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Nick……….Amen to that, lets hold out Hope for (ALL) and let GOD determine the punishment or mercy He will extend to each and every one Brother, We are being Judged now and it is not easy for us either, there is much sorrow in all whose eyes have been opened, but God is merciful and will not put on us more then we can bear and with his strength we will endure unto the end. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Tim Kraft @ April 26 2009,21:42) thinker: Here are some thoughts. Christ is,”Christos” the annointing of God. God cannot be separate from his own power. God is everywhere, at least there is no place I've heard of where he is not. God does not come and go nor does the Christos. Only in our minds can there ever be a separation from God and that's not Truth its a lie. Another thought, Jesus did leave the physical world but just as he said he would he came again at the resurrection and at least five more times he returned to the earth physically to show himself to all his disciples as victorious over death. This was all before 70AD–Actually, Jesus still returns just like he said he would to each individual that accepts him as Lord of their Truth. Each time that happens the Word of God is made flesh in a man. Thanks, TK
TK………..Good Post brother, I also believe GOD is ever present by His Spirit that in in us all> Spirit is expressed by Words (intellect) and that is the life of a man. “So a man thinks so he IS”> IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2009,17:14) G,
What is written is that those who do not come to the Son are lost by that choice.[Jn3]But God also says mercy triumphs over judgement and will rescue more sheep at the end because of their actions.[mt25
I have no idea which scripture you speak of in Matthew 25 since there is the parable of the Ten Virgins the point of which is:
Matthew 25:13(NIV) reads:
Quote “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
There is also the parable of the Talents which concludes:
Matthew 25:29(NIV) reads:
Quote For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
and last there is the Sheep and the Goats that ends.
Matthew 25:46(NIV) reads:
Quote “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
None of these seem to support what you wrote and some seem to contradict it.
Now James does say “mercy triumphs over judgment” and I assure you the one that truly loves their neighbor as themselves will not be subject to hellfire.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2009,21:38) Hi TT,
So not only did we miss one version of this trinity in scripture but two?
What a full time job it is patching the leaks in this condemned vessel.
Nick,
Please read my post again. I am NOT saying that there are two Trinities. I am saying that during the Mosaic economy the Trinity dispensed the plan of salvation with each of the three members assuming their ordained roles of Father, Son and Holy Spirit; and that they were to known as such. Now that the Mosaic law has been totally fulfilled the Trinity is simply to be known as GOD without such distinctions.God is all in all now.
thinker
Thinker……….If you would expand the TRINITY to include all things You might be more right Brother. That (ONE GOD) in ALL and through ALL> IMO
Peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ April 27 2009,01:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2009,21:38) Hi TT,
So not only did we miss one version of this trinity in scripture but two?
What a full time job it is patching the leaks in this condemned vessel.
Nick,
Please read my post again. I am NOT saying that there are two Trinities. I am saying that during the Mosaic economy the Trinity dispensed the plan of salvation with each of the three members assuming their ordained roles of Father, Son and Holy Spirit; and that they were to known as such. Now that the Mosaic law has been totally fulfilled the Trinity is simply to be known as GOD without such distinctions.God is all in all now.
thinker
Salvation has always been obtained the same way which is why it is written “the righteous will live by faith”. Believe God and your faith will give birth to deeds and so by your faith you are saved.
Quote (thethinker @ April 27 2009,06:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2009,21:38) Hi TT,
So not only did we miss one version of this trinity in scripture but two?
What a full time job it is patching the leaks in this condemned vessel.
Nick,
Please read my post again. I am NOT saying that there are two Trinities. I am saying that during the Mosaic economy the Trinity dispensed the plan of salvation with each of the three members assuming their ordained roles of Father, Son and Holy Spirit; and that they were to known as such. Now that the Mosaic law has been totally fulfilled the Trinity is simply to be known as GOD without such distinctions.God is all in all now.
thinker
Hi TT,
Moses did not speak of any form of trinity.
Neither did Jesus or any of the prophets or apostles.So where did this bizarre idea spring from and in what way does it help us?
Thinker……….If you would expand the TRINITY to include all things You might be more right Brother. That (ONE GOD) is in ALL and through ALL> Remember it says, that GOD was (IN) Christ reconciling the Whole World unto himself. If you could only see, that GOD is SPIRIT and there is (ONLY ONE) GOD, but can indwell anyone or anything He wants to brother including Us also. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
G ,
The reconciliation offered in Jesus was not taken up by all.
So the apostles and God's servants continued and continue that work.2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,2 Corinthians 5:19
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.It is not magic or an amnesty but according to the response to the gospel of grace.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2009,21:38) Hi TT,
So not only did we miss one version of this trinity in scripture but two?
What a full time job it is patching the leaks in this condemned vessel.
Hi NH
Sometimes your post are so ludicrous they are funny.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2009,07:45) G,
God is not in sinners.
You should know the God of righteousness does not dwell in sin.
NIck………So are you saying GOD is not in us then, because obviously we are all sinners right according to John, He that says he has no sin is a liar. So GOD was not in Peter or Paul either according to you statement. Was he Just in Jesus then and no other? And why does it say for He (GOD) was the light the enlightens ever man coming into the world. I think you wrong on this one brother.peace and love to you and yours…………gene
G,
There is sin and sin [1 Jn5 ] and not all lead to death.
It is impossible to walk in the dusty streets of sinful earth and not need our feet washed.[jn13]
That is why we clean our temples daily by praying daily for forgiveness.[Mt6]Nick………So then GOD does dwell with us even if we have some “Dust” right? I really don't think sin is going to separate us from the love of our Heavenly FATHER. He will Chasten us even scourge us if need be, His Fiery Judgments is an ever cleansing flame, his purpose for us will be done. Honor and Glory to HIM for ever and ever. IMO
love and peace to you and yours brother…………………..gene
Nick………Please don't take that as i am saying it OK to sin, Like Kerwin the false accuser does, I am not saying that.
Hi Kathi
I am still working on your previous post because you bring up an interesting point.
But in response to the verse you quote…
Quote (Lightenup @ April 26 2009,13:23)
Keith,
To think that the beginning of John 1:1 has to be before the Light was called forth is a narrower opinion than I believe God had in mind.
Of course it is the “narrower” opinion because it is the truth and doesn’t need any special pleading or inference. John in the content of the verse is speaking of a specific point in time when the Word was with God and was God. John obviously is appealing to Gen 1:1 “In the Beginning”. If John believed what you are saying then he would not have waited to speak of the “light”, that you think is Jesus the light of day one which cannot be true because the “evening and the morning were the first day”. Before John mentions the light he states “All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made”. Can't you see that?Quote (Lightenup @ April 26 2009,13:23)
Consider this verse:Mark 10:6-7
6 “But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.
NASU
Do you continue to insist that the beginning couldn't have included day one and the formless and void earth that was there on day one of creation.
Yes. The verse that you quote changes nothing because we know that “the beginning of the creation” started in Gen 1:1 and ended after the sixth day. The question is when did God “begin” to create the HEAVENS and the EARTH? Gen 1:1, 2.Do you still insist that the light came before Genesis 1, 2.
This must be desperate for you Kathi because it blows a hole in your “God bringing birth to God” theory.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 26 2009,13:23)
The Bible speaks of a formless and void earth in the beginning.
But the earth was there before the light of day one. What about the “heavens” and earth in Gen 1:1?Quote (Lightenup @ April 26 2009,13:23)
That didn't change till AFTER day one. The Light was there in the beginning, during the earliest times of the earth. Please pray about this and open your heart.
KathiI do not need to pray Kathi for I just accept the scripture as it is. The earth and the Heavens were already there before the light. “Let there be light” and Jesus came forth?
Jesus was not spoken into existence. Jesus spoke everything into existence.
“APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING. ” John 1:3
Blessings Keith
Quote (Gene @ April 27 2009,16:57) Nick………So then GOD does dwell with us even if we have some “Dust” right? I really don't think sin is going to separate us from the love of our Heavenly FATHER. He will Chasten us even scourge us if need be, His Fiery Judgments is an ever cleansing flame, his purpose for us will be done. Honor and Glory to HIM for ever and ever. IMO love and peace to you and yours brother…………………..gene
G,
God is close to all men[Ps139, acts17]
But God is IN His children.[Eph2, Phil2]Hi Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ April 26 2009,12:27)
Oh Keith,
Now you are saying that the Father looked like Jesus, a person with brown hair, brown eyes probably. If that is the case why does He say this:
No Kathi, I am simply quoting Jesus own words.If you really knew me, “YOU WOULD KNOW MY FATHER AS WELL. FROM NOW ON, YOU DO KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM. John 14:7
You can read into it what you want and I am quite sure that you will. But, I do want to point out a few things. But instead of doing this here I will just create another thread.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 26 2009,12:27)
John 6:46-47
“Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
NASUThe above verse is talking about no one seeing His physical appearance.
Below Jesus is implying that the disciples have seen the Father BECAUSE He represents the Father's works and words perfectly. They could see the character of the Father…NOT His form.
John 14:9-12
aHe who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. NASUWhy is that so hard for you to see?
KathiIf Jesus using personal pronouns for himself saying…
If you really knew me, “YOU WOULD KNOW MY FATHER AS WELL. FROM NOW ON, YOU DO KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM. John 14:7
is only what you are implying then he could have said….
If you really knew me, “YOU WOULD KNOW MY FATHER AS WELL. FROM NOW ON, YOU DO KNOW HIM (IN ME) AND HAVE SEEN HIM (IN ME). John 14:7
My point is not on the physical. You are making the assumption that is what I am saying.
And also if it is just the Father in him then why can’t every person that has the Spirit make the declaration if you “Know me” you would know God also, and “If you have seen me” then you have seen God. The fact that it is the Father in him and therefore he is not claiming to be God is a mute point because Jesus is also in the Father.
What does “Image of the invisible God” mean to you? To me it means God has made himself visible. In the above scriptures Jesus is claiming Deity. His response was to Philips question to “see the Father, God”.
Do you have a better understanding of that? If You do please let me know. The
Word/God came in the ‘likeness’ of sinful flesh and was found ‘in fashion’ as a man.
Also, as far as your point that no man has seen God at anytime is not meaning what you think. It means no man has seen the Father who is Spirit, yet this does not mean that God can not appear in human form.
Many in the OT saw YHWH and spoke direcly to him as face to face even as speaking to a man. I believe a close study of this will reveal that it was Jesus the invisible Word/God that made himself visible.
WJ
Quote (Gene @ April 27 2009,07:32) Thinker……….If you would expand the TRINITY to include all things You might be more right Brother. That (ONE GOD) in ALL and through ALL> IMO Peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Brother Gene,
Before I answer your question I want to publically declare that I love you more than anyone else on this board. I just love you man.Now to give an overview of my views of the trinity,
In the beginning there was “Elohim” the plural God without any names or distinctions. They existed as three distinct persons co-eternal and co-equal in power and glory. They had no names. Then man sinned and Elohim wanted to redeem him. So Elohim in order to communicate with man condescended. He (They) adopted names that coincided with the cultures of the time. Consequently, Elohim ordained the “father and son” roles according to the cultures because it was dictated by those cultures that father and son together redeem. It was accomodation on Elohim's part.
The name “Father” is a name by decree and so is the name “Son.” It was for the purpose of our salvation. It was necessary that Elohim communicate in a way that man could understand so that Elohim could redeem man. The plan of redemption was indeed accomplished when the Son completed His intercessory work and returned in AD70.
After the work of redemption was completed things went back to the way they were before. It's just “God” again without such distinctions. However, the “Son” who entered into history and died is still to be believed upon though He does not have the name “Son” now.
thinker
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