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Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,16:14) Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,13:07) Hey at least he changed his name from the thinker (which didn't suit) to something more accurate. After all, he does jump around quite a bit trying to dodge difficulties.
I don't see it that way. Jack is an anomaly in this forum – he consistently and cogently answers questions. He answers the whole post and doesn't cherry pick. I haven't seen him run from anyone.
Hi Isaiah 1:18,He has ran away from me on numerous threads!
What about the Posts he doesn't answer at all (choosing to ignore)?
Ask him, he'll tell you: When ever I ask him to explain inconsistencies in what he presents,
he ignores those Posts, instead choosing to engage in endless arguments with those who knowingly disagree with him.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,14:40) Yea I can judge these things for the scriptures tell us to test the Spirits and your words and doctrine does not pass the the Spiritual or the Scriptural test! WJ
Hi WJ,Scriptures? You mean the same ones in which Paul says:
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Hmmm…..what Jesus did Paul preach?
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
WJ, It seems to me that you preach a different Jesus than Paul and the others and apparently recieve a different spirit than I do. You think you have the truth by spirit, but watch out! Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Best to check the fruits against the Scriptures.
Do these scriptures tell you that Jesus is co-equal God? Food for thought.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,14:52) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,16:14) Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,13:07) Hey at least he changed his name from the thinker (which didn't suit) to something more accurate. After all, he does jump around quite a bit trying to dodge difficulties.
I don't see it that way. Jack is an anomaly in this forum – he consistently and cogently answers questions. He answers the whole post and doesn't cherry pick. I haven't seen him run from anyone.
Hi Isaiah 1:18,He has ran away from me on numerous threads!
What about the Posts he doesn't answer at all (choosing to ignore)?
Ask him, he'll tell you: When ever I ask him to explain inconsistencies in what he presents,
he ignores those Posts, instead choosing to engage in endless arguments with those who knowingly disagree with him.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,I hope you've been well. I missed you for a while there.
Jack ran out on our debate. He said it was at Is 1:18's urging because I am a heretic, but Paul and I have been discoursing daily ever since.
Hmmmm…..
Take care
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2010,23:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,14:40) Yea I can judge these things for the scriptures tell us to test the Spirits and your words and doctrine does not pass the the Spiritual or the Scriptural test! WJ
WJ, It seems to me that you preach a different Jesus than Paul and the others and apparently recieve a different spirit than I do. You think you have the truth by spirit, but watch out! Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Best to check the fruits against the Scriptures.
MikeYou are speaking shadows and dust!
I do not deny any scripture as being truth. NH denies certain scriptures as being corrupt or shouldn't be there like Matt 28:19 and you yourself doubts it. That is the work of satan!
The scriptures you quote concerning the Father as being the “One True God” is what we believe. But we also believe that the term “One True God” is not exclusive to the Father just as the Only Lord and Master is not exclusive to the Son.
In fact in context Paul clearly says that “There is no God but one'.
Since the scriptures call Jesus God in more than one place starting with Isa 9:6, and the Apostles like John, Thomas, Luke, Paul, Peter, and Jude and many of the Church Fathers called Jesus their God, and believe that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are One God, of the same essence then our confession is more in line with the scriptures and Biblical history than yours is Mike.
For you say that Jesus is “a god” (Polytheism) but not your God. Though the scriptures claim he is God, and if he is God then he can only be “The True God” and if he is God then he is someone’s God but not yours!
Ignatius the earliest of the Fathers who was appointed as Overseer or Bishop of Antioch in 69 A.D. was a Christian during most of the Apostle John's lifetime and one of John's disciples. It was probably the Apostle John who appointed Ignatius as Overseer of Antioch.
He writes in a letter to the Ephesians…
“The source of unity and election is genuine suffering which you undergo by the will of the Father “and of Jesus Christ, our God“…..You are imitators of God; and it was God's blood that stirred you up once more….I received your large congregation in the person of Onesimus, your bishop in this world…”
(Possibly the Onesimus Paul wrote about in the book of Philemon).
“There is only one Physician: He who in the flesh and Spirit alike, begotten and unbegotten, is God come in the flesh. He who in death is true life, who sprang from Mary and from God, who first suffered and then did not suffer pain anymore, Jesus Christ our Lord …….”Our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived of Mary of the seed of David and yet of the Holy Spirit according to God's plan of salvation…..God was revealing Himself in human form to bring newness of eternal life.”
Put that along with the writings of John, Paul, Peter, Luke and Jude and you will see that without a doubt it is you and the Arians that brought damnable heresies in the Church and began preaching another Jesus!
Mike, notice that Ignatius says…
“There is only one Physician: He who in the flesh and Spirit alike, begotten and unbegotten, is God come in the flesh.
He is simply reflecting the beliefs of John the Beloved when he said…
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
And that same Word was begotten when he came in the flesh, yet he is the unbegotten Spirit that was always with the Father, The Eternal Life. 1 John 1:1-3 – 1 John 5:20
The scriptures and history is on our side!
For centuries the Arain doctrines have been exposed as being heretical but satan likes to keep his lies alive!
You my friend preach the wrong Jesus!
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,22:52) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,16:14) Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,13:07) Hey at least he changed his name from the thinker (which didn't suit) to something more accurate. After all, he does jump around quite a bit trying to dodge difficulties.
I don't see it that way. Jack is an anomaly in this forum – he consistently and cogently answers questions. He answers the whole post and doesn't cherry pick. I haven't seen him run from anyone.
Ask him, he'll tell you: When ever I ask him to explain inconsistencies in what he presents,
he ignores those Posts, instead choosing to engage in endless arguments with those who knowingly disagree with him.
Well if all he wanted to do was to “engage in endless arguments with those who knowingly disagree with him”, then you would think he would ablige you.But there are obvious reasons why he ignores you and it is not because he is running away!
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2010,22:06) Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2010,10:15) Can Jehovah have an offspring begotten by Him before time and give Him His name, Jehovah. That doesn't make the offspring Jehovah the same Jehovah that gave Him life.
Hi Kathi,But they didn't name him Zacharias. Can you find one person in the entire Bible who DOES have the same name as their father?
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,
Whenever you see “son of…” that is part of the person's name and includes the father's name.See here:
A Hebrew name begins with a given name, followed by ben (son of) or bat (daughter of), followed by the person's father's Hebrew name. If the person is a kohein (descendant of Aaron), the name is followed by “ha-Kohein.” If the person is a Levite (descendant of the tribe of Levi), the name is followed by “ha-Levi.” If the person or his father is a rabbi, some follow the name with “ha-Rav.” This format of naming is seen as early as the Torah where, for example, Moses' successor Joshua is repeatedly referred to as Yehoshua ben Nun (Joshua, son of Nun). Note that the surname is not the same from generation to generation: Abraham's son Isaac is Yitzchak ben Avraham; Isaac's son Jacob is Ya'akov ben Yitzchak, and so forth. Moses' Hebrew name would be Moshe ben Amram ha-Levi (because he is a member of the tribe of Levi but not a descendant of Aaron), while his brother Aaron would be Aharon ben Amram ha-Kohein (because Aaron was a priest).Found here: http://www.jewfaq.org/jnames.htm
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2010,23:46) Hi WJ,
Was 1 Jn5 7 added or are such claims the work of satan?
1 John 5:7 was in some later manuscripts, but the problem you have is Matt 28:19 is in every extant MSS there is!WJ
Hello,
This might help understand Col 1:15, just read the verses here and see the definitions of firstborn and creation:Deut 21:17 NET
Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved wife as firstborn and give him the double portion of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power – to him should go the right of the firstborn.Col 1:15 NET He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,
1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.
1:17 He himself is before all things and all things are held together in him.In Deut 21:17 we see the natural definition of what a firstborn is: the beginning of a father's procreative power. And in Col 1:16 we see what is meant by the word “creation” in v. 15: all things in heaven and on earth (which obviously does not include the Father or the Son since they were already present within the context. So if we plug those definitions into Col 1:16 it is paraphrased like this:
1:15 27 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn, the beginning of the Father's procreative power, over all things in heaven and on earthFurthermore, Col 1:16 tells us that all things were created by the Firstborn and therefore the Firstborn was obviously procreated before the Firstborn created everything in heaven and on earth which includes mankind but is not limited to mankind, it also includes angels for instance.
That is how I understand this verse.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2010,15:20) Hi Ed, I hope you've been well. I missed you for a while there.
Take care
mike
Hi Mike,I'm glad to hear this from you!
I always to to add to “our” understanding of “Our YHVH”!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,15:50) But there are obvious reasons why he ignores you and it is not because he is running away! WJ
Hi WJ,Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
thinking instead they can get people to 'submit' to their (satanic) demands!
Are you one of these deceivers, WJ? (Mark 13:6)Mark 13:6: For many shall come in my name(Christian),
saying, 'i am'(in authority); and shall deceive many.We should “all” go instead where the “Truth” leads!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,15:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2010,23:46) Hi WJ,
Was 1 Jn5 7 added or are such claims the work of satan?
1 John 5:7 was in some later manuscripts, but the problem you have is Matt 28:19 is in every extant MSS there is!WJ
Hi WJ,So you admit 1John 5:7 may have been added to “The Bible”; as the evidence suggests!
Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
EDYou seek no such thing and the words in your post prove it.
You just proved my point!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,16:37) Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
EDYou seek no such thing and the words in your post prove it.
You just proved my point!
WJ
Hi WJ,How so?
I also asked you why you said I was hypocritical, but you have yet to explain that either. (Rev.12:10)
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 54:17)
Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,16:37) Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
EDYou seek no such thing and the words in your post prove it.
You just proved my point!
WJ
Hi WJ,How so?
I also asked you why you said I was hypocritical, but you have yet to explain that either. (Rev.12:10)
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 54:17)
EDIf you can't see the obvious in your post then why should I waste my time getting into an argument with you?
Your post was accusing, and patronizing was full of ad hominems toward me, yet you say…
Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
See it now? As far as you being a hypocrite, your post IMO reveals that also.But this is why Jack or myself do not like to have dialoge with you just like others here is because your post is always critical and end up with ad hominems and lame accusations and attacks on the person rather than a scriptural debate.
So don't expect me to carry this useless conversation with you any further for it just becomes a mind game with you.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,17:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,16:37) Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
EDYou seek no such thing and the words in your post prove it.
You just proved my point!
WJ
Hi WJ,How so?
I also asked you why you said I was hypocritical, but you have yet to explain that either. (Rev.12:10)
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 54:17)
EDIf you can't see the obvious in your post then why should I waste my time getting into an argument with you?
Your post was accusing, and patronizing was full of ad hominems toward me, yet you say…
Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
See it now? As far as you being a hypocrite, your post IMO reveals that also.But this is why Jack or myself do not like to have dialoge with you just like others here is because your post is always critical and end up with ad hominems and lame accusations and attacks on the person rather than a scriptural debate.
So don't expect me to carry this useless conversation with you any further for it just becomes a mind game with you.
WJ
Hi WJ,So you would rather continually Post (in an unending argument)
with others who clearly do not seek agreement with you?Rather than discuss the inconsistencies I see with what you present, knowing that I do seek agreement with you.
That doesn't make any sense; isn't the goal to seek agreement?Please explain to me that would be your pursuit here?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,01:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,16:37) Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
EDYou seek no such thing and the words in your post prove it.
You just proved my point!
WJ
Hi WJ,How so?
I also asked you why you said I was hypocritical, but you have yet to explain that either. (Rev.12:10)
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 54:17)
EDIf you can't see the obvious in your post then why should I waste my time getting into an argument with you?
Your post was accusing, and patronizing was full of ad hominems toward me, yet you say…
Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2010,00:27) Yea, it's because I seek agreement and continuity in the body of Christ, while others don't; (Philip.1:15)
See it now? As far as you being a hypocrite, your post IMO reveals that also.But this is why Jack or myself do not like to have dialoge with you just like others here is because your post is always critical and end up with ad hominems and lame accusations and attacks on the person rather than a scriptural debate.
So don't expect me to carry this useless conversation with you any further for it just becomes a mind game with you.
WJ
WJ,
You are right on there! Ed J seeks unity with only part of the body of Christ…the part that doesn't stand up to expose his deceitfulness. He is deceiving even himself to think that he seeks unity with the whole body of Christ. He sent me a nasty un-called for PM telling me basically how he is not going to have anything to do with me if I say anything to him, all because I stood up to him about his re-wording my posts. So much for his seeking unity.Unity will not come without love and humility (admitting when you are wrong as part of that humility). Love and humility is a high road towards unity, imo.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Edit)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hi WJ,So you would rather continually Post (in an unending argument)
with others who clearly do not seek agreement with you?
Rather than discuss the inconsistencies I see with what you present, knowing that I do seek agreement with you.
That doesn't make any sense; isn't the goal to seek agreement?Please explain to me why that would be your pursuit here?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS> This is the best I can do without an “Edit button”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2010,15:50) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,22:52) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,16:14) Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,13:07) Hey at least he changed his name from the thinker (which didn't suit) to something more accurate. After all, he does jump around quite a bit trying to dodge difficulties.
I don't see it that way. Jack is an anomaly in this forum – he consistently and cogently answers questions. He answers the whole post and doesn't cherry pick. I haven't seen him run from anyone.
Ask him, he'll tell you: When ever I ask him to explain inconsistencies in what he presents,
he ignores those Posts, instead choosing to engage in endless arguments with those who knowingly disagree with him.
Well if all he wanted to do was to “engage in endless arguments with those who knowingly disagree with him”, then you would think he would ablige you.But there are obvious reasons why he ignores you and it is not because he is running away!
WJ
Thanks Keith,I have no interest whatsoever in discoursing with ED J. That's all there is to it. I will post a reply to him once in a while when I deem it beneficial.
Jack
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