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Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 26 2009,10:41) Gene said: Quote Now we need to ask ourselves why would GOD the FATHER do that, Is it not that the Father takes full responsibility for all the sin of the earth , Gene,
John the baptist disagrees with you. He said that Jesus took awaythe sins of the world,
God “took the responsibility” and sent Jesus.Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2009,06:26) Hi tt,
Please be accurate.
Jn1
John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Nick,
Are you saying that Jesus was not the Lamb of God?thinker
Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 27 2009,07:17) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 26 2009,10:41) Gene said: Quote Now we need to ask ourselves why would GOD the FATHER do that, Is it not that the Father takes full responsibility for all the sin of the earth , Gene,
John the baptist disagrees with you. He said that Jesus took awaythe sins of the world,
God “took the responsibility” and sent Jesus.Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Seeking,
Agreed. But Gene said that the Father took “full responsibility” as if the Son had no part in it. Speaking of Jesus Peter said,Quote Wh in His own self bore our sins in His own body on the tree (2 Peter 2:24) It was Jesus who was beaten and spit upon and tortured and mutilated and put to death. The Father didn't do the actual suffering.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 27 2009,09:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2009,06:26) Hi tt,
Please be accurate.
Jn1
John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Nick,
Are you saying that Jesus was not the Lamb of God?thinker
Hi tt,
Check your postTAKES AWAY
is not the same as
HAS TAKEN AWAYQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 26 2009,14:23) Seeking,
Agreed. But Gene said that the Father took “full responsibility” as if the Son had no part in it. Speaking of Jesus Peter said,
Thinker,It does appear the Father did take the “full responsibilty”
for the solution to man's sin problem and provided Jesus as the perfect sacrifice.Granted, Jesus did the suffering and received the abuse after submitting himself to the Fathers will.
This is probably another of those moot points.
Blessings in your wallk with the Lord,
Seeking
Thinker….> GOD did take full responsibility of the Sin of the World and sacrificed His sin offering (JESUS) and who ever accepts this offering their sins are forgiven them. Suffering can be more then Just Physical thinker, How would you feel if you had to offer up your son for the sins of others……….Scripture says also it pleased the Father (IF) He (Jesus) would offer up His soul. (why?) because it showed complete obedience to the Fathers WILL. And because of that the Father has elevated Him to the position He now has. All this was done to demonstrate GOD the Fathers righteousness. IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………………..gene
Seeking said:
Quote It does appear the Father did take the “full responsibilty” Yet the Father's flesh was not torn and His blood spilt. And then there is the Isaiah 9:6 problem,
Quote And the government shall be upon His [Christ's] shoulders. When a matter is on YOUR shoulders it is YOUR responsibility. Did the Father die for you?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 27 2009,08:30) Seeking said: Quote It does appear the Father did take the “full responsibilty” Yet the Father's flesh was not torn and His blood spilt. And then there is the Isaiah 9:6 problem,
Quote And the government shall be upon His [Christ's] shoulders. When a matter is on YOUR shoulders it is YOUR responsibility. Did the Father die for you?
thinker
As I said, “moot point.” Jesus took no action aside from the direction of his God and Father. Jesus' task was to fulfill the
resposibilty the Father took upon Himself by being obedient to the duties assigned to him.Thinker,
It does appear the Father did take the “full responsibilty”
for the solution to man's sin problem and provided Jesus as the perfect sacrifice.Granted, Jesus did the suffering and received the abuse after submitting himself to the Fathers will.
This is probably another of those moot points.
Blessings in your wallk with the Lord,
Seeking
Blessings,
Seeking
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 27 2009,08:30) Quote And the government shall be upon His [Christ's] shoulders. When a matter is on YOUR shoulders it is YOUR responsibility. Did the Father die for you?
Thinker,You speak here of a government that woud be and is “post”
crucifixion and resurrection. We have been addressing events
prior to and leading up to the crucifixion and resurrection.Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
Blessings,
Seeking
Seeking said:
Quote Jesus took no action aside from the direction of his God and Father. Jesus' task was to fulfill the
resposibilty the Father took upon Himself by being obedient to the duties assigned to him….Granted, Jesus did the suffering and received the abuse after submitting himself to the Fathers will.Greetings Seeking,
Do you grant also that had Jesus decided NOT to do His Father's will that the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels to deliver Him? This is quite a conundrum for those who are saying that the Father took the full responsibility.
your friend,
thinkerQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 27 2009,13:31) Seeking said: Quote Jesus took no action aside from the direction of his God and Father. Jesus' task was to fulfill the
resposibilty the Father took upon Himself by being obedient to the duties assigned to him….Granted, Jesus did the suffering and received the abuse after submitting himself to the Fathers will.Greetings Seeking,
Do you grant also that had Jesus decided NOT to do His Father's will that the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels to deliver Him? This is quite a conundrum for those who are saying that the Father took the full responsibility.
your friend,
thinker
Thinker,You prove nothing here regarding “full responsibility” not falling with the Father. In fact you confirm that the Father alone had the resposibilty. I can grant nothing regarding what the Father would have done had the request been made. NO BIBLE PASSAGE ENLIGHTENS ME ON THE SUBJECT!
I know what the conviction of Jesus was regarding the matter.This passgae is a conundrum for you. Jesus could only make the request for the angels to be sent. It would have been the fathers FULL RESPONSIBILTY to grant or not grant the request. So, WHO HAD THE 'FULL RESPONSIBILTY”?
As an aside, if Jesus is God, why did he have to request the angels rather than simply issuing them a command? The text indicates Father God command over the angels.
Blessings,
Seeking
Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 27 2009,13:52) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 26 2009,14:23) Seeking,
Agreed. But Gene said that the Father took “full responsibility” as if the Son had no part in it. Speaking of Jesus Peter said,
Thinker,It does appear the Father did take the “full responsibilty”
for the solution to man's sin problem and provided Jesus as the perfect sacrifice.Granted, Jesus did the suffering and received the abuse after submitting himself to the Fathers will.
This is probably another of those moot points.
Blessings in your wallk with the Lord,
Seeking
Hi SeekingThen what do you do with this scripture?
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:17, 18
WJ
Quote Hi Seeking Then what do you do with this scripture?
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:17, 18
WJ
Hi Keith,
In the verse you quoted it says that it was the Father that issued the commandment for the Son to lay down His life and to have the power to take it again. The Father gave the permission. IMO
Blessings,
KathiQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2009,15:14) Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 27 2009,13:52) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 26 2009,14:23) Seeking,
Agreed. But Gene said that the Father took “full responsibility” as if the Son had no part in it. Speaking of Jesus Peter said,
Thinker,It does appear the Father did take the “full responsibilty”
for the solution to man's sin problem and provided Jesus as the perfect sacrifice.Granted, Jesus did the suffering and received the abuse after submitting himself to the Fathers will.
This is probably another of those moot points.
Blessings in your wallk with the Lord,
Seeking
Hi SeekingThen what do you do with this scripture?
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:17, 18
WJ
WJ,What do I do with it regarding what? The Father took full responsibilty to provide our redemption in Christ by the sacrifice of Christ.
Once Christ knew the Fathers plan for his life, he made the statement that no one (man, government, ruling power, etc)
could take his life from him.Note carefully the text you cite says, “This commandment have I received of my Father.” The father took resposibilty,issued the command, and the son obeyed.
What's the problem?
Blessings,
Seeking
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 14 2009,10:56) To my non-trinitarian friends here, Proverbs 16:4 says this:
Quote YHWH has made all things for Himself Colossians 1:17 says:
Quote All things were created by Him and for Him Please reconcile these statements with your non-trinitarian views. The verse in Proverbs says that all things were created for YHWH. But the verse in Colossians says that all things were created for Christ.
Creation exists for who____? Fill in the blank!
thinker
Hi TT,
You cannot discover truth by tacking a few verses together.If you have something from scripture that teaches God is a trinity in either the NT or OT please show us.
Otherwise please desist from suggesting we too offend the Father.
Proverbs 16:4(NIV)
Quote The LORD works out everything for his own ends—
even the wicked for a day of disaster.and
Proverbs 16:4(NKJV)
Quote The LORD has made all for Himself,
Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.and
Proverbs 16:4(ASV)
Quote Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Take your pick on which translation is correct but only one at most can be the inspired word of God.
Hi KW,
God did not give us translations.
Men did.We need the Spirit to guide us back to the true meaning.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2009,01:19) Hi KW,
God did not give us translations.
Men did.We need the Spirit to guide us back to the true meaning.
I agree!Seeking said to WJ:
Quote Note carefully the text you cite says, “This commandment have I received of my Father.” The father took resposibilty,issued the command, and the son obeyed. Seeking's hypothesis: “The father took resposibilty,issued the command, and the son obeyed.”
Real life experience: The Father issued the command, the Son took the responsibility and obeyed.
It's so simple! But Seeking is blinded by his paradigm.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 30 2009,07:18) Seeking said to WJ: Quote Note carefully the text you cite says, “This commandment have I received of my Father.” The father took resposibilty,issued the command, and the son obeyed. Seeking's hypothesis: “The father took resposibilty,issued the command, and the son obeyed.”
Real life experience: The Father issued the command, the Son took the responsibility and obeyed.
It's so simple! But Seeking is blinded by his paradigm.
thinker
Two sides to every coin. But by now we are all to realize only “Thinker” knows which is the right side. He alone will announce when the game is over, declare CHECKMATE
and proudly declare “Thinker wins.”
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