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Quote (t8 @ Nov. 27 2012,12:44) Supposedly when the believers got their act together or something like that. The first century I think.
Then they believed that Jesus returned in 1914, of course I wasn't around, but I doubt that this is the Millennial reign.So all the gifts, casting out demons, etc, is all demonic now.
Looks the same, smells the same, but changed from godly to the realm of demons in one swoop.The biggest concern I have with this view is that the gifts are from the Holy Spirit. So to call that demonic is certainly blasphemy. Insulting Jesus is not as serious as insulting God and his Spirit.
This teaching is very dangerous for this reason.
T8, perhaps you don't read my posts to you.I have explained that JW believe that the gifts of the spirit have been done away with. This has nothing to do at all in any way with my study of and search for miracles. If I just accepted it, I would not have need to look, would I?
As well, this ceasing of the gifts of the spirit has nothing to do with demon activity.For the record, JW's don't believe that all miraculous events ceased. They find miraculous things in their preaching work for example: coincidences, etc. but, these are considered done by THE HOLY SPIRIT and are not considered “gifts of the spirit”–like healing or talking in tongues, etc.
And, for the record, as I've already told you at least once, JW's believe that things like ouija boards are possessed, and dangerous spiritually. They believe close to you in this. I have a more open mind, and understand trickery better than most. I am looking at the evidence as much as I can. Despite searching for it, I have yet to find it. I haven't looked into kerwins suggestions yet however.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2012,13:40) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,19:44) The biggest concern I have with this view is that the gifts are from the Holy Spirit.
I agree. To say that nothing supernatural happens in this day and age is to say that the Holy Spirit no longer works among God's children.
T8 wove a false story.See previous post. See previous posts to back up previous post.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,11:32) Further, the real reason you take the view you do is because you believe by reason of the dictations of your denomination that these things have ceased. And why do you think that? Because it is written that when the perfect comes these things will cease. So let's get real here. Your whole argument here stands on one interpretation of one scripture and all of us here know that interpretation is wrong. These things have not ceased. They will cease when Jesus returns because there will be no more need for them especially when the enemy is cast into his prison.
And on that subject, Jesus returned in 1914 according to you if you believe all the dictations of the JWs. Yet we know that if someone say he is here or there, then do not believe him.
These are the real issues as to why you believe what you do. No amount of psychological reasoning is going to make up for a bad interpretation of one scripture and a false prediction as to the coming of Christ. Perhaps psychologically speaking you try to come across as intelligent and understanding of the mind of man to make up for these obvious foolish things. A sort of cover up.
STRAW MAN FALLACY.You are creating an unrelated argument, perhaps with a hint of ad hominin, to help your case.
As I have pointed out to you many times already: none of this in any way has to do with what JW believe. Why would it?
They believe as you do. Do you understand that? Regarding demons, they believe just as you do. So please let go of your false reasoning.
You FALSELY STATE that I believe as the dictation a of a religion.
This idea actually DISPROVES what you say. As I've said already, by all rights I should believe as you do regarding demons today. I have had peer pressure to believe such (as you do). I have been told to believe such. (As you do). Yet, I, more than anyone I know, FAR MORE than anyone I know, far far far more than anyone I know, examined these things closely. I found deception. I found people like you. I found people who create fallacies and lie and do anything they can to support a belief that is so emotional to them, and so close to the core of their beliefs. And so irrational and unprovable.
Your argument, if you think it proves something, now that you again are shown to be wrong, it should prove the opposite. But, will you accept at? No. Blind people sadden me.
UNANSWERED:
Posted: Nov. 26 2012,02:29
CONSIDER THIS:Hundreds of times I have read articles where a person is praying for help, perhaps in tears, looking for God, and then, guess who knocks on the door?
This is understood to be somewhat miraculous, a proof that God is at work, guiding them to honest hearted ones, who are seeking out truth.
What are the chances that a person would be praying, and then that moment, a person with Bible in hand would appear at their very door? It is miraculous, right. It is proof that God was guiding them to that door, right?
There are hundreds or perhaps thousands of these experiences. Sometimes the person is suicidal, given up on life, seeking meaning. Seeking a reason. Seeking anything. Seeking an answer. Seeking God. Praying, begging, desperately hoping for help, (for social contact to fill the emotional void in their life.)
And then the door bell rings. The person makes a connection in their mind. Is this a coincidence? How could it be? I was asking for this. I was pleading for this. And the door bell rang, with this lovely lady who read comforting scriptures to me. It was a sign from God. How else could it be taken. It is the strongest, the very strongest of evidence FOR THAT PERSON, and given that feeling, that miracle, do we think they will look for confirmation bias to back up their anecdotal experience, their miracle, the meaning that has now been brought to their life? Yes. They probably will.
t8, are these miracles?
or, is it a misunderstanding of math, statistics, and the human mind and its willingness to see meaning where there is none? (2 million witnesses going out on a Saturday means they should run into thousands that have either just been praying or are presently praying.).
Hits–remember
Misses–forget
You have to ALWAYS look at the whole.t8, a couple in service were about to quite, but one of them had a feeling: “lets do just one more bouse.” When they found jack in tears praying, about to kill himself, was it a miracle? Jack thought so.
What do you think?
————–
“Let no man deceive you with empty words….”–Eph 5:6WHAT DO OTHERS THINK? Mike? what do you think? Are these miracles?
IF NOT. WHY?
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 27 2012,06:49) Quote (david @ Nov. 26 2012,11:04) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,11:18) Quote (david @ Nov. 26 2012,13:53) “Interesting thing about experiences is that people often frame them into their cultural experience.”–t8 Agreed.
The cultural experience I am using is the biblical understanding of these things. You are using a non-biblical one. This is the point. I too could use a non-biblical understanding if I didn't believe the biblical interpretation of such things. But I have faith in God and scripture and so obviously I choose that because I believe it is true.
I really want to study Elizabeth knapp if I have a week or two of free time. What I do know about her and what I suspect of the vast majority of demon possession cases is that they occur in people that have a cultural bias towards such things. She was a Puritan. If something she doesn't understand happens to her, the people around her will of course have a great tendency to frame it with the cultural experience she grew up in. “Be afraid of the devil” was no doubt burnt into her brain. Do groups that don't believe in demon possession find them self possessed?
David,Demons are invisible and so all you have is symptoms to diagnose by. A people who did not believe in demons would not reach as diagnosis of demon possession.
I am curious how they explain the use of foreign languages, such as occurred in a more recent case documented by Dr. Richard E. Gallagher, a psychiatrist. Witnesses testify the possessed woman also spoke with a male-like voice and levitated. Both she, a Roman Catholic, and the doctor believe in demon possession.
Hi kerwin.Just started looking at this. In response to gallaghers article, one person depresses many thoughts I also have:
“Very well written and balanced. I admire Dr. Gallagher for his candor. However, I have some complaints. Dr. Gallagher indicates that several paranormal events took place – for example, the levitation. I understand that Catholic exorcisms are recorded, whether via audio or videotape. Was this event captured on video? If not, why not? In replying to letters to the editor, Dr. Gallagher responded that demons would apparently not care to “perform for a camera.” Presumably, demons will do whatever they do and not necessarily cease what they’re doing because a camera is rolling. By stating that demons are not interested in performing for the camera, Dr. Gallagher seems to make light of an astounding event which defied the laws of physics. One might object that a person of faith should not seek “proof” of such occurrences. However, if this event took place, it would be a factual occurrence warranting further study/investigation. If human beings value knowledge and growth, an attempt at documenting such an amazing event should be strongly encouraged. Further, I see nothing wrong with people looking to some paranormal events in support of their faith. After all, the church documents miraculous events. Perhaps I am a doubting Thomas, but even Jesus let Thomas feel his wounds when Thomas wanted proof. With respect to the appropriateness of seeking some type of “proof,” by writing his article, isn’t Dr. Gallagher doing the very same thing? Indeed, at the beginning of his article, he states that the chief goal is to document a clear-cut case of demonic possession amid confusion and skepticism, and offers tantalizing indications of numerous paranormal occurrences. I have great respect for Dr. Gallagher and this fascinating article and topic, but it appears that Dr. Gallagher wants it both ways. He wants to be able to offer tantalizing information, but then does not seem too interested in actually obtaining and providing documentation of the paranormal. I hope that Dr. Gallagher responds and at least shares more of his views and perhaps provide further information/explanations. I also wonder whether Dr. Gallagher has witnessed other paranormal events at other exorcisms. If so, I would hope he would share such invaluable information.
There are other reasons for the appropriateness of attempting to document an event such as the levitation. Ockham’s razor, for example, indicates that the simplest explanation is usually the right one (or, put another way, the best explanation is usually the one which assumes the least). Here, what is more likely – that in the incredible stress of the situation, religious people already inclined to believe were mistaken or exaggerating about what they think they saw or that an invisible monster from another world was rearing its ugly head? Clearly, if one is inclined to think scientifically, one would not conclude that the latter answer is the right one; thus, the appropriateness of a videotape to document such an incredible event. Also, with respect to mistake and exaggeration, this is very real. I recall reading statements made by a priest (I think one of the priests involved in the case upon which the movie The Exorcist is based) that the tendency to exaggerate what was happening was great. It is not hard to imagine that the five people attempting to hold down the woman saw only parts of her body while other parts remained on the bed. As we all know, people lie too. I certainly don’t believe that is the case here, but my point is that there might be simpler explanations for seemingly paranormal phenomena. In any event, if you can do it, why not grab a camera and start recording?
I also note that more details of the levitation would be nice to have. Dr. Gallagher does not specify whether he witnessed the levitation or was just relaying the reports of the nuns. Did the woman’s entire body levitate at the same time, or only parts of her body, such as her legs? Also, if 2 nuns and 3 others were attempting to hold her down, I would think it would not necessarily be easy to see what was going on. Just some thoughts.
I understand that there could be privacy concerns with recording and subsequently showing an exorcism. However, it is done (some years back, for example, 20/20 showed a Catholic exorcism). I imagine the individual involved could consent to the release of a videorecording. Alternatively, the individual’s face could be blurred and other measures taken.
I know that my comments are somewhat critical, but, as I stated, I have great respect for Dr. Gallagher. I studied philosophy and law (and have read quite a bit about exorcism too!), and I suppose I’m trained to question, doubt, and probe into facts. Hopefully, we can learn more about this fascinating subject area, with the input of the likes of Dr. Gallagher.”
Gallagher seems like an interesting guy:
Dr. Gallagher is the only American psychiatrist to have been a consistent U.S. delegate to the International Association of Exorcists.
The story was originally published in NEW OXFORD REVIEW. The “about us” page says:
“The New Oxford Review is an orthodox Catholic magazine that explores ideas concerning faith and culture.”
So, to start, we know that the this psychiatrist, who speaks at the International Association of Exorcists, and is a consistent US delegate, published his story in a Catholic magazine.
Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,10:31) UNANSWERED: Posted: Nov. 26 2012,02:29
CONSIDER THIS:Hundreds of times I have read articles where a person is praying for help, perhaps in tears, looking for God, and then, guess who knocks on the door?
This is understood to be somewhat miraculous, a proof that God is at work, guiding them to honest hearted ones, who are seeking out truth.
What are the chances that a person would be praying, and then that moment, a person with Bible in hand would appear at their very door? It is miraculous, right. It is proof that God was guiding them to that door, right?
There are hundreds or perhaps thousands of these experiences. Sometimes the person is suicidal, given up on life, seeking meaning. Seeking a reason. Seeking anything. Seeking an answer. Seeking God. Praying, begging, desperately hoping for help, (for social contact to fill the emotional void in their life.)
And then the door bell rings. The person makes a connection in their mind. Is this a coincidence? How could it be? I was asking for this. I was pleading for this. And the door bell rang, with this lovely lady who read comforting scriptures to me. It was a sign from God. How else could it be taken. It is the strongest, the very strongest of evidence FOR THAT PERSON, and given that feeling, that miracle, do we think they will look for confirmation bias to back up their anecdotal experience, their miracle, the meaning that has now been brought to their life? Yes. They probably will.
t8, are these miracles?
or, is it a misunderstanding of math, statistics, and the human mind and its willingness to see meaning where there is none? (2 million witnesses going out on a Saturday means they should run into thousands that have either just been praying or are presently praying.).
Hits–remember
Misses–forget
You have to ALWAYS look at the whole.t8, a couple in service were about to quite, but one of them had a feeling: “lets do just one more bouse.” When they found jack in tears praying, about to kill himself, was it a miracle? Jack thought so.
What do you think?
————–
“Let no man deceive you with empty words….”–Eph 5:6WHAT DO OTHERS THINK? Mike? what do you think? Are these miracles?
IF NOT. WHY?
DI have always wander about that, my question was it the message and the scriptures that God wanted to make known
Or was it the WTBTS,??? Or both ???Or some thing altogether different I can tell some of those stories as well ,
The article was published in March 2008.
The article has few details.
This psychiatrist has not followed up his article with a publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
It was picked up by wnd.com, (world nut daily) which doesn't seem to be a site that people take seriously.
I also find it interesting that most of the people to observe her had religous backrounds (nuns, preists).
The one psychiatrist that was most noted to observe these incidences is a Roman Catholic seminary.
And who were the “lay assistants” and what did their backgrounds consist of?
Also, what was their opinion on the matter. They left that part out.In other news: Bigfoot researcher sees Bigfoot! I think that's the kind of stories this magazine produces.
I dislike the idea that these things can't be videotaped because then atheists would start to believe in demons and the demons don't want that. If that was true, just send atheists to the supposedly possessed person. Their symptoms will vanish.
Everyone has a camera on their cell phone now.
TERRAICA, could you please answer the question that I asked in the post you quoted? The question I made bold.
Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,12:25) TERRAICA, could you please answer the question that I asked in the post you quoted? The question I made bold.
DI call that interventions by angels ,for reasons ?
And if an intervention would be or can be defined as a miracle then I guess it would be a miracle,But I have notice that God does not save someone for that person himself ,sometime yes but their could be other factors ,
Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,12:24) The article was published in March 2008.
The article has few details.
This psychiatrist has not followed up his article with a publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
It was picked up by wnd.com, (world nut daily) which doesn't seem to be a site that people take seriously.
I also find it interesting that most of the people to observe her had religous backrounds (nuns, preists).
The one psychiatrist that was most noted to observe these incidences is a Roman Catholic seminary.
And who were the “lay assistants” and what did their backgrounds consist of?
Also, what was their opinion on the matter. They left that part out.In other news: Bigfoot researcher sees Bigfoot! I think that's the kind of stories this magazine produces.
I dislike the idea that these things can't be videotaped because then atheists would start to believe in demons and the demons don't want that. If that was true, just send atheists to the supposedly possessed person. Their symptoms will vanish.
Everyone has a camera on their cell phone now.
David,You sound like an atheist so what you would say an atheist will say.
One is to attack the messenger when there message is deemed threatening. Members of the Catholic Church are no more prone to deception than those “peers” in a so called peer review journal.
A peer reviewed journal is a journal of Belial and thus not trustworthy by definition. Of course neither is a Roman Catholic magazine; as they are heretics.
Demons are self willed extremely tricky creatures that will do what they desire and not what you desire.
There were a number of psychiatrists on the scene though I am not sure what their names are; not having access to the whole article.
The victim is said to have messed around with Satanism and to be a less than devout Roman Catholic. The levitation may have been trickery on her part if she was strong enough to have held herself up or may have a natural explanation. It is also possible that people spoke of their private matters in her presence and the forgot about them. Experts have been fooled by trickery but I am not going to jump to the conclusion that is what happened.
Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,18:18) T8, do you believe that psychosis is real?
Do you believe in Voluntary termination of pregnancy?
Well if you mean abortion, then yes.See what I am trying to avoid? No. Okay, I am trying to avoid the connotations that come with what you are saying. Let me explain.
Do I believe that psychosis is real. Yes, if you are willing to understand that such conditions can be caused by demons even today, then yes I believe that there is a term that is used in the medical profession for something that could well be a demon when you dig deeper.
Jesus cast demons out of people that had mental problems. He didn't give them drugs or call it psychosis or any other condition. Was Jesus just ignorant?
Jesus also healed people with medical problems such as the women with an issue of blood. He didn't cast a demon out of her, but did out of the mentally unstable people that called out to him. So was Jesus deluded about demons?
What I am saying david, is that I am with Jesus when it comes to this subject. Would you have told Jesus that casting a demon out was a waste of time because they are psychotic or mentally unstable and not possessed. And what medical term do you give the man who lived in the grave site. Would you say to Jesus that this man needs drugs, not a demon cast out of him.
Your unbelief in demons at work today is on par with Atheists who also believe that.
Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,18:27) STRAW MAN FALLACY. You are creating an unrelated argument, perhaps with a hint of ad hominin, to help your case.
As I have pointed out to you many times already: none of this in any way has to do with what JW believe. Why would it?
They believe as you do. Do you understand that? Regarding demons, they believe just as you do. So please let go of your false reasoning.
You FALSELY STATE that I believe as the dictation a of a religion.
This idea actually DISPROVES what you say. As I've said already, by all rights I should believe as you do regarding demons today. I have had peer pressure to believe such (as you do). I have been told to believe such. (As you do). Yet, I, more than anyone I know, FAR MORE than anyone I know, far far far more than anyone I know, examined these things closely. I found deception. I found people like you. I found people who create fallacies and lie and do anything they can to support a belief that is so emotional to them, and so close to the core of their beliefs. And so irrational and unprovable.
Your argument, if you think it proves something, now that you again are shown to be wrong, it should prove the opposite. But, will you accept at? No. Blind people sadden me.
david, please rewind the tape.This reaction of yours started when I told you about something I experienced that you denied even though it is specifically forbidden in scripture for some reason which is kind of strange given that it is not suppose to be real.
You doubted my experience and that is fine you are allowed to do that. I might even do that if you had told me that this happened to you and if I had never experienced something like that. But no, you took this further and said I was 100% deluded and that talking to spirits could not be real nor seeing a physical effect from a spirit.
Now you are saying that you know far far far more than anyone and that you are correct. So tell me david. Who is the one who is likely deluded. The one who has an experience of something and has no agenda to push but casually mentions it because the subject was brought up, or the one who thinks he knows far far far more than anyone and based on his far superior knowledge knows that the person who experienced what he did is 100% wrong even though he was not there to say whether it is true or not. Well on the outset, your claim certainly seems dubious to anyone even as mine might to you.
As a side note david, here is some advice. With an argument like that, never become a lawyer. You would be laughed out of the courtroom and the client would want his money back plus damages.
Moving on. In replying to your accusations that I was culturally or contextually confused about the experience, I set out to prove that in fact you were culturally and contextually confused about the subject because as a faithful JW, you would have to believe that there are no gifts of the spirit and that demon activity in my case had to be wrong although I am not sure of the latter point as far as JW doctrine is concerned. I certainly built a case that demonstrated that your belief was based on a doctrine, secondly on an understanding of magic and illusions in general of which you are the self-appointed expert and how dare anyone argue against you.
Now had you said I find that hard to believe or even very hard to believe but it could have been possible, then that would have shown non-bias and clarity from a mind that was not tainted by a preconceived false doctrine.
Instead however, you make the outrageous case that I definitely did not see what I saw, and so you make yourself out to be all knowing in this respect. This was the real problem david. If I told you that I am 100% sure that you are not saved, then what would you think? But if I replied that I think there is a chance that you may not because of this or that, then would that not be a more fairer judgement because I am not making myself out to be all knowing about this and I am not passing final judgment on you either, but am simply giving you perhaps some good reasons as to why this may be possible.
Now let's go back to your comment, “I know, FAR MORE than anyone I know, far far far more than anyone”.
This sounds very familiar to me.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Can you see the similarity.
david, no amount of self promotion and shouting about how you are the expert of experts is going to change a person who has experienced something first hand and is sure of what he experienced. Likewise, no amount of scientific data or Atheistic reasoning is going to sway me away from belief in God. And why is that? because I have experienced God and even if I gave the Atheist argument a 10% chance of being true, then I would still be a fool to give up on God after experiencing him would I not? And the fact that these experiences cannot be compared to anything the world offers means that all the more I would be a fool to believe the self appointed expert Atheist to deny an experience that was the best thing I have experienced ever.
I have my testimony david. And although it may not be proof to you, it is proof to me because I was there. I have experienced many things that prove to me that God is real and there is a spiritual realm and that there is spiritual wickedness in high places. I have seen and experienced many such things first hand, so they are proof to me. You can argue all you like and the Atheist can argue all he likes, but I have my testimony which is far greater than any argument you can conceive.
Could you imagine how foolish a man would be to deny his own testimony and experience because a self-appointed expert told him he must deny it.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 27 2012,19:21) Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,12:24) The article was published in March 2008.
The article has few details.
This psychiatrist has not followed up his article with a publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
It was picked up by wnd.com, (world nut daily) which doesn't seem to be a site that people take seriously.
I also find it interesting that most of the people to observe her had religous backrounds (nuns, preists).
The one psychiatrist that was most noted to observe these incidences is a Roman Catholic seminary.
And who were the “lay assistants” and what did their backgrounds consist of?
Also, what was their opinion on the matter. They left that part out.In other news: Bigfoot researcher sees Bigfoot! I think that's the kind of stories this magazine produces.
I dislike the idea that these things can't be videotaped because then atheists would start to believe in demons and the demons don't want that. If that was true, just send atheists to the supposedly possessed person. Their symptoms will vanish.
Everyone has a camera on their cell phone now.
David,You sound like an atheist so what you would say an atheist will say.
One is to attack the messenger when there message is deemed threatening. Members of the Catholic Church are no more prone to deception than those “peers” in a so called peer review journal.
A peer reviewed journal is a journal of Belial and thus not trustworthy by definition. Of course neither is a Roman Catholic magazine; as they are heretics.
Demons are self willed extremely tricky creatures that will do what they desire and not what you desire.
There were a number of psychiatrists on the scene though I am not sure what their names are; not having access to the whole article.
The victim is said to have messed around with Satanism and to be a less than devout Roman Catholic. The levitation may have been trickery on her part if she was strong enough to have held herself up or may have a natural explanation. It is also possible that people spoke of their private matters in her presence and the forgot about them. Experts have been fooled by trickery but I am not going to jump to the conclusion that is what happened.
Now, at least nine people are witnessing levitation of a human (not a magic show) for 30 minutes, the first time in modern history at least, that such an event occurs, and no one says,”Quick, find a camera! No one is going to believe this!”Where are the transcripts of all the interviews, to find out if all witnessed the same thing.
I just now that if someone was floating in my living room for more than 5 seconds, I would think forward: we are going to speak of this, and most won't believe. Why don't I at least take a picture, if not video?
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 27 2012,17:37) Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,12:25) TERRAICA, could you please answer the question that I asked in the post you quoted? The question I made bold.
DI call that interventions by angels ,for reasons ?
And if an intervention would be or can be defined as a miracle then I guess it would be a miracle,But I have notice that God does not save someone for that person himself ,sometime yes but their could be other factors ,
Terrarica, so you believe in these cases, God is I terse ing in human affairs, and causing angels to lead witnesses to people who are calling for help through prayer?Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 27 2012,17:36)
WAKEUP. You seem fascinated with levitation for some reason.This clip is extremely extremely extremely extremely extremely fake.
The second I saw the blanket background I knew exactly what he was going to do. Think back to the criss angel levitation where ere was the jerky motion and the swing. Similarly, when this guy “levitated” off the ground, there was a jerky motion. Mechanical things act that way. Behind the blanket there is a device with a pole on it that attaches to the person. And lifts him up. But, being mechanical, you often see that jerky motion when it first engages. But you don't even need to see that. The blankets are enough. Why does he have to sit 2 feet in front of the backdrop?
The guy who appears to be interested in this is in in it.
WAKEUP, I can have you levitating small objects right in front of people if you like.
See David Blaine's first special. It was focused around this levitation people weren't familiar with. It WASNT the levitation itself but his editing methods that were the real magic. It was so ply brilliant. And it sort of changed the way tv magic is done.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 27 2012,19:21) Quote (david @ Nov. 27 2012,12:24) The article was published in March 2008.
The article has few details.
This psychiatrist has not followed up his article with a publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
It was picked up by wnd.com, (world nut daily) which doesn't seem to be a site that people take seriously.
I also find it interesting that most of the people to observe her had religous backrounds (nuns, preists).
The one psychiatrist that was most noted to observe these incidences is a Roman Catholic seminary.
And who were the “lay assistants” and what did their backgrounds consist of?
Also, what was their opinion on the matter. They left that part out.In other news: Bigfoot researcher sees Bigfoot! I think that's the kind of stories this magazine produces.
I dislike the idea that these things can't be videotaped because then atheists would start to believe in demons and the demons don't want that. If that was true, just send atheists to the supposedly possessed person. Their symptoms will vanish.
Everyone has a camera on their cell phone now.
David,You sound like an atheist so what you would say an atheist will say.
One is to attack the messenger when there message is deemed threatening. Members of the Catholic Church are no more prone to deception than those “peers” in a so called peer review journal.
A peer reviewed journal is a journal of Belial and thus not trustworthy by definition. Of course neither is a Roman Catholic magazine; as they are heretics.
Demons are self willed extremely tricky creatures that will do what they desire and not what you desire.
There were a number of psychiatrists on the scene though I am not sure what their names are; not having access to the whole article.
The victim is said to have messed around with Satanism and to be a less than devout Roman Catholic. The levitation may have been trickery on her part if she was strong enough to have held herself up or may have a natural explanation. It is also possible that people spoke of their private matters in her presence and the forgot about them. Experts have been fooled by trickery but I am not going to jump to the conclusion that is what happened.
Kerwin, sometimes, when I want to suspend disbelief and enjoy the same feeling of mystery you do, I watch a tv show where they hunt Bigfoot. The head “researcher” has been hunting them for 30 years. He just knows they are real based on stories of people that have stories.Whenever a Bigfoot researcher says: “ah, a definite Bigfoot evidence” I seem to want to be skeptical, because I know how much he wants it to be evidence. I want him to be right. Who doesn't? But, I know he has bias.
Same with this psychiatrist who is into exorcism.
It's very easy to find one or two professionals who have ideas counter to the rest of the profession. Believe me, I know.
I also know that a ton of people want to make a name for themselves. Popularity and fame are important to some. I have reason not to blindly accept fantastical claims, especially given my background.
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