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Sorry about the swearing in that last video. Forgot it was there.
I believe that if I show you 100 or 1000 such tricks and destroy the magic for you in each one, you will begin to see what I see. I truly hate to destroy this effect.
In the above post, you learned a couple things: the idea of making it appear as though he merely thought of a card and could have chosen any of 52 cards. That is not the case. And more importantly, although the effect will always work on any person, the outcome is very different. In this particular case, we saw the very best outcome. If you were to watch other clips of him or others doing the same effect, you will see that there is a best outcome (the one we saw), a second outcome, which is also pretty good. After that, it goes downhill, and starts feeling more like a psychic trick, but here is the point: we didn't see those other outcomes! We only saw this one. And this one is the most brilliant.
As freakishly brilliant as this effect is (the mind power deck, which he created a version called “smoke”) what I want to stress is what happens later.
The person will have the belief that they “merely thought of a card.” We'll, he didn't. Ask yourself: If he merely was to think of a card, why spread the deck at all? That makes it less impressive and therefore there is must be a reason for it. And there of course is. I really don't want to wreck this trick. But it is so close to how psychics work, it's important to understand. Now, with the hints, any thoughts?
Quote He then suggest hearts or diamonds. Maybe because she wasn't wearing diamonds, statistically speaking you will choose hearts. Or maybe people choose hearts most of the time anyway. I would. It's been worked out exactly which cards people are most likely to pick. Guys for example are more likely to pick the king of diamonds. Girls, the queen of hearts. People generally don't pick the 2 of clubs. Why would they. It's boring. The 7 of hearts is so much more interesting. Anyway, people have worked this out.
Quote (david @ Nov. 23 2012,01:41) http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=G9P3ef58ymE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG9P3ef58ymE This trick makes people's brains explode. It's really happening. The guy isn't in on it.
And this trick is probably the very best example of how psychics work, which is why I include it.
Watching him do the trick for someone else will make the effect a little less impressive:http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=wr_OYd9CyK4
And you will begin to see how this works. If you want to have that sense of magic and believe, don't watch this second clip.
Quote In this particular case, we saw the very best outcome. If you were to watch other clips of him or others doing the same effect, you will see that there is a best outcome (the one we saw), a second outcome, which is also pretty good. When you only see a trick performed once, it is very hard to understand.
Experiment for creating a miracle:
Walk up to a person and tell them to merely think of a number from 1-100.
Act as though you are trying to see into their mind. Say: “37.”
They will most likely say: “no.”Repeat this until you get it right (a hit). It may take 100 tries. But, for that one person who thinks of 37, it may be quite magical. Now, imagine that the person who it worked on believed strongly in psychics. To them, you would be a psychic. They would reason: “it might be a lucky guess, but that seems unlikely.” For them, close to miraculous. The other people, the other 25 or 100 people or so will forget about it because its boring. Non-stories or non-events are boring and forgotten.
Of course, a magician would never do it this way. This is the way I did it once.
“Donna, think of a number from 1-50. But, to make it interesting, make both digits odd digits…and make them different digits. Do you have one?”
[“75 she said]
“No, between 1 and 50 I said…and make them different digits and odd digits, and don't tell me, I'll tell you.”
[immediately she said: “got one”]
“37” I said.
“That's right. How did you do that” she said.
Magic, I said.
I did this trick about 6 or 7 times that day. It worked the first 4 times, but, not the next couple. It doesn't work every time, which is why there are back ups.
Later, the details will be lost but the effect will be embellished in their mind. If they spent some time to think a out it, I limited the amount of choices: odd digits. Different digits.
13, 15,17,35, 37,39,
Those are the only choices. But later they will remember that they could have thought of any number from 1-50 or perhaps, any number at all. Most pick 37, because when they realize they have to pick odd digits, they immediately think of 3, not 1. Then, they realize they need different digits. For some reason, people pick 7 as the next different digit, again, it seeming more of an odd digit than 5. So, this works most of the time.
BACK UPS.
The performer will have a sheet of paper in his hand with the number 35 on it. If he says “37” and gets it right, the paper isn't mentioned, because a miracle just seemed to happen. No one remembers or even really thinks about the paper. But, if 37 is wrong the magician says something like: “think harder, really concentrate. I made a prediction beforehand. Can you tell us what number you were merely thinking of?” “35”. Unfold the paper to see prediction. Wow! Now, the original 37 will be forgotten. There is about a 5 or 10% chance they will think of 13 or 17. (People tend to not pick 39 or 19). If they pick either of those numbers, walk away. Blame them. They weren't concentrating hard enough after all. :-).MEMORY
I really want to drill home that people remember wrong. They leave details out of their memory. When Donna later remembers those events, she will just remember that I asked her to think of a number. And that I somehow reached into her mind, as if by magic. Then, maybe she tells the story to someone. Of course, she leaves out the details. She just remembers the magic. And so, this is how stories about magical boards form: a misunderstanding of what is happening, a mis-remembering of what happened, retelling of that untrue story. It's been calculated that about 1/3 of the time, the other person holding the planchette is just having fun and moving the thing around. But that isn't required for the ideomotor effect to work.The levitation (actually suspension) of the glass. I have some questions. Did the other person have his middle finger on top of the glass and the other two fingers pressed up against his side of the glass?
How high did the glass go? (When David Blaine appeared to levitate off the ground it was 1 inch, but people later recalled it being several inches or a foot).
Whose board was it?
Who was the other person using it?
We're there alcohol or drugs involved?
What kind of glass? What material? How heavy?
What were your hand positions on the glass?
How well do you know the other person? Is he a joker? Does he like to prank people? Tell me about him?
What was your state of mind at the time? How old were you? How was your childhood?If I saw a video, or if a video existed, this would be a non-story.
To all,
Exodus 7:10
King James Version (KJV)10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Was Aaron a trickster?
Exodus 7:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
What about the magicians of Egypt?
From what I understand tricksters can accomplish this feat. The fact they could have used trickery does not mean they did.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2012,05:55) To all, Exodus 7:10
King James Version (KJV)10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Was Aaron a trickster?
Exodus 7:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the SORCERERS: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
What about the magicians of Egypt?
From what I understand tricksters can accomplish this feat. The fact they could have used trickery does not mean they did.
ACTS 13:10 tells us that Elymas the SORCERER was full of FRAUD and every sort of villiany.I'm not saying that Aaron used trickery or even that the Egyptian sorcerers used fraud.
I'm saying that today, it's impossible to find anything that isn't easily explained through psychology, physics, science, natural means.
Quote (david @ Nov. 23 2012,01:42) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2012,05:55) To all, Exodus 7:10
King James Version (KJV)10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Was Aaron a trickster?
Exodus 7:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the SORCERERS: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
What about the magicians of Egypt?
From what I understand tricksters can accomplish this feat. The fact they could have used trickery does not mean they did.
ACTS 13:10 tells us that Elymas the SORCERER was full of FRAUD and every sort of villiany.I'm not saying that Aaron used trickery or even that the Egyptian sorcerers used fraud.
I'm saying that today, it's impossible to find anything that isn't easily explained through psychology, physics, science, natural means.
David,Quote I'm saying that today, it's impossible to find anything that isn't easily explained through psychology, physics, science, natural means. The thing is that the miracle of the staff to snake and many other wonders in Scripture can be explained the same way. Even the resurrection from the dead as such bizarre things happen today.
Here are seven such events.
The fact they can be explained in such ways does not mean they happened so. It is our culture that leads us to believe they do just as the culture of the time of Moses led them to believe they were the acts of spirits.
Kerwin, the problem is you are too willing to believe…so willing that you don't question anythingTake story number 6
6. The Russian woman who died after her funeral
A 49-year-old Russian woman, Fagilyu Mukhametzyanov, collapsed at her home with chest pains last year. Doctors told her husband that she had suffered a massive heart attack, and they pronounced her dead. At the open-casket funeral, the “dead” woman heard mourners praying for her soul to go to heaven. Her eyes started fluttering, and, realizing where she was, she started to scream. “We immediately rushed her back to the hospital,” says her widower, as quoted by Austrian Times, “but she only lived for another 12 minutes in intensive care before she died again, this time for good.”Here, this article repeatedly says she was dead and doctors pronounced her dead. But, if you click the link in that paragraph, it takes you to where the story came from, which says:
“A woman died from a heart attack caused by shock after waking up to discover she had been declared dead – and was being taken for burial.
Fagilyu Mukhametzyanov, 49, had been incorrectly declared dead by doctors but died for real when she heard mourners saying prayers for her soul to be taken up to heaven.
Devastated husband Fagili Mukhametzyanov, 51, had been told his wife had died of a heart attack after she had collapsed at home suffering from chest pains. But as mourning relatives filed past her open coffin, they were shocked when the supposedly dead woman suddenly woke up and started screaming when she realised where she was.
“Her eyes fluttered and we immediately rushed her back to the hospital, but she only lived for another 12 minutes in intensive care before she died again, this time for good,” her husband – who now plans to sue the hospital in Kazan, Russia – said.
He added: “I'm very angry and want answers. She wasn’t dead when they said she was and they could have saved her.”
Hospital spokesman Minsalih Sahapov said: “We are carrying out an investigation.”
Being incorrectly declared dead happens.
Look at the story before this one, the chimese one. On that story she was just laid down, not dead. No doctors. She WASNT dead. These stories generally are seen to happen, not in the US or Europe but places without adequate medical care.
Actually read the stories. Then study the stories.
Before modern times, being burried alive was very very common. I imagine in lands that aren't advanced it still happens sometimes.
david
Eph 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.Hey david. Yes I am fully aware that tricks and cons are all about distractions and that in this case that woman would likely think it was miraculous. But can you use this as evidence to disprove all things. No. It only shows how a person gives much higher regard to something that is not deserving when you factor in all the facts.
Tricks do not explain everything because God and reality are not tricks and yet confident Atheists would use your exact arguments to discredit God, answered prayer, and visions from God. So from their experience you are the one who has been sucked in.
At some point you have to admit that some things are real and some things are tricks. And you use your judgement to say which is what and usually that judgement is made upon what you believe. Hence if an Atheist doesn't believe in God and he can explain the existence of the universe using gravity as well as people believing in God as being all in the mind, then as convinced as he may be, that is not good enough proof that God doesn't exist.
Humans experience different things. Neil Armstrong went to the moon and I didn't. However, I am not going to say that going to the moon was a trick just because it is out of the realm of my own experience, even if the flag was waving and there was more than one light source in photos taken from the moon.
It is common sense that there are things in this existence that are outside our experience and as such we don't put them into the realm of magic. I think you have made a fundamental error by attributing too much to false memories and magic. So as I said before, you are exactly like the Atheist who thinks God is a trick of the mind and doesn't exist at all.
Are you that confident in your own abilities that you think you can say for sure that this experience that a person had is false and your experience if you have any with God is true.
My personal view is that you are demonstrating clearly the very thing you are trying to show me. Your mind is playing a trick on you. You believe that it is impossible for a spirit to move an object, thus this belief pervades your reality to the point that you will discredit all such accounts because it falls outside of your own experience and belief. You also demonstrate aptly to me that your mind is closed to certain possibilities.
I think a wise person is the one who has the wisdom to know what is certain (e.g., God), what is not (e.g., a 50 foot pink martian), and what is possible but not proven. I don't think you are experienced or knowledgeable enough to put everything into the first 2 categories. And honest person would place many things in the third category.
I saw this the other day and I think it is a true saying because so-called self appointed experts actually know much less than they think. They are over-confident about their field of expertise to the point that they become arrogant. Scientist who proudly exclaim that there is no God is a perfect example.
Quote Tricks do not explain everything Never said they did. But ouija board, is explained by the ideomotor effect, memory, the love of stories, hit and miss confirmation bias, stooges, etc.
Quote At some point you have to admit that some things are real and some things are tricks Never said nothing is real. You seem to want to ignore reality about ouija boards and blur that by making the conversation vague or about something else.
Quote Humans experience different things. Neil Armstrong went to the moon and I didn't. However, I am not going to say that going to the moon was a trick just because it is out of the realm of my own experience, even if the flag was waving and there was more than one light source in photos taken from the moon. That's large enough to have its own discussion. But, I would put the apology this way:
You think the moon is magic or made of cheese. I however have studied the moon. It is not made of cheese. Your feeling make you think it is cheese. My study and years of actual research demonstrate that it isn't. In fact, in this illustration, I have been to the moon thousands of times and you continue to tell me you feel it is cheese.
Quote I think you have made a fundamental error by attributing too much to false memories and magic That's why I suggest going through them one by one. There are millions. We should start now.
Quote I don't think you are experienced or knowledgeable enough to put everything into the first 2 categories I don't.
You keep staring this FALLACY as if to create a straw man argument.
Quote I saw this the other day and I think it is a true saying because so-called self appointed experts actually know much less than they think. They are over-confident about their field of expertise to the point that they become arrogant. Scientist who proudly exclaim that there is no God is a perfect example. I could pretend that I don't know how certain things work, to make myself appear more humble. But, that would feel like lying. I can't make myself believe that a ouija board is supernatural because you don't understand it, any more than you can make yourself believe that a computer is supernatural because I don't understand it.
If you want to believe something is magic, don't study it. Don't ask questions. Don't seek out knowledge. Don't think logical. Or, simply don't think.
Quote Yes I am fully aware that tricks and cons are all about distractions and that in this case that woman would likely think it was miraculous. But can you use this as evidence to disprove all things No. But if we go through 10,000 other examples you may notice a trend.
t8
I realy think that this tread does not belong to the believers side ,it as nothing to do with the truth of God beside to be rejected by it ,
so I request that if you can to move it to the skeptics side ; thank you
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