Psychics

[Proclaimer]

Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2013,19:39)

Why do they mostly mess with Catholics and others that believe in them? Why wouldn't it be more even, with athiests and scientists equally being attacked by them? Doesn't it seem they by far mostly bother with those that believe in them?

Ask yourself why God shows himself to those who believe and you have a likely answer.

Belief is important. A person who doesn't believe that they will succeed likely won't for example.

[kerwin]

David,

Saint Nicholas is a real person though he died and many of the tales of him are fiction.  Never the less the spirit of giving is still around.

The Easter Bunny is possibly a better example of what you mean but even he has some basis in symbolism.

Both of these creatures are said to bring presents to all children on the eve of their respective holidays.  An all statement can be disproved by finding some cases when it is not true.

You ask that we tell you where a witch is, and I do not speak of the wannabees, as if you are unaware that telling anyone the location of such is odious to a believer; even if they know.

[david]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,16:50)

Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2013,19:40) Quote And if scripture says that they possess men and do false miracles even right up until the end of this age, then the only conclusion is unbelief in what is written. Which scripture is his?  Is there more than one?  Is it the 1 these one? Is one scripture not enough? But demon activity is mentioned in the Book of Acts. And we are told this: 1 Cor 10:20-22 (NIV) … I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. So people can participate with demons as they do with God. I guess there are plenty of false religions that have so-called miracles.

T8, I was more so wanting to see a scripture that says demons help create the false miracles of today.

[david]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,16:53)

I guess the difference between you an me is that I am talking about everyday life and things that happen in that context. You are talking about experiments with cameras to see if God or demons will demonstrate things. I am totally against the latter. That is called testing God. And I would imagine that testing demons is also futile.

I don't remember ever suggesting we test God, which you falsely imply.

It's testing the …”psychics” to see whether they are just guessing or using trickery, or if they are real.

Is it wrong to expose deception?

[david]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,17:24)

Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2013,19:37) “Demons aren't dogs that fetch sticks when you ask them,…” How do you explain the oiji board?  Isnt that exactly how the ouiji board supposedly works?  Did Parker brothers make a deal with the demons? The oiji board has little to do with it. I guess you could use a coin, heads for yes… A demon might possess a man with a knife, but we don't blame the manufacturer of the knife. However, in one sense perhaps they have done a deal. How many people who bought one tried to communicate with what is likely to be demons, in exchange for selling what is effectively cardboard. I guess then you being an unbeliever could sell these boards and not feel guilty about the result.

You keep saying that it has nothing to do with the ouiji board (or that set up)

EXPERIMENT that will unquestionably prove you wrong:

Experiment1.
Have many people only use one person (rather than two)

I would bet everything I own that the magical experiences of a group of ouiji board users that try to use it by themself, are 20% or less of the group that use it with someone else (2 people)

Give 1000 couples a ouiji board, and track what are considered “hits.”
Give 1000 single people ouiji boards and have them play with it by themself. I absolutely know that the group of single people would be dramatically less amazing than the other group. And I know why.

So, if its not the board (the whole set up really) then how would we explain this difference? (I know you don't know that there would be a difference but there absolutely would be).

I just checked the “rules”. Guess what? Rule number 1: you should never play alone. They say this is for safety but that is a lie. It's because of how the board works. I consider it a fact that he board simply won't work nearly as well with only one person.

Ask yourself: if this was demons, why would they care to play by the “rules”?

[david]

I looked at that page again:

I checked the rules and the first rule (the only rule that is real, or that matters) is:

You can't play alone.

And before the rules, are the instructions. Guess what? The instructions start by saying: you need at least two players.

They make that one point really clear. Why? Because that's how it works. Why wouldn't it work with one person?

T8, I believe that the cup wouldn't have suspended with just you(one person) because the other person was needed to do the suspending.

I believe and know that people (like myself) like to play practical jokes.

This happens much of the time and the other person is just revealing the message they want, but the SECOND person doesn't know this and it's the second person that will be telling the magical strokes.

The ideomotor effect should work with only one person, but when 2 people are in play, it works better, and is more freaky, because each will blame the other person for the movement and paranoi sets in.

Anyway: WHY 2 people required? Why?

You are wrong if you believe it's not about the board (the set up). Of course I don't think it's about the physical board as if demons lived inside the board. It's a out the whole set up. But the official board helps freak people out because of precious beliefs.

[david]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,17:26)

david, you are an unbeliever in the matter of spirits. I get it. Not sure I really want to prove it to you if I could and if that would be a good thing. But happy to stick to scripture and leave it as a matter of faith in the word.

I don't remember saying I'm an unbeliever in spirits.

I believe all psychics today are fake and challenge anyone to show me a real psychic that isn't using trickery.

[david]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,17:29)

Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2013,19:39) Why do they mostly mess with Catholics and others that believe in them? Why wouldn't it be more even, with athiests and scientists equally being attacked by them? Doesn't it seem they by far mostly bother with those that believe in them? Ask yourself why God shows himself to those who believe and you have a likely answer. Belief is important. A person who doesn't believe that they will succeed likely won't for example.

Another way to say that:

People that believe in God believe that God showed himself to them. If God only shows himself (makes himself believable) to those who already believe, then are we even sure anything has happened?

Similarly, if demons only show themself to people who believe in them, could it perhaps be because these people that already believe are interpreting what they see in the context of their belief?

I know how important belief is. I also know how tremendously powerful it is.

[david]

Can it be said that “real” psychics only exist when you aren't looking. And if you happen to look in their direction, they vanish. And this vanishing is in fact the real magic?

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ Jan. 31 2013,11:19)

Can it be said that “real” psychics only exist when you aren't looking.  And if you happen to look in their direction, they vanish.  And this vanishing is in fact the real magic?

David,

The real psychics are unreliable as forecasters and as far as I know have always been so. They tend to speak in riddles which are open to interpretation. This fact is known of as of old.

[david]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2013,18:54)

Quote (david @ Jan. 31 2013,11:19) Can it be said that “real” psychics only exist when you aren't looking.  And if you happen to look in their direction, they vanish.  And this vanishing is in fact the real magic? David, The real psychics are unreliable as forecasters and as far as I know have always been so.  They tend to speak  in riddles which are open to interpretation.  This fact is known of as of old.

If they speak in riddles (like Michel de Nostradamus) and if they say a lot, the problem is, they don't have to have any psychic powers what so ever.

You can later look through history and match riddles and unclear sayings up to reality, while ignoring the vast majority of the predictions.

Some of these things can seem remarkable, but it is just probability. If someone says 10,000 things in poetry, you can very easily pick out hundreds of things matching them to real life.

[Wakeup]

Quote (david @ Feb. 01 2013,08:56)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2013,18:54) Quote (david @ Jan. 31 2013,11:19) Can it be said that “real” psychics only exist when you aren't looking.  And if you happen to look in their direction, they vanish.  And this vanishing is in fact the real magic? David, The real psychics are unreliable as forecasters and as far as I know have always been so.  They tend to speak  in riddles which are open to interpretation.  This fact is known of as of old. If they speak in riddles (like Michel de Nostradamus) and if they say a lot, the problem is, they don't have to have any psychic powers what so ever.   You can later look through history and match riddles and unclear sayings up to reality, while ignoring the vast majority of the predictions. Some of these things can seem remarkable, but it is just probability.  If someone says 10,000 things in poetry, you can very easily pick out hundreds of things matching them to real life.

David.

1 Samuel 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. **AND SAUL PERCEIVED** that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to **SAUL**? Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

1 Samuel 28:16 Then said *SAMUEL*? Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

THIS WOMAN IS COMMUNICATING WITH FAMILIAR SPIRITS. THESE SPIRITS ARE SERVING HER,IN EXCHAGE FOR HER SOUL.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ Feb. 01 2013,03:56)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2013,18:54) Quote (david @ Jan. 31 2013,11:19) Can it be said that “real” psychics only exist when you aren't looking.  And if you happen to look in their direction, they vanish.  And this vanishing is in fact the real magic? David, The real psychics are unreliable as forecasters and as far as I know have always been so.  They tend to speak  in riddles which are open to interpretation.  This fact is known of as of old. If they speak in riddles (like Michel de Nostradamus) and if they say a lot, the problem is, they don't have to have any psychic powers what so ever.   You can later look through history and match riddles and unclear sayings up to reality, while ignoring the vast majority of the predictions. Some of these things can seem remarkable, but it is just probability.  If someone says 10,000 things in poetry, you can very easily pick out hundreds of things matching them to real life.

David,

The people of old knew these things and still called them prophets.  

From what I have heard Nostradamus, some of his predictions did turn out true.

His few accuracies has led to certain men into using his words to forward their agenda and therefore opened his words up to controversy.

Weather prophets of this time period are notoriously inaccurate even though they have more technology to read the signs.  Does that mean they are not real meteorologist?

[david]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 01 2013,09:48)

Quote (david @ Feb. 01 2013,08:56) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2013,18:54) Quote (david @ Jan. 31 2013,11:19) Can it be said that “real” psychics only exist when you aren't looking.  And if you happen to look in their direction, they vanish.  And this vanishing is in fact the real magic? David, The real psychics are unreliable as forecasters and as far as I know have always been so.  They tend to speak  in riddles which are open to interpretation.  This fact is known of as of old. If they speak in riddles (like Michel de Nostradamus) and if they say a lot, the problem is, they don't have to have any psychic powers what so ever.   You can later look through history and match riddles and unclear sayings up to reality, while ignoring the vast majority of the predictions. Some of these things can seem remarkable, but it is just probability.  If someone says 10,000 things in poetry, you can very easily pick out hundreds of things matching them to real life. David. 1 Samuel 28:14   And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. **AND SAUL PERCEIVED** that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.  1 Samuel 28:15   And Samuel said to **SAUL**? Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.  1 Samuel 28:16   Then said *SAMUEL*?  Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? THIS WOMAN IS COMMUNICATING WITH FAMILIAR SPIRITS. THESE SPIRITS ARE SERVING HER,IN EXCHAGE FOR HER SOUL. wakeup.

WAKEUP, yes, there are of course numerous places in the bible that could be mentioned.

I'm just talking about reality right now, today.

Find me anyone on the planet at can do this today without trickery–someone that can really do is.

[david]

Quote

From what I have heard Nostradamus, some of his predictions did turn out true.

Well, the interpretation of “some” of his predictions seem to come true. But he wrote a lot. Of the vast majority of what he said can't be said to come true, then it is just a matter of searching rough lots of words to find meaning. Which predictions did you hear came true? I have heard the same. But I've never actually spent any time doing any real research on what he actually wrote.

Yes, they are real meteorologists. But we don't ascribe any magical power to meteorologists. There are no such thing as fake meteorologists. There aren't really people who pretend to forecast the weather.

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ Feb. 02 2013,09:11)

Quote From what I have heard Nostradamus, some of his predictions did turn out true. Well, the interpretation of “some” of his predictions seem to come true.  But he wrote a lot.  Of the vast majority of what he said can't be said to come true, then it is just a matter of searching rough lots of words to find meaning.   Which predictions did you hear came true?  I have heard the same.  But I've never actually spent any time doing any real research on what he actually wrote.   Yes, they are real meteorologists.  But we don't ascribe any magical power to meteorologists.  There are no such thing as fake meteorologists.  There aren't really people who pretend to forecast the weather.

David and all,

I did a search on the internet and found several that seem legitimate as well as a few that the interpretation is stretched according to the interpreters bias.  In the few I have observed, his more accurate ones seem closer to his own time.

Here are some mixed with  a few obvious misinterpretations dealing with the War on Terror.

I don't look into him much as I see his words as the words of Satan mixing truth and deception to lead the unwary astray.  He seems to be an example of what Scripture calls a false prophet.

[david]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 02 2013,16:45)

Quote (david @ Feb. 02 2013,09:11) Quote From what I have heard Nostradamus, some of his predictions did turn out true. Well, the interpretation of “some” of his predictions seem to come true.  But he wrote a lot.  Of the vast majority of what he said can't be said to come true, then it is just a matter of searching rough lots of words to find meaning.   Which predictions did you hear came true?  I have heard the same.  But I've never actually spent any time doing any real research on what he actually wrote.   Yes, they are real meteorologists.  But we don't ascribe any magical power to meteorologists.  There are no such thing as fake meteorologists.  There aren't really people who pretend to forecast the weather. David and all, I did a search on the internet and found several that seem legitimate as well as a few that the interpretation is stretched according to the interpreters bias.  In the few I have observed, his more accurate ones seem closer to his own time. Here are some mixed with  a few obvious misinterpretations dealing with the War on Terror. I don't look into him much as I see his words as the words of Satan mixing truth and deception to lead the unwary astray.  He seems to be an example of what Scripture calls a false prophet.

Are “false prophets” the same thing as fake prophets, fraudsters?

Michel de nostradamous wrote a lot. A lot! And since what he wrote was poetical, it's quite easy to search through the ton of material and find several things that seem to be accurate. We have to understand this:

If you or anyone writes a large volume of vague poetic type writings and it is later translated, it becomes quite easy to:
1. Pick and choose things after the fact (the event) and try to find something, anything that seems to match up to it, and it helps that there is some leeway with translation, where the translation can also pick and choose which helps out.

Of nostradamous had only written 2 pages of things and these two pages all seemed to be accurate, it would be more interesting. But if those two pages of “accurate” predictions are spread over a thousand pages, it's completely different.

If someone who studies nostradamous could tell me WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, that would be great. They can only say what has happened in the past. WHY? Because thats how it works. They are merely scanning a thousand pages for anything that seems to match up with history. If it was actual prediction, it would come before the event and be clear enough for a person to know before it happens.

[terraricca]

I find that it does not matter what philosophy you are carrying in life and live by ,it will always be the reflection of yourself and your soul,

So it is us personally that we have to search God if that is who we want to know and serve ,if not any else for free grasp and pay later ,:D

Now there are very talented people in this world ,and they will use that talent for there own means ,so be ware,

And I talk with experience ,

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ Feb. 04 2013,09:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 02 2013,16:45) Quote (david @ Feb. 02 2013,09:11) Quote From what I have heard Nostradamus, some of his predictions did turn out true. Well, the interpretation of “some” of his predictions seem to come true.  But he wrote a lot.  Of the vast majority of what he said can't be said to come true, then it is just a matter of searching rough lots of words to find meaning.   Which predictions did you hear came true?  I have heard the same.  But I've never actually spent any time doing any real research on what he actually wrote.   Yes, they are real meteorologists.  But we don't ascribe any magical power to meteorologists.  There are no such thing as fake meteorologists.  There aren't really people who pretend to forecast the weather. David and all, I did a search on the internet and found several that seem legitimate as well as a few that the interpretation is stretched according to the interpreters bias.  In the few I have observed, his more accurate ones seem closer to his own time. Here are some mixed with  a few obvious misinterpretations dealing with the War on Terror. I don't look into him much as I see his words as the words of Satan mixing truth and deception to lead the unwary astray.  He seems to be an example of what Scripture calls a false prophet. Are “false prophets” the same thing as fake prophets, fraudsters?   Michel de nostradamous wrote a lot.  A lot!   And since what he wrote was poetical, it's quite easy to search through the ton of material and find several things that seem to be accurate.  We have to understand this: If you or anyone writes a large volume of vague poetic type writings and it is later translated, it becomes quite easy to: 1. Pick and choose things after the fact (the event) and try to find something, anything that seems to match up to it, and it helps that there is some leeway with translation, where the translation can also pick and choose which helps out.   Of nostradamous had only written 2 pages of things and these two pages all seemed to be accurate, it would be more interesting.  But if those two pages of “accurate” predictions are spread over a thousand pages, it's completely different.   If someone who studies nostradamous could tell me WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, that would be great.  They can only say what has happened in the past. WHY?  Because thats how it works.  They are merely scanning a thousand pages for anything that seems to match up with history.  If it was actual prediction, it would come before the event and be clear enough for a person to know before it happens.

David and all,

A number of tricksters are at best wannabees, lacking knowledge.  Some false prophets are what would be called fakestirs today.  They would also be called sincere but self deluded.  

The prophecy in Scripture is often not clear except to those that believe and then after the fact.  Prophecy tends to work that way whether the prophet is true or false.

Mankind still consults prophets on a regular basis though we as a people seem to prefer the appearance of scientific methodology and technology.

[terraricca]

I like the for cast on what men can do to fix the poluded ocean : nothing

Or on the nuclear waste disposal : nothing

What about to fix the pollution in our rivers : nothing

What can any one do : nothing

But how will it be solved : we do not know (politician and science )

But who is paying to maintaining the statut quo ? The people does ,this everyone knows

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