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Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,00:03) Quote The Son of Man indeed goes as it is written of Him (Matt. 26:24) 1.The Father delivered Jesus into the hands of sinners
2. Sinners put Him up on a cross and killed Him
3. Jesus willingly went (not dragged)Looks like shared responsibility to me.
Joh 11:43-44 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.” The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”1) Jesus cried out
2) Lazurus came outLooks like shared responsibilty to me.
Nonsense! Not even good high school logic.
Seeking
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,04:12) Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,00:03) Quote The Son of Man indeed goes as it is written of Him (Matt. 26:24) 1.The Father delivered Jesus into the hands of sinners
2. Sinners put Him up on a cross and killed Him
3. Jesus willingly went (not dragged)Looks like shared responsibility to me.
Joh 11:43-44 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.” The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”1) Jesus cried out
2) Lazurus came outLooks like shared responsibilty to me.
Nonsense! Not even good high school logic.
Seeking
Huh?You've lost me.
thinker
Hi SEEKING
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,03:57)
Jesus does not seek the glory of man, but rather, seeks to glorify the Father. Human wisdom may seek to glorify Jesus as equal to or above the Father, however, that is not the will of Jesus or the plan of God. Jesus, and we, receive our glory from God.Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Honour, Greek, “timao”, which means;
1) to estimate, fix the value
a) for the value of something belonging to one's self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerateRevere; to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor
Venerate;
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotionSynonyms: reverence, worship and adore.
This means the same Value, devotion, and reverence is to be directed toward Yeshua as to the Father.
To the degree you homour Yeshua, it’s to that degree you honour the Father.
To me the word honour is a more powerful word than worship because it includes worship.
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, “Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:13
Can you see any difference in the honour, glory and worship given to Jesus here than the Father?
Yes it is to the Glory of the Father that men glorify, honour and worship Jesus “Even as” the Father!
Your mission to reduce Jesus and the honour and glory that Jesus is worthy of is rather troubling!
WJ
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,03:57) Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,00:14) Paul said that the Father has elevated Christ and given Him a name that is above every name. Paul said that at the name of Jesus “every knee should bow…to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2). Non-trinitarians claim that they glorify the Father. But if the Father says “Bow the knee to Jesus” and you disobey, then how can you be glorifying the Father? The Father must be glorified on HIS TERMS. His terms are: “Bow to my Son.”
thinker
Non-trinitarians bow the knee to Jesus as sacrifice, savior, and Lord to give glory to the Father!Paul said that at the name of Jesus “every knee should bow…to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2).
It would be well if trinitarians did the same!!
Mar 2:12 And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Luk 5:26 And amazement seized them all, and they glorified God and were filled with awe, saying, “We have seen extraordinary things today.”
Luk 7:16 Fear seized them all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and “God has visited his people!”
Luk 13:13 And he laid his hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and she glorified God.
Jesus does not seek the glory of man, but rather, seeks to glorify the Father. Human wisdom may seek to glorify Jesus as equal to or above the Father, however, that is not the will of Jesus or the plan of God. Jesus, and we, receive our glory from God.
Joh 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify your name.”Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
Joh 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
Joh 8:50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.
Joh 7:18 The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.'
Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Luk 2:14 “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”
Seeking
Seeking……….Amen brother, you have said it right. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 09 2009,05:13) Hi SEEKING Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,03:57)
Jesus does not seek the glory of man, but rather, seeks to glorify the Father. Human wisdom may seek to glorify Jesus as equal to or above the Father, however, that is not the will of Jesus or the plan of God. Jesus, and we, receive our glory from God.Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Honour, Greek, “timao”, which means;
1) to estimate, fix the value
a) for the value of something belonging to one's self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerateRevere; to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor
Venerate;
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotionSynonyms: reverence, worship and adore.
This means the same Value, devotion, and reverence is to be directed toward Yeshua as to the Father.
To the degree you homour Yeshua, it’s to that degree you honour the Father.
To me the word honour is a more powerful word than worship because it includes worship.
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, “Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:13
Can you see any difference in the honour, glory and worship given to Jesus here than the Father?
Yes it is to the Glory of the Father that men glorify, honour and worship Jesus “Even as” the Father!
Your mission to reduce Jesus and the honour and glory that Jesus is worthy of is rather troubling!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Would you reduce the glory of God to be as a man?
God can elevate anyone and He has done so with His Son.
The servants of God should be honoured as they represented God.Exodus 7:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, ” See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.Mark 12:6
“He had one more to send, a beloved son; he sent him last of all to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'Rom1
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 08 2009,10:13) Your mission to reduce Jesus and the honour and glory that Jesus is worthy of is rather troubling! WJ
My mission is to give Jesus his rightful place. He DOES NOT
covet glory from men, but would rather give glory to the father. You may be troubled by that, but not all are.Gene said
Quote
Non-trinitarians bow the knee to Jesus as sacrifice, savior, and Lord to give glory to the Father!Paul said that at the name of Jesus “every knee should bow…to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2).
It would be well if trinitarians did the same!!
Mar 2:12 And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Luk 5:26 And amazement seized them all, and they glorified God and were filled with awe, saying, “We have seen extraordinary things today.”
Luk 7:16 Fear seized them all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and “God has visited his people!”
Luk 13:13 And he laid his hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and she glorified God.
Jesus does not seek the glory of man, but rather, seeks to glorify the Father. Human wisdom may seek to glorify Jesus as equal to or above the Father, however, that is not the will of Jesus or the plan of God. Jesus, and we, receive our glory from God.
Joh 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify your name.”Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
Joh 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
Joh 8:50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.
Joh 7:18 The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.'
Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Luk 2:14 “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”
Seeking
Seeking……….Amen brother, you have said it right. IMO
One thing I admire about Gene is that, virtually all if not all. his posts end in IMO. I state what is IMO. Some may be troubled by any opinion but their own. No degree in relgion and/or logic is needed to realize we are are discussing what has been debated for decades. I regret but take no responsibilty for the fact that an opinion other than yours troubles you.
Seeking
Quote One thing I admire about Gene is that, virtually all if not all. his posts end in IMO. I state what is IMO. Some may be troubled by any opinion but their own. No degree in relgion and/or logic is needed to realize we are are discussing what has been debated for decades. I regret but take no responsibilty for the fact that an opinion other than yours troubles you. Okay, in your opinion does the name “Jesus” truly and properly belong to Jesus seeing that Jesus had no responsibility in our salvation? Did the angel have one too many beers when He told Joseph to name the child “Jesus”?
The name “Jesus” cannot truly and properly be true of Christ if the Father took “full” responsibility in our salvation (IMO).
thinker
Hi TT,
Is this what you were aiming at with this pedantic trail?God chose to use the man Yahshua to bring salvation to men.
God has indeed visited his people in the vessel of His son.
Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,14:06) Did the angel have one too many beers when He told Joseph to name the child “Jesus”? The name “Jesus” cannot truly and properly be true of Christ if the Father took “full” responsibility in our salvation (IMO).
thinker
Jesus is everything name the Father has attributed to him.
He is prophet, priest, king, savior, the name above all names
etc.He had the obligation to take “full responsibilty” for everything the Father directed him to do, become and fulfill. He did so willingly because of his love for the Father and us.
God the Father took “full responsibilty” to initiate a plan of salvation, and define the sons role in that plan.
There is no overlapping of responsibilities. No, God the Father did not go to the cross. The Father was not literally spit upon, etc. Neither does the son take on the role of God IMO.
Rather, the son seeks to be obedient to the Father, bring glory to the Fathers name, and will give all things back to the Father so that the Father can be ALL IN ALL.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
Seeking
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,10:19) Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,14:06) Did the angel have one too many beers when He told Joseph to name the child “Jesus”? The name “Jesus” cannot truly and properly be true of Christ if the Father took “full” responsibility in our salvation (IMO).
thinker
Jesus is everything name the Father has attributed to him.
He is prophet, priest, king, savior, the name above all names
etc.He had the obligation to take “full responsibilty” for everything the Father directed him to do, become and fulfill. He did so willingly because of his love for the Father and us.
God the Father took “full responsibilty” to initiate a plan of salvation, and define the sons role in that plan.
There is no overlapping of responsibilities. No, God the Father did not go to the cross. The Father was not literally spit upon, etc. Neither does the son take on the role of God IMO.
Rather, the son seeks to be obedient to the Father, bring glory to the Fathers name, and will give all things back to the Father so that the Father can be ALL IN ALL.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
Seeking
Seeking,
Good post bro! We are making some progress. Sometimes it takes a lot of time and work to cut through all the crap.BUT…. Paul did not say that Christ would yield to the Father so that the Father could be “all in all.” He said that Christ would yield to the Father so that GOD could be “all in all.”
In other words, after the Son yields to the Father the redemptive distinction between Father and Son will be abolished. It will just be “God” without all the Jewish “Father” and “Son” stuff. But until then CHRIST is “all in all” (Colossians 3:11).
thinker
thethinker,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote BUT…. Paul did not say that Christ would yield to the Father so that the Father could be “all in all.” He said that Christ would yield to the Father so that GOD could be “all in all.” 1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
I do believe the Father son distinctions are continued according to the texts.
1cor.15:24
1) The end comes
2) The son delivers the kindom
3) The son delivers the kindom to “God the Father”1cor15:28
1) The son will be subjected to him who put all
things in subjection to the son (God the Father)
2) God (the Father IMO) will be all in allQuote But until then CHRIST is “all in all”[/b] (Colossians 3:11). IMO the context of this verse teaches that distictions are absorbed in Christ. The second “in all” refers to the Christ in all that absorbs those distinctions. That is staying true to the intent of the context IMO.
Col 3:10-15 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.
Regardless, the Father would still be the exception –
1Co 15:27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,”it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him
Seeking
Hi TT,
You say
“In other words, after the Son yields to the Father the redemptive distinction between Father and Son will be abolished.”There will be no one else to redeem
Hi SEEKING
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 08 2009,10:13) Your mission to reduce Jesus and the honour and glory that Jesus is worthy of is rather troubling! WJ
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,07:50)
My mission is to give Jesus his rightful place.
Really? If so then (IMO) you would be calling Jesus your Lord and your God.The scriptures do call him Lord and God.
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,07:50)
He DOES NOT
covet glory from men, but would rather give glory to the father.
I never said Jesus “covets” glory from men did I? I think you are getting the words mixed up. Glory and honor are two different words though they are related.
Jesus doesn’t need anything from man. But your statement seems to imply that because Jesus didn’t “covet” glory from men then that means that you should give him less honor and more to the Father.But Jesus words were…
Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Now if you have ears to hear then you will hear Jesus “call” for honor to himself, “Even as” to the Father, and then he goes further and says that if you do not honor him in this way then you do not honor the Father.
The Greek word for “even as” is ‘kathōs’ which means…
1) according as
a) just as, even as
b) in proportion as, in the degree thatNow you might ask yourself what sort of man could even make a statement like this? Especially if, as you imply, all he is seeking is to have men to glorify, the Father?
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,07:50)
You may be troubled by that, but not all are.
I am not troubled by the fact that Jesus gives the Father Honor and Glory, but the Father also gives Jesus honor and Glory.But you seem to leave out the fact that Jesus said the same honor given to the Father should be given to Jesus. Now since we know that Jesus words are also the Fathers, then we can also say the Father is saying that “you should honor my Son as (according as, just as, even as, in proportion as, in the degree) you honor me. Do you give Jesus this kind of honor?
Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,07:50)
Gene said…Non-trinitarians bow the knee to Jesus as sacrifice, savior, and Lord to give glory to the Father!
Paul said that at the name of Jesus “every knee should bow…to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2).
It would be well if trinitarians did the same!!
But we do give the glory to the Father. But Trinitarians also give the same honor and Glory to Jesus, for this is the Fathers command. He has committed all things to Jesus. You cannot glorify the Father apart from the Son. You cannot even come to the Father apart from the Son. It’s “because” every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord that brings Glory to God. Can’t you guys see that? What brings glory to the Father is honoring the Son even as you honor the Father.Quote (SEEKING @ April 09 2009,07:50)
One thing I admire about Gene is that, virtually all if not all. his posts end in IMO. I state what is IMO. Some may be troubled by any opinion but their own. No degree in relgion and/or logic is needed to realize we are are discussing what has been debated for decades. I regret but take no responsibilty for the fact that an opinion other than yours troubles you.Seeking
You are correct you are responsible for your own actions and opinions and not responsible for mine nor I yours. But I would hope that as a believer you would be troubled when you believe someone is in error. That would be like Christ, wouldn't it? OOPS Excuse me, I mean be like God!Blessings WJ
Non-trinitarians bow the knee to Jesus as sacrifice, savior, and Lord to give glory to the Father!
Paul said that at the name of Jesus “every knee should bow…to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2).
Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,14:06)
Did the angel have one too many beers when He told Joseph to name the child “Jesus”?The name “Jesus” cannot truly and properly be true of Christ if the Father took “full” responsibility in our salvation (IMO).
Seekings response –
Quote thinker Jesus is everything name the Father has attributed to him.
He is prophet, priest, king, savior, the name above all names
etc.He had the obligation to take “full responsibility” for everything the Father directed him to do, become and fulfill. He did so willingly because of his love for the Father and us.
God the Father took “full responsibility” to initiate a plan of salvation, and define the sons role in that plan.
There is no overlapping of responsibilities. No, God the Father did not go to the cross. The Father was not literally spit upon, etc. Neither does the son take on the role of God IMO.
Rather, the son seeks to be obedient to the Father, bring glory to the Fathers name, and will give all things back to the Father so that the Father can be ALL IN ALL.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
Seeking
WJ,
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Seeking
Hello to all,
Please bear with the length of this post. I will underline some of the text for emphasis and consideration. I am striving to understand one verse (Jn.5:23) in light of the whole. Jesus, knowing the heart of the Jews, addresses their objection that Jesus is, “making himself equal with God.” Allow me to begin.
Joh 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Joh 5:19 So Jesus said to them,“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
Joh 5:22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
Joh 5:23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Joh 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself,so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment,
because he is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
Joh 5:29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Joh 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent meIn response to the thought of the Jews that Jesus was making himself equal to God, It is interesting to note that Jesus opens and closes his discourse with these disclaimers –
red “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. (v.19)
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Sandwiched between those statements is the rest of the discourse.
Throughout, Jesus continuously emphasizes his dependence on the father for ability and authority (v.19, 21, 26, 27, 30)God states, through Jesus, that He wants the words of the son, the activities of the son, the actions of the son, the son – honored as the Jews honored and respected God. This was the Father's desire for all his prophets. But, like Jesus, they also were not given their proper
place.When one honors Jesus for his love, obedience, sacrifice, desire to do the Father's will, for salvation and all he has done in God's plan of salvation, they honor God and the son even as they honor God.
As the father said, “this is my beloved son, here ye him.” I do not see God created an equal in these texts. I do not see Jesus claiming that honor. In fact, his response to the thought that he was making himself equal to God is couched in these statements from his own lips –
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Thank you for bearing with the length of this post and for considering
the thoughts.I share with you “my opinion” and offer blessings,
Seeking
Greetings LU: The word “mansions” in John translated literally is “places of abode”. There are not buildings in Heaven. Spirit moves and travels in thought waves. Anyway, Jesus was telling them, I go(die) that I may come(manifest) again with my Father in his Kingdom which is within each human being.We must read the Bible and spiritualy appraise it. Hear the Spirit. Thats why Jesus spoke in parables.They ask Jesus why parables Matt.13:10 and he said,,”it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but unto them(Religious Hierarchy) it is not given”. Then in v13, “I speak to them in parables because they seeing (thinking they see) see not, and hearing, they hear not, neither do they undertand”!HearSpirit.This is a picture of the way Jesus came to the Earth. “The Word of God, Jesus, shall decend from Heaven at the trump(voice) word of God and those not aware of Christ in them,(the dead,) shall hear his voice (accept the truth) and rise up alive in Christ and there be with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost forever in Spirit,Word,Truth,Mind,Thought,Heart. Jesus prepared us to recieve the Kindom within so that where he is, we are also. This is the beginning of being born again! Love and Peace in Truth, Tim
Quote (Tim Kraft @ April 09 2009,11:10) Greetings LU: The word “mansions” in John translated literally is “places of abode”. There are not buildings in Heaven. Spirit moves and travels in thought waves. Anyway, Jesus was telling them, I go(die) that I may come(manifest) again with my Father in his Kingdom which is within each human being.We must read the Bible and spiritualy appraise it. Hear the Spirit. Thats why Jesus spoke in parables.They ask Jesus why parables Matt.13:10 and he said,,”it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but unto them(Religious Hierarchy) it is not given”. Then in v13, “I speak to them in parables because they seeing (thinking they see) see not, and hearing, they hear not, neither do they undertand”!HearSpirit.This is a picture of the way Jesus came to the Earth. “The Word of God, Jesus, shall decend from Heaven at the trump(voice) word of God and those not aware of Christ in them,(the dead,) shall hear his voice (accept the truth) and rise up alive in Christ and there be with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost forever in Spirit,Word,Truth,Mind,Thought,Heart. Jesus prepared us to recieve the Kindom within so that where he is, we are also. This is the beginning of being born again! Love and Peace in Truth, Tim
Hi Tim,
Thanks, I didn't figure that they were buildings. So you don't think that the places of abode are in another realm somewhere? You think those places are within us…correct?
God's love,
KathiQuote (Tim Kraft @ April 10 2009,03:10) Greetings LU: The word “mansions” in John translated literally is “places of abode”. There are not buildings in Heaven. Spirit moves and travels in thought waves. Anyway, Jesus was telling them, I go(die) that I may come(manifest) again with my Father in his Kingdom which is within each human being.We must read the Bible and spiritualy appraise it. Hear the Spirit. Thats why Jesus spoke in parables.They ask Jesus why parables Matt.13:10 and he said,,”it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but unto them(Religious Hierarchy) it is not given”. Then in v13, “I speak to them in parables because they seeing (thinking they see) see not, and hearing, they hear not, neither do they undertand”!HearSpirit.This is a picture of the way Jesus came to the Earth. “The Word of God, Jesus, shall decend from Heaven at the trump(voice) word of God and those not aware of Christ in them,(the dead,) shall hear his voice (accept the truth) and rise up alive in Christ and there be with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost forever in Spirit,Word,Truth,Mind,Thought,Heart. Jesus prepared us to recieve the Kindom within so that where he is, we are also. This is the beginning of being born again! Love and Peace in Truth, Tim
Hi TK,
All is not allegory.
God's kingdom is not divided.It is in heaven and earth is becoming His Kingdom through His Son.
Mt 6
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Jesus has established a God's kingdom on earth and will return and rule here for 1000 yearswith his brothers for and with God.
Matthew 2:6
And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.1 Corinthians 15:25
For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with Him;If we deny Him, He also will deny us;Revelation 5:10
“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
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