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G,
Is this the evidence you have found for the theory you espouse that Jesus put his will to death?This weak supposition?
Why not just tell us what scripture says as your own ideas are of little flavour in the mouth.
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 18 2009,03:23) WJ……..That is a good question, because it does clarify a lot, Notice How Jesus is portrayed before the throne . As a (SLAIN) LAMB that is a Key to understanding how He exists in his present state, why is He portrayed as SLAIN, is it not because He died to (HIS) WILL, and therefore only the WILL of The GOD or POWERS operates (through) Him Now, after putting His (WILL) to death. Notice also the seven Horns (symbols of Powers) and along with them seven Eyes (intellects) These Powers, compose and operate through the seven Spirits (intellects) of the One GOD. The question Here is are these Jesus' own Powers and Intellects, NO, they are not, they are given Him from the FATHER<Jesus is (NOT) another GOD, He is a recipient of the Spirits of the ONE True GOD. We also are recipients of GOD'S, SPIRIT of TRUTH, one of the SPIRITS of GOD. We recieve GOD'S Spirit through being anointed with them, even as Jesus Did, remember Jesus is called the (CHRIST) or ANOINTED. That is why Jesus said the FATHER (IN) me HE doth the Works , You see it was GOD (IN) Christ reconciling the WORLD to HIMSELF, you see it is GOD who will be in (ALL) and work Through (ALL) and there by effecting HIS (ONE WILL) in all things , “thy kingdom come, thy (WILL) be done”. that the way i see it brother.
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………….gene
GBThe scripture says “the Lambs eyes are the seven Spirits of God”, not the seven Spirits that God gave him.
Scriptures also says “The Lord is that Spirit”.
WJ
WJ………the Horns represent (POWERS) The EYES represent Spirit (intellects) all are From the LORD GOD< Jesus is ANOINTED with these, for He has the full measure of the Spirit for The Father gives Him the Spirit without measure., the full measure are all seven of the spirits of GOD or Powers. If Jesus already had them from eternity, then why would He have to be ANOINTED WITH THEM THEN. They, (the seven Spirits) are (OF) or (FROM) GOD the FATHER and the LORD is the controller of the POWERS. The LORD used these Powers (GOD)to created all things that exist. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………..gene
NIck…….you said is evidence I found that Jesus put His will to death, is a weak supposition. How could you read scripture and not Know that. If we are to believe that (ONLY) ONE WILL is to be done in the future them we must also believe no other will is going to be done. Jesus did not want to Die But said never the less not (MY) WILL but they WILL Be done. SO tells us What Happened to Jesus' will. A will is the self desires we have in our lives, and Jesus said we must take up our Cross and follow Him, what are we crucifying then is it not our WILLS which dictate our lives, For whosoever will save his life will loose it and whosoever will lose His life for the kingdom of GOD will save it.
Jesus emptied out His SOUL UNTO DEATH. That included His Will Nick. As Scripture says. ONLY ONE WILL Nick and that is GODS will be done, all others must go. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene said:
Quote Jesus emptied out His SOUL UNTO DEATH. That included His Will Nick. As Scripture says. ONLY ONE WILL Nick and that is GODS will be done, all others must go. You are only partially right Gene. If Jesus had asserted His will the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels. So it was only the Father's will from Jesus' standpoint. But it was Jesus' will from the Father's standpoint. Jesus yielded to the Father's will. But had He not yielded the Father would have yielded to Jesus' will.
Chew on this one for a while.
thinker
G,
You cannot accept what is written without adding your ideas.
Why do you hold your intellect so high?Nick………….. If my ideas are wrong then please show where they are rather then changing subjects, you should try to stay on subject matter , rather then diverting to personal attacks. If you can't properly answer what is posted then better off not to say anything, brother.
love and peace to you and yours……………………………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 21 2009,11:09) Gene said: Quote Jesus emptied out His SOUL UNTO DEATH. That included His Will Nick. As Scripture says. ONLY ONE WILL Nick and that is GODS will be done, all others must go. You are only partially right Gene. If Jesus had asserted His will the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels. So it was only the Father's will from Jesus' standpoint. But it was Jesus' will from the Father's standpoint. Jesus yielded to the Father's will. But had He not yielded the Father would have yielded to Jesus' will.
Chew on this one for a while.
thinker
Thinker ……..yes Jesus had a Will, but you see thats was what the struggle was all about and if Jesus' would not have put His will to death then there would not Have been the forgiveness of our sins, and (BECAUSE) Jesus poured his Will out unto death therefore (GOD), His GOD and OUR GOD , has exulted Him to the Position He (NOW) enjoys. This would not have happened if he did not put his will to death. Only one WILL, will be done and that the FATHERS (ONLY). And if that is to happen all others WILLS must cease and when that happens then GOD will be all in all and through all. Scripture Jesus went through what He did for the Joy held out to Him.Heb 12:2…> looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith who (FOR) the Joy set before Him endured the cross despising the shame is set down at the right hand of the throne of GOD.
Jesus said he did not come to do his will , but the will of him who sent Him. And if He were God then He would have done His own Will , “For God does all things after the council of His (OWN) WILL”. Interesting only (ONE) WILL of GOD and it wasn't Jesus' WILL. May be we should chew on this a little thinker.
peace and love to you and yours brother……………………….gene
Nick………you are under obligation to show me where me Ideas are not scriptural , not just falsely accuse me , show me Brother where i am wrong not accuse me. Proof is what needed not personal accusations. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 18 2009,11:24) Quote (Gene @ Mar. 18 2009,03:23) WJ……..That is a good question, because it does clarify a lot, Notice How Jesus is portrayed before the throne . As a (SLAIN) LAMB that is a Key to understanding how He exists in his present state, why is He portrayed as SLAIN, is it not because He died to (HIS) WILL, and therefore only the WILL of The GOD or POWERS operates (through) Him Now, after putting His (WILL) to death. Notice also the seven Horns (symbols of Powers) and along with them seven Eyes (intellects) These Powers, compose and operate through the seven Spirits (intellects) of the One GOD. The question Here is are these Jesus' own Powers and Intellects, NO, they are not, they are given Him from the FATHER<Jesus is (NOT) another GOD, He is a recipient of the Spirits of the ONE True GOD. We also are recipients of GOD'S, SPIRIT of TRUTH, one of the SPIRITS of GOD. We recieve GOD'S Spirit through being anointed with them, even as Jesus Did, remember Jesus is called the (CHRIST) or ANOINTED. That is why Jesus said the FATHER (IN) me HE doth the Works , You see it was GOD (IN) Christ reconciling the WORLD to HIMSELF, you see it is GOD who will be in (ALL) and work Through (ALL) and there by effecting HIS (ONE WILL) in all things , “thy kingdom come, thy (WILL) be done”. that the way i see it brother.
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………….gene
GBThe scripture says “the Lambs eyes are the seven Spirits of God”, not the seven Spirits that God gave him.
Scriptures also says “The Lord is that Spirit”.
WJ
WJ……….remember it's a (SLAIN LAMB) that indicates Jesus is not using His own Will , which He put to death, He therefore (NOW) is portrayed as a SLAIN LAMB. This is very important to understand because it showed whose WILL is Being DONE, its the Will of GOD expressed by the seven Horns (powers) and Seven Eyes that make up the complete Spirits of GOD. These Spirits have always existed with the FATHER and can be in anyone He choses to give them to, but there Wills must cease rule, that why is says we who have died with Christ, Means we have also put our wills to death like he did, and therefore God's Will operates in us also. That GOD may be all in all and through all. (ONE WILL) ONLY. “Thy Kingdom come (THY) WILL be DONE”, when that happens then GOD”S Kingdom will be in all and through all. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Nick………You have no idea how i stand in understanding scripture. again put your proof where you mouth is and Prove what i say as wrong instead of just mouthing off about where i stand , as if you somehow would know. What do you think Jesus meant when He said the Father (IN) me He doth the works, tell how the Father was in Him if not by HIS SPIRIT, seeing you think you know so much.
peace and love……………………………..gene
G,
We cannot prove your ideas by scripture because they originate from you AND NOT SCRIPTURE.
Get over yourself.Gene said:
Quote Thinker ……..yes Jesus had a Will, but you see thats was what the struggle was all about and if Jesus' would not have put His will to death then there would not Have been the forgiveness of our sins, and (BECAUSE) Jesus poured his Will out unto death therefore (GOD), His GOD and OUR GOD , has exulted Him to the Position He (NOW) enjoys. This would not have happened if he did not put his will to death. Only one WILL, will be done and that the FATHERS (ONLY). And if that is to happen all others WILLS must cease and when that happens then GOD will be all in all and through all. Scripture Jesus went through what He did for the Joy held out to Him. Gene,
Amen bro! Had Jesus not put His own will to death there would be no forgiveness of sins for us. However, for Jesus this involved His putting to death His legitimate rights. But for us the putting to death of our wills involves our denying our selfish desires.thinker
Thinker………..I am not saying Jesus does not have a will though, He puts it to death when it is contrary to GOD'S Will is all, If His will is in accordance to GOD'S I am sure he can exercise it fully. As we also can ours also. If we refuse to put our (contrary) wills to death then we are resisting the WILL of GOD. But if we do not go contrary to GOD'S WILL then why should it be put to death, we are living in accordance to his will then. Right? The Father can give us the right kind of Wills we need brother, And does this by changing our hearts to conform to His heart. “For he works in us both to WILL and DO of his Good pleasure.
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………gene
Gene wrote:
Quote I am not saying Jesus does not have a will though, He puts it to death when it is contrary to GOD'S Will is all…. Gene,
But the Father would have given Jesus anything He insisted upon even if it was contrary. Jesus knew that it was His Father's will for Him to die. But He knew also that if He would have insisted in not dying that the Father would have heard Him and sent twelve legions of angels. This is the conundrum for non-trinitarians. Jesus denied His own will and went to the cross. But if He would have said “No! I ain't going to lay down my life for these sinners”, the Father would have sent Him an army from heaven.Chew on this for a while. Men cannot fully comprehend all that Jesus did for them until they FIRST acknowledge that He denied Himself His legitimate rights.
thinker
thinker ………Yes the Father would have delivered Jesus from that fate, but then Jesus would not have the glory that was sat before him, So He chose to submit His Will to live to the FATHERS WILL for him to die, AS the Slain Lamb Sacrifice of the FATHER, for the Sins of the world.
Now we need to ask ourselves why would GOD the FATHER do that, Is it not that the Father takes full responsibility for all the sin of the earth , because He created everything and allowed it all to happen in the first place. And as the responsible Party He for justice sake had to pay the price required of the responsible party. So He offered His Son as that ultimate price in order to redeem the whole world. We are brought with a price tag, and that is why to ignore this, our salvation through Jesus is a great sin. IMO
Just as the Kinsmen Redeemer in the Old Testament time was allowed to redeem His Kin so also our FATHER in HEAVEN is allowed to Redeem us because He is the Father of all creation, therefore He can redeem all. But He does it according to His law of redemption. WE have All been brought with a price. IMO.
peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………………gene
Gene said:
Quote Now we need to ask ourselves why would GOD the FATHER do that, Is it not that the Father takes full responsibility for all the sin of the earth , Gene,
John the baptist disagrees with you. He said that Jesus took awaythe sins of the world,Quote Behold, the lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29) Jesus took the full responsibility for our sins. It was Jesus who was beaten and spit upon and tortured and mutilated and put to death.
thinker
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