any fundamentalist to take the Biblical texts as for granted to take them as the endtime predictions. In fact I study these texts with historical approach and with critical outlook.
Please read my posts carefully and understand the clarity of those arguments.
Hi Berean, please note I am not any fundamentalist to take the Biblical texts as for granted to take them as the endtime predictions. In fact I study these texts with historical approach and with critical outlook.
Please read my posts carefully and understand the clarity of those arguments.
Gadam
It’s not my case.
I approach the book of Daniel, by FAITH because it is a book inspired by God. What I advise you to do, because in the end you will end up losing yourself completely and losing your life.
I approach the book of Daniel, by FAITH because it is a book inspired by God. What I advise you to do, because in the end you will end up losing yourself completely and losing your life.
Yes that is the difference and thanks for your advice. In fact I am happy where I am now.
The Harlot and the Beast
Chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation reveal the details of the collapse of the Roman Empire. The details concerning the pouring out of the seven bowls of wrath are now given and explained in chapters 17-18. This is the point of the first two verses of Revelation 17. One of the seven angels who had poured out one of the bowls tells John that he “will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters.”
The image of the great prostitute sitting on many waters immediately indicates for us what the great prostitute represents. The harlot/prostitute image is used of wicked cities by the Old Testament prophets. Ninevah (Nahum 3:4), Tyre (Isaiah 23:16-17), and Jerusalem (Ezekiel 16:15) are a few cities that are called harlots because of their great immoralities. This great harlot in Revelation 17:1 is described as “sitting on many waters.” Verse 15 tells us what this image means. “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages.” The great harlot is the city that is ruling over the peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages of the earth. Therefore, the wicked city in view is Rome. This fits our context well. Remember that the angel is explaining the details of the judgment in the seven bowls of wrath. The seven bowls of wrath were judgments against the Roman Empire, the beast. It would not make sense to see the great prostitute as another worldly city. Rather, the city of Rome is the heart of the problem and the center of the immorality and idolatry. This is the image of verse 2 concerning the great prostitute. She is the one whom “the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” We have noted throughout this study that sexual immorality is a symbol for the idolatry that is being committed (Hosea 4:11-12; Ezekiel 6:9; Ezekiel 16:15-17; Revelation 2:14,20). Notice that Revelation 17:2 is the same description that was given in Revelation 14:8. “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality” (Revelation 14:8 ESV). This is Rome that has been causing the world to worship the emperor and be involved in idolatry. Therefore, we know the great prostitute is the city of Rome and the beast is the empire that Rome ruled. The rest of this chapter is going to give us the details about these two entities and their coming judgment.
Describing The Prostitute and The Beast (17:3-6):
John is carried away in the Spirit. We noted this image back in Revelation 1:10. Being in the Spirit means that John is seeing a vision, an inspired message from God (cf. Ezekiel 2:2). The scarlet beast has the same description as the first beast in Revelation 13. The beast is full of blasphemous names (13:1) and has seven heads and ten horns (13:1). The woman in verse 4 is dressed like a prostitute. And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in scarlet, that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life. (Jeremiah 4:30 ESV) The same language used of Babylon of ancient times is applied to Rome. Notice the language that Jeremiah used of Babylon back in his day. Babylon was a golden cup in the LORD’s hand, making all the earth drunken; the nations drank of her wine; therefore the nations went mad. Suddenly Babylon has fallen and been broken; wail for her! (Jeremiah 51:7–8 ESV) The descriptions emphasize the great immorality generated from this city. It is appropriate to describe Rome with similar language because of its great immoralities and idolatries. The name of the great prostitute is, “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” The word “mystery” in front of this description shows that this name is a symbol for a worldly, wicked city. The great prostitute is drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. This is the same description given in Revelation 16:6 and this is the reason for the judgment against Babylon the great, that is, Rome and her empire.The Explanation (17:7-18):
The angel tells John in verse 7 that he will explain the mystery of the woman and the beast. We are not left to wonder what these things mean. It is important to keep in mind again that what we are told is not intended to conceal information but reveal information about the woman and the beast. Clarity is being given to the readers and to John.The first explanation about the beast is given in verse 8. The beast “was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction.” This sounds like the description we first noted with the beast in Revelation 13. Remember that we saw this terrifying beast that has a fatal wound to one of its heads. But then the fatal wound heals and the earth marvels at the strength and power of the beast. I believe this fatal wound imagery is the same meaning as “was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit.” Both events result in the people of the earth marveling over the beast (13:4).
The focus of the last few chapters has been the persecution of the people of God by the beast. Judgment is coming upon the beast because it is killing the people of God. The people of God would be prevented from buying and selling and would suffer death for remaining faithful to the Lamb. The beast seems that it will collapse. But it only rises up with greater strength and continues the persecution of God’s people. It continues to be destined for destruction as it persecutes and its emperors call themselves divine, blaspheming the true and living God.
In verses 9-11 John is receiving some details about this. The angel calls for wisdom. The last time we saw this call was in Revelation 13:18. The meaning was for the people to have spiritual perception and insight about the deceptive nature of the beast. The angel begins with the seven heads. Remember that the beast has seven heads and ten horns. The angel is giving us an explanation about these images. When we first read the description of the beast in chapter 13 we noted that the heads, horns, and crowns represented the beast’s great authority, strength, and power. The angel tells us much more about the seven heads and the ten horns now. The seven heads represent the seven mountains on which the woman is seated.
The Expositor’s Bible Commentary states, “Most scholars have no doubt that the seven hills refer to the seven hills of Rome and the seven kings to seven successive emperors of that nation. Mounce states, ‘There is little doubt that a first-century reader would understand this reference in any way other than as a reference to Rome, the city built upon seven hills’ (Revelation, pp. 313-14).” History and literature refers to Rome repeatedly as the city on seven mountains. In fact, a Roman coin depicted the goddess Roma sitting on seven mountains. To know that we are right, notice that the end of verse 9 tells us that the woman is seated on the seven mountains. Go back to verse 1 of Revelation 17 and recall that the woman is the great prostitute, representing the city of Rome. Rome and its empire is in view. The seven heads represent Rome.
However, there is more meaning to the seven heads. The seven heads, we are told, are also seven kings. Throughout our study I have been adamant about the fact that these numbers and images are to be understood as symbols. Revelation 1:1 told us that these things were put into signs. Revelation 17:3 reminds us that John is seeing a vision as he is carried away by the Spirit. Everything we read in Revelation is a symbol for a historical reality unless the text demands otherwise. We have understood all the sevens in the book (seven seals, seven trumpets, seven bowls) as symbolically representing a complete judgment against a nation. However, there is one seven that we took literally. Back in chapter 1 we read about the seven churches of Asia. We understood these churches to be actual churches and not symbolic of all churches for all time because each church was named. The naming of each of the churches is the text demanding to understand the seven churches to refer to seven literal churches.
In the same way, we are told about the seven heads representing seven kings. If the angel had left the image at this we would be forced to understand the seven kings as a symbol representing all the kings of the Roman Empire and what they would do. However, the angel goes on and numbers the seven kings and gives details about them. The angel says of the seven kings, “Five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.” Verse 11 tells us more that the eighth king belongs to the seven and goes to destruction. These details do not make any sense in a generic, symbolic way. If seven king represents all the kings of the Roman Empire, then what does it mean that five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come that must rule for a little while? These is no way to symbolically apply these images. We are forced to understand these kings as literal emperors of the Roman Empire and something about their rule is being told to the people of God. Since something is being told to us about the actual kings that ruled over the Roman Empire, it is important that we learn about the timeframe of the emperors of Rome. Below is a list of relevant rulers for our study.
Time of Reign:
Julius (48-44 BC) as dictator
Augustus (27 BC-14 AD) as emperor
Tiberius (14-37 AD)
Caligula (37-41 AD)
Claudius (41-54 AD)
Nero (54-68 AD)
Galba (68-69 AD)
Otho (69 AD)
Vitellius (69 AD)
Vespasian (69-79 AD)
Titus (79-81 AD)
Domitian (81-96 AD)
There are a number of reasons to exclude Julius from the count. Julius was appointed as dictator over the Roman Republic, not emperor over the empire. There was a 17 year gap of time before Augustus was established as emperor. Also, if Julius is counted, then why wouldn’t Sulla and Marius who also seized power to themselves to rule the republic also be counted? Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius state that Augustus was the first emperor. As we will see the counting of seven emperors only works properly if Julius is excluded. If we leave the list as is but with Julius removed, the five fallen kings would be from Augustus to Nero. The one king who is would be Galba and the one yet to come would be Otho. This would put the writing of the book of Revelation at 68-69 AD.However, there are a couple of reasons to consider removing Galba, Otho, and Vitellius. While these three emperors were approved by the senate, their reigns would have been hardly known throughout the empire. Remember that the year 69 AD is the year of four emperors. It was a time of civil war as these emperors all laid claim to being emperor, yet were murdered or committed suicide. Each of their reigns is of no consequences.
During this civil war the emperor Vespasian and his armies that are victorious as he successfully claims the title of emperor. If this is correct, then the counting of the seven emperors works well. Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero are the five who have fallen. The one who is reigning now is Vespasian and not to count those three emperors Galba, Otho, and Vitellius, who were of no consequence. Then the one to come who will “remain only a little while” is Titus who ruled only from 79-81 AD. After Titus is Domitian. He is the eighth emperor who is like the beast, belongs to the seven, and goes to destruction. Domitian will begin to carry out these prophecies that we have read about in the previous chapters. He will claim to be God and demand divine honors and sacrifices to be made toward him.
The ten horns in verses 12-14 sound like the description to the second beast, also called the false prophet. These ten horns represent the localities and provinces that ruled within the Roman empire. Johnson rightly notes, “The multiplicity of sovereignties in confederacy that enhance the power of the beast” (Johnson, 560). Rome had given power to various regents and procurators, like the Herods, to rule over the regions and provinces. Yet their power was only from the Roman empire itself and was not their own. These rulers gave their allegiance to the Roman Empire (the beast) and would make war against God and his people who did not worship the beast.
Verses 16-17 show that the world is going to turn against Rome. The imagery is similar to Ezekiel’s prophecy against Jerusalem.
“Therefore, O prostitute, hear the word of the LORD: Thus says the Lord GOD, Because your lust was poured out and your nakedness uncovered in your whorings with your lovers, and with all your abominable idols, and because of the blood of your children that you gave to them, therefore, behold, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, all those you loved and all those you hated. I will gather them against you from every side and will uncover your nakedness to them, that they may see all your nakedness. (Ezekiel 16:35–37 ESV)
The description given is one of the primary reasons for Rome’s fall. The inner decadence and inner strife are a couple reasons why Rome fell. The Roman Empire would not hold together but fall apart because of the way it was built. One of the greatest strengths of Rome was that it incorporated all the languages and nations of the world under it. However, this also was its weakness, leading to perpetual internal problems until it finally fell. Provinces and nations under the power of Rome will turn and fight against Rome. Verse 17 points out that this is God’s doing. God is the one who brought about the fall of Rome and its empire.The chapter concludes definitely stating who the woman, the great prostitute, is. She is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth. It is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth (NRSV), reigns over the kings of the earth (NASB), and has an empire over the kings of the earth (HCSB). The only city that has an empire over the kings of the earth at the time of the writing of Revelation is the city of Rome. Rome is the great prostitute. Her demise will come when those nations and peoples under the empire turn against her and make her desolate…..(taken from the article “The Great Prostitute of Revelation 17)
Gadam
Chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation reveal the details of the collapse of the Roman Empire.
The progressive fall of the Western Roman Empire is described in The chapter 8:6-13 of Revelation And the progressive fall of the Eastern Roman Empire in the chapter 9.
However, chapter 17 describ the judgment of Vatican (Papal Roman Empire) which came After the 1260 years(538-1798) AND the events that will come from the time the woman is on the beast in the wilderness. (v.8-18)
Chapter 18
Annonce the total FALL OF BABYLON THE GREAT
AND
THE LAST BIG WARNING TO THE ALL WORLD :
TO GET OUT OF BABYLON SO AS NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN HIS SINS SO AS NOT TO TAKE PART IN HIS FLAGS:
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out from among her, my people, that you may not share in her sins, and have no part in her plagues.18: 5 For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
SO THIS PROPHECIES ARE BEFORE US AS A WARNING TO PREPARE US TO BE READY FOR THE VERY SOON COMING OF JESUS CHRIST.
The promise of victory IN CHRIST is given to us, and we have nothing to fear, if we are in Christ and Christ in us.
[V.14 ]These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.(Revelation 14:12)
However, chapter 17 describ the judgment of Vatican (Papal Roman Empire) which came After the 1260 years(538-1798) AND the events that will come from the time the woman is on the beast in the wilderness. (v.8-18)
It’s purely the imagination of the SDA church thinking that Papal Vatican is the Beast and the Harlot. I request you to come out of this great blunder of misquoting the Biblical texts especially the book of Daniel.
Gadam
“It’s purely the imagination of the SDA church thinking that Papal Vatican is the Beast and the Harlot. I request you to come out of this great blunder of misquoting the Biblical texts especially the book of Daniel.”
No, it is the truth, and the future will show you that it is the truth …
The 10 horns will soon be given authority as Kings for an hour with the beast, and they will give their power and authority to the beast, to fight against the people of God. The 10 horns represent all the nations united who unite with the resurrected papacy (healing of the mortal wound) to wage war on the saints.The ten horns that you saw are ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but who are given authority as kings for ONE HOUR WITH THE BEAST.
17:13 They have one purpose, and they give their power and their authority to the beast.
17:14 They will fight against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings; and the called and the elect and the faithful who are with him will also overcome them.
REVELATION 18
BABYLON THE GREAT is fallen, is fallen, and is become the HABITATION OF DEVILS, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with HER, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.FATE OF BABYLON GADAM, BELIEVE IN THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED …. YOU AND YOUR FAMILY
IT IS NOW THAT GOD IS CALLING YOU AGAIN TO JOIN HIM … IF TODAY YOU HEAR HIS VOICE DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEART, GO TO HIM AS YOU ARE, FOR HE WILL BE REJECTING OAS WHO COMES TO HIM WITH A SINCERE HEART.
AMEN … 😐Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9
The Prophecy of Seventy Weeks is the narrative in chapter 9 of the Book of Daniel in which Daniel prays to God to act on behalf of his people and city (Judeans and Jerusalem), and, in response, is given a detailed but cryptic prophecy of “seventy weeks” by the angel Gabriel. The prophecy has proven difficult for readers, despite having been the subject of “intense exegetical activity” since the Second Temple period. James Alan Montgomery referred to the history of this prophecy’s interpretation as the “dismal swamp” of critical exegesis.
Summary:
Daniel reads in the “books” that the desolation of Jerusalem must last for seventy years according to the prophetic words of Jeremiah (verse 2), and prays for God to act on behalf of his people and city (verses 3–19). The angel Gabriel appears and tells Daniel that he has come to give wisdom and understanding, for at the beginning of Daniel’s prayer a “word” went out and Gabriel has come to declare this revelation (verses 20–23):
24Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city: to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
25Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a troubled time.
26After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
27He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall make sacrifice and offering cease; and in their place shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator. — Daniel 9:24–27 (NRSV)
Composition and structure:
Chapter outline
The consensus among critical scholars is that chapters 1–6 of the Book of Daniel originated as a collection of folktales among the Jewish diaspora in the Persian/Hellenistic periods, to which the visionary chapters 7–12 were added during the persecution of the Jews under Antiochus IV in 167–163 BCE. The authors of the tales apparently took the name Daniel from a legendary hero mentioned in the Book of Ezekiel, and the author of the visions in turn adopted him from the tales. The point of departure is Jeremiah’s seventy years prophecy as opposed to a visionary episode, but more than half the chapter is devoted to a rather lengthy prayer.Verses 1–2. Introduction, indicating the date and occasion (the reading of Jeremiah’s prophecy).
Verses 3–19. Daniel’s prayer: An introductory statement in verses 3-4a describes how Daniel set himself to pray.
The prayer: Invocation (verse 4b).
Confession of sin (verses 5-11a).
Acknowledgement of divine punishment (verses 11b-14), marked by the passive verb in verse 11b and the switch to God as subject in verse 12.
Prayer for mercy (verses 15–19).
Verses 20–27. The revelation: An introductory statement (verses 20-21a), giving the circumstances in which the revelation occurred.
The epiphany of the angel (verse 21b).
The angelic discourse (verses 22–27), consisting of: Prefatory remarks (verses 22–23).
The prophecy of seventy weeks of years (verses 24–27).
Daniel’s prayer:
Modern critical scholars have sometimes argued that Daniel’s prayer in verses 3–19 is secondary to chapter 9, as it contrasts sharply with the difficult Hebrew that is characteristic of Daniel. Still, it might be that the author(s) of the chapter incorporated (or adapted) a traditional prayer in the course of composition, in which case the prayer would not be a later addition. Proponents of the view that the prayer is secondary argue that the context requires a prayer of illumination and not a communal confession of sin, and the beginning and end of the prayer are marked by duplications in verses 3-4a and verses 20-21a that are most plausibly interpreted as redactional seams. However, these considerations have not proved decisive, and arguments in favor of the prayer’s authenticity have also been advanced. In particular, the concluding passage in verses 20–27 contains several allusions to the language in the prayer, suggesting that it was included purposefully by the author(s) of the chapter, even if it was not originally composed by them.Gabriel’s revelation:
It has also been argued that there is a “pre-Maccabean core” to the prophetic revelation delivered by Gabriel in verses 24–27, and that certain linguistic inconsistencies between the seventy weeks prophecy and other Danielic passages suggest that the second century BCE author(s)/redactor(s) of the Book of Daniel took over and modified a preexisting oracle that was already in circulation at the time of composition. These ideas have been further developed to suggest that the different redactional layers represented in this text reflect different eschatological perspectives, with the earliest one going back to a priest named Daniel who accompanied Ezra from Babylon to Jerusalem in the fifth century BCE and the latest one to an unnamed redactor who edited this prophecy in the second century BCE so that it would function (along with other parts of the Book of Daniel) as part of “a prophetic manifesto for world domination.” It is also argued that the prophecy exhibited a high degree of literary structure at an earlier stage of its development in such a way that the six infinitival clauses of verse 24 were chiastically linked to six divisions of verses 25–27 via an elaborate system of word counts, resulting in the following reconstruction of this earlier redactional stratum:Seventy Weeks
A To withhold the rebellion.
B To seal up sins.
C To atone for iniquity.
D To bring a righteous one for the ages.
E To stop vision and prophecy.
F To anoint the Holy One of holy ones.
F’ You will discern wisdom from the departure of a word to return and rebuild Jerusalem until an anointed one is ruler.
E’ You will return for seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, and by the distress of the times it will be rebuilt, square and moat.
D’ After the sixty-two weeks he will cut off an anointed one, and the coming ruler will not have the people.
C’ He will destroy the holy city and its end will be by a flood, and by the end of the determined warfare there will be desolations.
B’ He will take away the sacrificial offering in the other week, and confirm a covenant for many in the middle of the week.
A’ On your base will be eighty abominations, and you will pour out for desolation until a complete destruction is determined.Genre and themes:
The seventy weeks prophecy is an ex eventu prophecy in periodized form whose Sitz im Leben is the Antiochene crisis in the second century BCE, with content analogous to the Enochic Apocalypse of Weeks as well as the Animal Apocalypse. In this way, the prophecy puts the Antiochene crisis in perspective by locating it within an overview of history; the specificity of the prediction is significant for the psychological effect of the revelation, which has long been recognized as a distinctive characteristic of Daniel’s prophecies (cf. Ant. 10.11.7 § 267). The prophecy is also an instance of Jewish apocalyptic literature, as it belongs to the genre of revelatory literature in which a revelation is mediated to a human recipient in Daniel by an otherworldly being in the angel Gabriel that envisages eschatological salvation. Within the macro-genre of Jewish apocalyptic literature, the prophecy further belongs to the subgenre known as the “historical apocalypse,” which is characterized by the use of ex eventu prophecy and the presence of an interpreting angel.The lengthy prayer in verses 3–19 is strongly Deuteronomic in its theology—Daniel’s people are punished for their own sin and appeal to God for mercy. However, such theological overtones conflict with other aspects of the Book of Daniel, in which the primary sin is that of a gentile king and the course of history is arranged in advance. Consequently, scholars have variously argued that the angel ignores Daniel’s prayer and that the author(s) is making the point that “the calamity is decreed and will end at the appointed time, quite apart from prayers,” and/or that the prayer is not intended to influence God but is “an act of piety in itself.” As Collins observes, “[t]he deliverance promised by the angel is in no sense a response to Daniel’s prayer” since “[t]he word goes forth at the beginning of Daniel’s supplication.” In any case, the relationship between Daniel’s prayer and the context in which it is placed, is a central issue in the contemporary scholarly interpretation of chapter 9.
Historical-critical analysis:
Historical background:
Nebuchadnezzar II defeated Egypt at the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BCE and established Babylon as the dominant regional power, with significant consequences for the southern kingdom of Judah. Following a revolt in 597 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar removed Judah’s king, Jehoiachin; and after a second revolt in 586 BCE, he destroyed the city of Jerusalem along with the Temple of Solomon, carrying away much of the population to Babylon. Accordingly, the subsequent period from 586 BCE to 538 BCE is known as the Babylonian exile, which came to an end when Babylon was conquered by the Persian king Cyrus the Great, who allowed the Jewish exiles to return to Judah via his famous edict of restoration. The Persian period, in turn, came to an end in the first half of the fourth century BCE following the arrival of Alexander the Great, whose vast kingdom was divided upon his death among the Diadochi. The series of conflicts that ensued following Alexander’s death in the wars that erupted among the Diadochi mark the beginning of the Hellenistic period in 323/2 BCE. Two of the rival kingdoms produced out of this conflict—the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt and the Seleucid dynasty in Syria—fought for control of Palestine during the Hellenistic period.At the start of the second century BCE, the Seleucids had the upper hand in their struggle with the Ptolemaic kingdom for regional dominance, but the earlier conflicts had left them nearly bankrupt. The Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV attempted to recoup some of his kingdom’s fortunes by selling the post of Jewish high priest to the highest bidder, and in 171/0 BCE the existing high priest (i.e. Onias III) was deposed and murdered. Palestine was subsequently divided between those who favored the Hellenistic culture of the Seleucids and those who remained loyal to the older Jewish traditions; however, for reasons that are still not understood, Antiochus IV banned key aspects of traditional Jewish religion in 168/7 BCE—including the twice-daily continual offering (cf. Daniel 8:13; 11:31; 12:11).
Context within chapter 9:
The seventy weeks prophecy is internally dated to “the first year of Darius son of Ahasuerus, by birth a Mede” (verse 1), elsewhere referred to within the Book of Daniel as “Darius the Mede” (e.g. Daniel 11:1); however, no such ruler is known to history independently of the Book of Daniel and the widespread consensus among critical scholars is that he is a literary fiction. Nevertheless, within the fictionalized biblical account, the first year of Darius the Mede corresponds to the first year after the Babylonian kingdom is overthrown, i.e., 538 BCE.Chapter 9 can be distinguished from the other “visionary” chapters of the Book of Daniel by the fact that the point of departure for this chapter is another biblical text in Jeremiah’s seventy years prophecy and not a visionary episode. The longstanding consensus among critical scholars has been that verses 24–27 is a paradigmatic example of inner-biblical interpretation, in which the latter text reinterprets Jeremiah’s seventy years of exile as seventy weeks of years. On this view, Jeremiah’s prophecy that after seventy years God would punish the Babylonian kingdom (cf. Jer 25:12) and once again pay special attention to his people in responding to their prayers and restoring them to the land (cf. Jer 29:10-14) could not have been fulfilled by the disappointment that accompanied the return to the land in the Persian period, hence the necessity to extend the expiration date of the prophecy to the second century BCE. And just as various elements of Daniel’s visionary episodes are interpreted for him in chapters 7–8, so also Jeremiah’s prophecy is interpreted for him in a manner similar to the pesher exegesis evidenced at Qumran in chapter 9. However, this consensus has recently been challenged on the grounds that Daniel prays to God following the defeat of the Babylonian kingdom precisely because Jeremiah’s seventy years of exile have been completed and God promised through the prophet that he would respond to such prayers at this time, in which case the seventy weeks prophecy is not a reinterpretation of Jeremiah’s prophecy but a separate prophecy altogether. And these considerations have been further refined along redactional lines to suggest that the latter holds relative to an earlier “pre-canonical” stage in the text, but that the seventy weeks prophecy is, in fact, a reinterpretation of Jeremiah’s prophecy relative to the final form of the text.
The seventy weeks prophecy:
The seventy “weeks” of years are divided into three groups: a seven-week period spanning forty-nine (49) years, a sixty-two-week period spanning 434 years, and a final period of one week spanning seven years. The first seven weeks begin with the departure of a “word” to rebuild Jerusalem and ends with the arrival of an “anointed prince” (verse 25a); this “word” has generally been taken to refer to Jeremiah’s seventy years prophecy and dated to the fourth year of Jehoiakim (or the first year of Nebuchadnezzar) in 605/4 BCE, but Collins objects that “[t]he word to rebuild Jerusalem could scarcely have gone forth before it was destroyed,” and prefers the “word” that Gabriel came to give Daniel in verse 23; other candidates include the edict of Cyrus in 539/8 BCE, the decree of Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BCE, and the warrant given to Nehemiah in 445/4 BCE. Candidates for the “prince” in verse 25a include Cyrus (cf. Isaiah 45:1), Joshua the High Priest, Zerubbabel, Sheshbazzar, Ezra, Nehemiah, the angelic “prince” Michael (cf. Daniel 10:21b), and even the collective people of God in the Second Temple period.
In the subsequent period of sixty-two weeks the city is rebuilt (verse 25b) and an “anointed one shall be cut off” (verse 26a); this “anointed one” is generally considered to refer to the High Priest Onias III, whose murder outside Jerusalem in 171/0 BCE is recorded in 2 Maccabees 4:23–28. Most critical scholars see another reference to Onias III’s murder in Daniel 11:22, though Ptolemy VI and the infant son of Seleucus IV have also been suggested. On the other hand, this raises the question of how 7 + 62 = 69 weeks of years (or 483 years) could have elapsed between the departure of the “word” in verse 25a, which cannot be earlier than 605/4 BCE, and the murder of Onias III in 171/170 BCE. Hence, some critical scholars follow Montgomery in thinking that there has been “a chronological miscalculation on [the] part of the writer” who has made “wrong-headed arithmetical calculations,” although others follow Goldingay’s explanation that the seventy weeks are not literal chronology but the more inexact science of “chronography”; Collins opts for a middle-ground position in saying that “the figure should be considered a round number rather than a miscalculation.” Others who see the calculations as being at least approximately correct if the initial seven-week period of forty-nine years can overlap with the sixty-two-week period of 434 years, with the latter period spanning the time between Jeremiah’s prophecy in 605/4 BCE and Onias III’s murder in 171/0 BCE.
The “prince who is to come” in verse 26b is typically seen by critical scholars as a reference to Antiochus IV, though Jason and Menelaus have also been suggested. Hence, the “troops of the prince” are thought to be either the Seleucid troops that settled in Jerusalem (cf. Dan 11:31; 1 Macc 1:29–40) or the Jewish hellenizers. The reference to “troops” that will “destroy the city and the sanctuary” in verse 26b is somewhat problematic since neither Jerusalem nor the temple were actually destroyed, though the city was arguably rendered desolate and the temple defiled (cf. 1 Macc 1:46; 2 Macc 6:2), and Daniel’s language of destruction “seems excessive”.
The “covenant” in verse 27a most likely refers to the covenant between the Jewish hellenizers and Antiochus IV reported in 1 Maccabees 1:11, with the ban on regular worship for a period that lasted approximately three and a half years alluded to in the subsequent clause (cf. Dan 7:25; 8:14; 12:11). The “abomination that desolates” in verse 27b (cf. 1 Macc 1:54) is usually seen as a reference to either the pagan sacrifices that replaced the twice-daily Jewish offering,(cf. Dan 11:31; 12:11; 2 Macc 6:5), or the pagan altar on which such offerings were made.
Christological readings:
There is a longstanding tradition within Christianity of reading Daniel 9 as a messianic prophecy fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The various christological readings that have been proposed share a number of features in common: Either the “anointed prince” in verse 25a or the “anointed one” in verse 26a (or both) are understood to be references to Christ, who is also sometimes thought to be the “most holy” that is anointed in verse 24 (so the Peshitta and the Vulgate). Some of the early church fathers also saw another reference to Christ in the “prince who is to come” (verse 26b), but this figure is more often identified with either the Antichrist or one of the Roman officials that oversaw the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE (e.g. Titus or Vespasian)……(taken from Wikipedia)
Gadam
CHAPTER 9 OF DANIEL HAS JESUS CHRIST FOR CENTER ,. THE OINT OF THE LORD GOD.
COMMENTS THAT FAIL TO ENHANCE THIS CENTRAL POINT ARE OF NO SPIRITUAL VALUE TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD.
Russell’s Rejection of Christ
Russell’s little book “Why I Am Not a Christian” set forth his polemic against religion in general and Christianity in particular. He was convinced that religion has had an evil influence on human civilization. “The question of the truth of a religion is one thing, but the question of its usefulness is another,” he wrote. “I am as firmly convinced that religions do harm as I am that they are untrue.” Though Russell hedges his bets a little by declaring his general respect for the moral character of Jesus, he does raise
objections to Jesus’s recorded behavior at certain points. I stress the point of “recorded behavior” because Russell was skeptical regarding the biblical account of the life and teaching of Christ. “Historically it is quite doubtful,” he says, “whether Christ ever existed at all, and if he did we do not know anything about him, so that I am not concerned with the historical question, which is a very difficult one.”Russell continues: “I am concerned with Christ as he appears in the Gospels, taking the Gospel narrative as it stands, and there one does find some things that do not seem to be very wise. For one thing, he certainly thought that his second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at that time.” Russell cites various texts of the New Testament to prove his point: “There are a great many texts that prove that. He says, for instance, ‘Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come’ (Matt. 10:23). Then he says, ‘There are some standing here which shall not taste death till the Son of Man comes into his kingdom’ (Matt. 16:28); and there are a lot of places where it is quite clear that he believed that his second coming would happen during the lifetime of many then living. That was the belief of his earlier followers, and it was the basis of a good deal of his moral teaching. . . . In that respect, clearly he was not so wise as some other people have been, and he was certainly not superlatively wise.”
One of Russell’s chief criticisms of the Jesus portrayed in the Gospels is that Jesus was wrong with respect to the timing of his future return. At issue for Russell is the time-frame reference of these prophecies. Russell charges that Jesus failed to return during the time-frame he had predicted. There is irony in Russell’s negative polemic. One of the most important proofs of Christ’s character and the Bible’s divine inspiration is Jesus’s astonishingly accurate prediction of the destruction of the temple and the fall of Jerusalem, prophecies contained in the Olivet Discourse. There can be little doubt that the biblical record of this prediction antedates the events themselves. Christ’s prophecies in the Olivet Discourse differ sharply from ancient prophecies like those of the Oracle of Delphi, which were exercises in the art of studied ambiguity. They left fulfillment somewhat open ended, and they were capable of disparate interpretation. These oracles are not unlike the predictions found in modern daily horoscopes, which are
sufficiently broad or ambiguous to allow for accidental fulfillment. Nor can Jesus’s concrete predictions be attributed to educated guesses or the insight of a futurist. To first-century Jews it was unthinkable that such catastrophic events as the destruction of the Herodian temple, the devastation of the holy city of Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jewish people to the four corners of the earth could take place in the foreseeable future. Such events were eminently not foreseeable, save to one who had information from the omniscient God himself.So the very prophecy that should confirm both the credentials of Jesus and the inspiration of Scripture is, ironically, the prophecy used by critics like Russell to debunk both Jesus and the Bible. Proof for the truthof Scripture and Christ becomes proof for the falsehood of both. As I shall presently endeavor to show, theskepticism expressed by Russell on these matters is by no means limited to him, but is the axe that is ground by a host of higher-critical scholars of the Bible. It would not be an overstatement to suggest that the chief ground for the radical criticism of modern biblical scholarship, which has resulted in a wholesaleattack on the trustworthiness of Scripture and a far-reaching skepticism of our ability to know anything about the real historical Jesus, is the thesis that the Gospels’ records of Jesus’s predictions contain glaring errors and gross inaccuracies. The main problem with Jesus’s predictions in the Olivet Discourse is that they include not only predictions regarding Jerusalem and the temple, which did come to pass with astonishing accuracy, but also predictions of his own coming in glory, or his Parousia. It is these predictions regarding Jesus’s return on which Russell seized for fodder for his negative apologia. It is tempting to dismiss Russell lightly with the charge that, though he was erudite and astute in at least two major academic disciplines, he was not a trained or skilled exegete of Scripture. When he expressed his criticisms of the biblical text, he was speaking outside the field of his expertise. The problem, however, is that Russell’s is not a lone voice in recent history. His criticisms are echoed by a multitude of highly learned specialists in the field of biblical studies.
Jesus’s Time-Frame References
The time-frame references of the Olivet Discourse are prominent in the debate over the integrity of both Christ and the Bible. Mark reports this discourse as follows:Then as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Teacher,
see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!” And Jesus answered
and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left
upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Now as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James,
John, and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be?
And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?” And Jesus,
answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many
will come in My name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many. And when
you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must
happen, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom
against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there
will be famines and troubles. These are the beginnings of sorrows. But watch
out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be
beaten in the synagogues. And you will be brought before rulers and kings for
My sake, for a testimony to them. And the gospel must first be preached to all
the nations. But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry
beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in
that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. Now
brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will
rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be
hated by all men for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be
saved.
“But when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the
prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let
those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. And let him who is on the
housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his
house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his garment. But woe
to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! And
pray that your flight may not be in winter. For in those days there will be
tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of creation which God
created until this time, nor ever shall be. And unless the Lord had shortened
those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom he chose,
he shortened the days. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’
or, ‘Look, he is there!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets
will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the
moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in
heaven will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the
clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send his angels, and
gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to
the farthest part of heaven.
“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already
become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you
also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the very
doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till
all these things take place . . .” (Mark 13:1–30).The most critical portion of this text is Jesus’s declaration that “this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place” (13:30). When Russell pointed to this pronouncement, he made two important assumptions. The first is that “this generation” refers to a specific time-frame that would be roughly forty years. That is, the terminus for the fulfillment of this prophecy is forty years. If Jesus made this announcement sometime between AD 30 and 33, then the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 would fit perfectly within the time-frame. The second assumption made by Russell (and others) is that the phrase “all these things” includes all of the subject matter of his future prediction, including his coming in clouds of power and glory. Given these assumptions, the prima facie reading of the text leads to the conclusion that, within the time-frame of forty years, not only will the temple and Jerusalem be destroyed, but also the parousia (or coming) of Christ will take place. Since, again according to Russell, the parousia did not take place within this time-frame, both Christ and the Bible are wrong.
Both of Russell’s assumptions have been challenged in manifold ways, as we will see later. For now, however, we are focusing on the first-glance reading of the text that is held by Russell and others. It is my fear that evangelicals today tend to underplay the significance of the problems inherent in Russell’s assumptions. Too often we take a facile approach to the problem that reveals our failure to feel the weight of such objections. This becomes particularly acute when we realize the extent to which these problems have contributed to the entire modern controversy over the inspiration of Scripture and the person and work of Christ. To gain a better feel for the problem, we must take a short reconnaissance of modern views of eschatology….(taken from the book “The Last Days According to Jesus” by R. C. Sproul)
Adam……He is wrong regarding , his understanding of this generation being the generation of That time of Jesus’ time when he was here on the earth, He was speaking about that Generation, when those Celestria events started to take place, that was the generation that wold not pass till all those things take place.Including his return . Jesus was not talking about the people of his day, but the generation of is his return.
Adam , your listing to people who do not have the “Spirit of Truth” guiding them. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Adam……He is wrong regarding , his understanding of this generation being the generation of That time of Jesus’ time when he was here on the earth, He was speaking about that Generation, when those Celestria events started to take place, that was the generation that wold not pass till all those things take place.Including his return . Jesus was not talking about the people of his day, but the generation of is his return.
Hi brother Gene, please read the Biblical texts properly without any bias towards these writers you will get truth behind these writings. Please read carefully;
Now as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James,
John, and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be?
And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?” And Jesus,
answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. (Mark 13:3-5)‘Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come’ (Matt. 10:23).
Then he says, ‘There are some standing here which shall not taste death till the Son of Man comes into his kingdom’ (Matt. 16:28);
Please notice the audience that Jesus was talking about. He was not talking about the audience who are of distant future after 2000 or 3000 years but about his generation. The rest is the pure speculation of the Christianity in the past, present and future.
Adam…….Jesus was not talking about the Jews, he was talking about the lost sheep of the house of Israel, which were scattered all over the world at the time Jesus said that, The Jew were not even considered as part of the nation of ‘Israel’ at the time Jesus spoke those words, Israel was already taken and scattered by the Ancient Assyrians . Had the person who wrote that knew that, he couldn’t have used it against the words of Jesus, had you understood that you could not have used it also. IMO
Adam trust me , your following blind guides, who have no or little understanding of ancient history, and what Jesus meant, no matter what they are saying to you.
peace and love to you and yours Adam………..gene
Adam trust me , your following blind guides, who have no or little understanding of ancient history, and what Jesus meant, no matter what they are saying to you.
Hi brother Gene, in fact it is other way round. Please read my post properly and understand the so called words of Jesus which the Gospel writers kept in his mouth. The audience who were standing before Jesus would not live 2000 years to witness the so called Parousia of Jesus in the year 2021, 2022 or 2023.
Adam…..what does this mean to you, We shall all stand before the Judgement seat of Christ? When does that Judgement take place, is it not after he returns and has established the Kingdom on this earth. “There shall be weeping and nashing of teeth. ” There is a future final Judgement for all Adam.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Adam…..what does this mean to you, We shall all stand before the Judgement seat of Christ? When does that Judgement take place, is it not after he returns and has established the Kingdom on this earth. “There shall be weeping and nashing of teeth. ” There is a future final Judgement for all Adam.
Again misquoting texts… Jesus was talking to the his (present) audience in the first Century who were standing with him at that time and not the so called future resurrected souls before the Judgement seat. Please understand the context of those verses I quoted above.
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