Proverbs 16:4 with Colossians 1:17

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
In the same way that we are as Jesus prayed in Jn17.
Are you claiming to be part of God too by another kind of unity?

[SEEKING]

WorshippingJesus,April wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

It is your bias that sees those scriptures as such. For instance when you see the word God you automatically assume it means the Father. Yet we know scriptures also refer to Jesus as God. But you choose with your bias to ignore them.

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1) One God – the Father
2) One mediator – Jesus

If you cannot see distinction, seperation, independence here –
as I said – further discussion is futile.  ALL of yours and others
passages have been explained, by myself and others.  

WJ states –

Quote

Yet your bias kicks in and says “see the Father is greater than Jesus”, totally ignoring that Jesus had just said that “no man can pluck them out of his hand”.

Joh 10:29  (ESV) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 10:29 (KJV)  
   My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:29 (NIV)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

My “bias” does not say, “the father is greater than Jesus.”
Jesus said, “my father…is greater than all”.
I do not ignore that “no man can pluck them out of MY FATHER”S HAND that is what the text reads.  Are you trying to assert that Jesus said out of his, Jesus' hand? If you are, it is that twisting of the text that continually will void accurate interpretation. BIAS.

Seeking

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ…………Jesus in prayer said (THOU) that excludes him, ART THE (ONLY) that also excludes him, TRUE GOD. Where in this is Jesus including Himself?

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2009,18:20)

So you don't believe Jesus is one with the Father?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2009,18:21)

Hi WJ, In the same way that we are as Jesus prayed in Jn17. Are you claiming to be part of God too by another kind of unity?

NH

So you make yourself equal to Jesus?

Are you a “Monogenes” Son?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Are you not one with the SON?

Is that how yoiu read Jn17?
Take the trinity specs off and read it again.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,07:10)

Hi WJ, Are you not one with the SON? Is that how yoiu read Jn17? Take the trinity specs off and read it again.

NH

You didn't answer the questions.

Take the Arian glasses off.

I read it as the Father and Son is one in us and we are one in them.

Of course it takes revelation from God to see the difference!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Indeed the Father and the Son are one and we are one with them.
But that does not make us God any more than it makes the Son his own God.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,07:27)

Hi WJ, Indeed the Father and the Son are one and we are one with them. But that does not make us God any more than it makes the Son his own God.

NH

Never said that makes us God. But your assumptions is that we are equal to Jesus, when it is evident that a mere man does not dwell in millions of believers speaking to them and fellowshipping with them all at once.

We are “One Temple”, they are One God that fills that one temple!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So back to Jn 10 where Jesus said he was one with the Father is that comparable with what he said in Jn17 where he also included those in him?

Do you now realise that it makes no statement in Jn 10 that Jesus is part of God any more than we are?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2009,22:01)

It is your bias that sees those scriptures as such. For instance when you see the word God you automatically assume it means the Father. Yet we know scriptures also refer to Jesus as God. But you choose with your bias to ignore them.

Quote (SEEKING @ April 14 2009,01:10)

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1) One God – the Father 2) One mediator – Jesus

Again, It is your bias who sees Jesus who is the “Image of the invisible God” as less than God when Jesus own words state…

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and “YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, PHILIP? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; AND HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER”? John 14:9

And then we read…

No one has ever seen God, but “GOD THE ONE AND ONLY”, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18

The mediator is the Word/God that came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man. But you have closed your eyes to this truth.

You seek to reduce the nature of Jesus to that of being a mere man, therfore making the image of God into the image of a man.

Quote (SEEKING @ April 14 2009,01:10)

If you cannot see distinction, seperation, independence here – as I said – further discussion is futile.  ALL of yours and others passages have been explained, by myself and others.

It is futile to continue a discussion with someone who doesn’t understand the definition of words.

I never claimed Jesus was not “distinct” or “separate” as a person from the Father.

This discussion is about the Father or Jesus acting independently of each other.

Distinction:   4: the quality or state of being distinguishable.

For instance a natural Father and a Son, yet the Father and the Son are equally human.
Jesus is the “Monogenes” only unique Son having the exact nature as the Father as God.

Distinction is a definition that is found in scriptures, though you may not like it, and in fact you seek to diminish the nature of who Jesus is. A Son is not distinct from the Father in nature. Jesus is the “Only Unique” Son. You should go and learn what that means.

Seperation: to make a distinction between

Independent: not dependent: as not requiring or relying on something else

Are you prepared to show how the Father didn’t rely on Jesus to carry out his work and his will? Are you prepared to show us how Jesus acted on his own accord? Did the Father or Jesus save us alone? This must be frustrating for you not to be able to find one thing that the Father has done that Jesus has not done!

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2009,18:20)

Yet your bias kicks in and says “see the Father is greater than Jesus”, totally ignoring that Jesus had just said that “no man can pluck them out of his hand”.

Quote (SEEKING @ April 14 2009,01:10)

Joh 10:29  (ESV) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. John 10:29 (KJV)      My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:29 (NIV) 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Yet you can’t see the equality of Jesus words here can you?

AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, “NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND”. John 10:28

Quote (SEEKING @ April 14 2009,01:10)

My “bias” does not say, “the father is greater than Jesus.” Jesus said, “my father…is greater than all”.

Of course the Father is greater than Jesus. I never said he wasn’t, but your assumptions is that “my father is greater than all” is touching the nature of who Jesus is when in fact the context shows that his nature is the same.

Quote (SEEKING @ April 14 2009,01:10)

I do not ignore that “no man can pluck them out of MY FATHER”S HAND that is what the text reads.

But, as usual you think that one scripture negates others. Yet the scripture you quote is sandwiched between these scriptures…

”And i give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. ” John 10:28

”I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE”.John 10:30

Seriously, do you really believe your own words when you say…

Quote (SEEKING @ April 13 2009,15:41)

They are not one. God is God and does it WITHOUT Jesus. Jesus is mediator and mediates WITHOUT God. INDEPENDANTLY! Believe the word or believe your bias.

Does Jesus do anything without the Father?

Quote (SEEKING @ April 13 2009,15:41)

I do not ignore that “no man can pluck them out of MY FATHER”S HAND that is what the text reads.  Are you trying to assert that Jesus said out of his, Jesus' hand? If you are, it is that twisting of the text that continually will void accurate interpretation. BIAS. Seeking

”And i give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. ” John 10:28

Do you believe his words or does this scripture like many others to you become invalid because of your cherry picking scripture to suit your manmade Arianistic doctrine and bias.

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You still confuse God with His son.
Is this deliberate or are you really personally confused?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,08:33)

Hi WJ, So back to Jn 10 where Jesus said he was one with the Father is that comparable with what he said in Jn17 where he also included those in him? Do you now realise that it makes no statement in Jn 10 that Jesus is part of God any more than we are?

NH

As soon as you can show me in scripture where we are the “Good Shepard” and hold the sheep in our hands so that no man can pluck them out of our hands then I will agree and say that my “oneness” with the Father is the same as Jesus when he said “I and my Father are one”.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Why divert from answering the question about Jn10 and Jn17?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,10:26)

Hi WJ, Why divert from answering the question about Jn10 and Jn17?

Hi NH

Why divert from answering these questions?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2009,07:05)

So you make yourself equal to Jesus? Are you a “Monogenes” Son?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You can be a branch but never the vine.
You can be part of the body but not the head.
You can shepherd the sheep but not be the chief Shepherd.

1 Peter 5:2
shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;

1 Peter 5:4
And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

[SEEKING]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2009,14:38)

Seperation: to make a distinction between Independent: not dependent: as not requiring or relying on something else Are you prepared to show how the Father didn’t rely on Jesus to carry out his work and his will?

1 Peter 1:19-20 (KJV)      But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

God foreordained Jesus, no help from Jesus.

Act 2:23  this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (ESV)

God had the foreknowledge of the plan and worked out the plan, no help from Jesus.

Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

God made known HIS mystery and purpose, he set it forth –
no help from Jesus.

Romans 13:1 (KJV)  
 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The powers are ordained by God, no help from Jesus

1 Cor. 2:7 (KJV)  
 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The wisdom spoken was ordained by God, no help from Jesus

1 Peter 1:19-20 (KJV)      But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In each and all of these incidences, the Father did these things “without relying on Jesus.  He foreordained Jesus “independently”  also making a “seperation” or distinction between Himself and Jesus.  Jesus is “monogenes”
because of the “independent” action of the father, clearly making a “seperation” or distiction between who is the father and who is the son.  The father ordained the mystery “independent”  of Jesus. The Father ordained the powers “independant” of Jesus, etal.

All the above mentioned actions in the scriptures are attributed to God “independant” of Jesus. The only way around that is to grant your contention that Jesus is God and was there performing the actions.

And there is the pivotal point of contention.  

You mention my cherry picking, yet I notice you are equally skilled at it.  You mention my denials, yet I notice you are equally skilled at it.  I have read numerous challenges by others left totally unanswered and unaddressed.  For a while,I will just be reading and see of you can catch up.

Seeking

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2009,10:30)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,10:26) Hi WJ, Why divert from answering the question about Jn10 and Jn17? Hi NH Why divert from answering these questions? Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2009,07:05) So you make yourself equal to Jesus? Are you a “Monogenes” Son? WJ

Hi WJ,
If you are not yet one with the Son then seek first the kingdom.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You say
“For instance a natural Father and a Son, yet the Father and the Son are equally human.
Jesus is the “Monogenes” only unique Son having the exact nature as the Father as God.”

You may well worship men but our God is immortal.

Was Jesus exactly like God before he was anointed by the transforming empowering Spirit of God?

Acts 10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[NickHassan]

WJ,
Ps 2
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Before God did this there was no Son.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2009,22:36)

WJ, Ps 2 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Before God did this there was no Son.

Nick,
When do you think that God “did” that?
LU

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