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Revelation 20: 7- 15 (New International Version)
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.* I noticed something from these verses…can you see a difference in these verses?
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Respond please.
I still don't think that universalism is true. I did notice some differences in these two verses though which have me wonder.
Hi chap,
To what difference are you referring other than that one is called the lake of burning sulfur, and the other is lake of fire.
Tim
The first refering to satan, the false prophet, and the beast, says that, '”They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'” The second, refering to man, says that, “'If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.'” You see it kind of seems that Satan, the false prophet, and the beast will be tormented forever but it does not say man will also be tormented 'night and day forever and ever, also.' See what I mean?
Quote (acertainchap @ July 02 2007,23:53) Revelation 20: 7- 15 (New International Version) 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.* I noticed something from these verses…can you see a difference in these verses?
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Respond please.
Hi acertainchap.
The NIV has that scripture wrongly translated, as in the King James version as well. The correct translation is:10 And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.
You see, an eon is not forever, it is a period of time. The greek word “eon” is mistanslated many times in most versions.
Blessings.
Hi,
One of the clearest evidences for this being true would be that we would never hear of it.
There would be not point in telling anyone this new gospel.
But this new gospel is keenly preached.Quote (chosenone @ July 03 2007,14:06)
Hi acertainchap.
The NIV has that scripture wrongly translated, as in the King James version as well. The correct translation is:10 And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.
You see, an eon is not forever, it is a period of time. The greek word “eon” is mistanslated many times in most versions.
Blessings.
Yes we should use that version from the CLNT, which, by the way, is a Bible translated by one man who happened to be a strong proponent of universal reconciliation. No bias in that version. I particularly like how it renders John 3:16:For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian.
Well, we knew it wouldn't last but an eon sure beats the 70-100 years we have here.
Quote (chosenone @ July 03 2007,14:06) Quote (acertainchap @ July 02 2007,23:53) Revelation 20: 7- 15 (New International Version) 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.* I noticed something from these verses…can you see a difference in these verses?
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Respond please.
Hi acertainchap.
The NIV has that scripture wrongly translated, as in the King James version as well. The correct translation is:10 And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.
You see, an eon is not forever, it is a period of time. The greek word “eon” is mistanslated many times in most versions.
Blessings.
I'm not so sure, I've always believed that this meant without end.Quote (acertainchap @ July 04 2007,08:24) ]
I'm not so sure, I've always believed that this meant without end.
Hi Chap,You have always believed that this meant without end because that is what you were told to believe.
If eon means an age, and it does, what do you think that eons of eons would mean? Without anyone telling you.
Tim
Hi Chap
You posted an interesting topic.
The problem of misunderstanding these scriptures, begins with our Pastors who preach, unless you are saved now or before you die, you go to hell.
Did anybody ever wonder what the millennium is for? If all the saved go to heaven, and all the unsaved go to hell; who is left? Christ is going to rule and reign for a thousand years; rule and reign whom? and what about the resurrection; who is that for? And for what reason are the dead resurrected? They come out of hell, probably still on fire, or at least smoking; and then their told, we have a better place for you, the lake of fire, it's a little hotter there for you.Christ will judge the world, he is the great teacher, not the great condemner. He will teach the whole world with the help of his kings and priest. And only if during this time you refuse to listen;
Acts 3:23 “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.”
How can anyone being resurrected, expect to be in the book of life? Jesus said there are none good, not even one. He also said;
John 5:28 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice.”
ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES, WHO ARE IN THE GRAVE? ALL THAT ARE DEAD!
It seems simple enough, doesn't' it?v. 29 “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (judgement).”
Who are the once that have done good? They are the saints, the came up in the first resurrection, the resurrection of life. Why is it called the resurrection of life;
Rev. 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
They have proven themselves, they are spirit beings, they have nothing more to fear.
Hear is what Paul said;1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
I'm counting on that, aren't you?
v. 23 “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
This may come as a shock to some and as a relieve for others; we are not now dying for our own sins, we all die because of the death curse on Adam.
Only after our resurrection, during the millennium, can and will we die for our sins, unless we repent. The great white throne judgement is the millennium. That is the time you can get your name into the book of life. Satan wont be around, no other beast/ruler will rule over you, neither will you have to wonder what false prophet to believe.
After the thousand years are up, Satan will be loosed, Rev. 20:7. It is man's final test of loyalty to God and Christ. And sadly the bible tells us, there will be millions that will follow Satan, v. 8. As they approach Jerusalem, God sends fire down from heaven and destroys them all, v.9. By this time, all ideas for man made government/beast, and man made religion/false prophets, would have died, burned up, v. 10.
How do you destroy death and the grave -hades-? v. 14. Death is a condition, brought on by sin; and the grave is a place were you put the dead. The only way you can destroy both is, by destroying the one that causes that condition, Satan the devil.1Cor. 15:26 “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”
Heb. 2:14 “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that HAD the power of death, that is, the Devil.”Satan will be the LAST to be thrown into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:10. Sulfur makes the fire burn hotter, more intense; I believe it is to emphasize the finality of the second death.
Mal. 4:1 “For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of host, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.”
v. 3 “And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of host.”Thank you for the opportunity to share with you my thoughts,
God bless
HI,
Check the fruit.
http://www.carm.org/uni/uniclose.htmFur and fangs?
Nick.
No truth by scripture, just a lot of insults. Same as endured by any that disagree with Nick.Blessings,
Chosenone …It's interesting who Nick can through out all His dispersions and produce nothing in defense of His positions.
I believe like it's not God will any Parish and if God does All thing in accordance with His will then all will be saved. But what really bothers me is why would not everyone want that for everyone who every lived, That God would bring them out of their graves and Judge them and open their eyes so the would turn back to him and He would heal them and save them. What kind of mind woulds even want to see it differently, only a fearful and unbelieving mind would. I love it when every one wants Gods grace to apply to them but cant stand it being applied to others as well.
Anyway………love and peace to you and yours brother……….gene
Hi GB,
A fine theory that lacks any support except opinion.
Better to believe scripture and to fear the God Who abhors tampering with truth.Nick.
You say “Better to believe scripture…” Who more than you doesn't believe scripture? I've asked you to show me why you don't believe Matt. 15:24, and you can't answer!
You also say there is no scripture supporting the salvation of all. When I show you 1Tim 4:19 “God is the saviour of all mankind”, you ignore that also. And YOU accuse us of not believing scripture???Blessings.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2008,08:34) Hi GB,
A fine theory that lacks any support except opinion.
Better to believe scripture and to fear the God Who abhors tampering with truth.
Nick.
What's your theory?Hi CO,
Did you miss my reply?God saves everyman everyday.
But eternal salvation is not for all.
The lake of fire is stoked for the goats.
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