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Nick,
If the Son of God is you Lord, then why do you not recognize Him as the Lord in the first commandment?“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Hi LU,
His lordship began at his anointing by God.
The OT calls his Father the Lord God.
Do you think this verse prefers him over his Father?
The OT also calls Jesus the Lord God,they are both Jehovah as the God of gods and the Lord of lords. Jehovah is the Lord of lords in the OT, Jesus is identified as the Lord of lords in the NT…every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is YHVH (LORD).
Paul calls Him (the Son) the only ‘kyrios’ and John tells us that He is the kyrios kyrion which translated means Lord of lords.
Hi LU,
So you call him a liar offering evidence from the bible?
How can he be your lord when you disrespect his testimony about himself?
Think about it Nick, since I am offering evidence from the Bible and you are in disagreement with it, then you are calling the Bible a liar or maybe it is that you are in denial of truth. Read this objectively:
In the OT, things of God are done in the name of YHWH, in the NT, things of God are addressed to the Father, in the name of the Son. That is quite different.
In the OT, YHWH is prayed to. In the NT, the Father and the Son are prayed to. That is also quite different.
In the OT, mercy and grace are sought after from YHWH. In the NT, mercy and grace are sought after from the Father and the Son. That is another big difference.
I would think that there must be some sort of spiritual blindness to not see this obvious difference and acknowledge that our salvation is from two persons, not just one.
Some people who claim to worship YHWH do not seem to understand that YHWH is both the God of gods and the Lord of lords and that is two persons as Paul clarifies for us and tells us that we have one God and one Lord and speaks of them as two persons. The Spirit is an extension of them and seems to me to be their omnipresence although some think of the Spirit as another person, I have yet to understand this if this is so.
So, in regards to: “I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before Me,” since YHWH is both God of gods and the Lord of lords, we should honor both as YHWH and not only recognize one as YHWH. That would truly be obeying the first commandment as I understand it.
Jesus honored the first commandment. He truly knew who YHWH was and that He, was a part of YHWH as the Lord of lords. He also spent quite of bit of teaching to clarify that He, as the Son, the Lord of lords, was NOT the Father. Some people try to make them the same person but scripture is clear that they are distinct.
Some people simply deny this truth.
Hi LU
if Jesus has an eternal past how can he be called the second Adam? I already know you are going to say something like that’s only referring to his flesh so here is the thing in what meaning is this: Hebrews 5:5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.”
If he BECAME his FATHER wouldn’t that mean at some point he was not his Father?
Also LU here is some food for thought: Daniel 2:37
Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.Notice here a term that you would also apply to Jesus and rightly so and yet this refers to Nebuchadrezzar
also there are all sorts of people named lords so in that context of course Jesus is Lord of lords in the context of HUMANS the Bible explains this: King James Bible Psalm 45:7
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.Now keep in mind the Psalmist is calling the King in the Psalms a “God” : Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre
Now see:
Psalm 45 King James Version (KJV)
45 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.
2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king’s enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Now you can see clearly that even the term God was applied metaphorically to any great/mighty person but none in fact are gods because there are NO “gods” There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and it is HE who sent Jesus into this world according to JESUS
LU,
You have a new definition for conceived as the last I knew conceived means that a new person comes to be. That is what happened with me and my siblings.
Are you saying it is different with Jesus because you say so?
Nick
you said:Part of God yet distinct from God?
Sounds like mystery babylon.
Every son I have is a part of me yet distinct from me. Doctors usually understand this about sons.
@bodhitharta
Hebrews 5:5 doesn’t have the word ‘father’ in the Greek so it doesn’t literally say what you quoted. Here is a more literal translation:
5So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him,
“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”;Nick
you asked:You use intellectual arguments to try to understand what is spiritual?
I use the New Testament of God to explain the Old Testament. You do realize that the NT sheds light on the OT, don’t you, Nick.
Every son I have is a part of me yet distinct from me. Doctors usually understand this about sons.
So are the sons of God to God. But are they the one true God because of that? No.
Are you and your sons the one true LU.
For us, there is one God the Father.
@ bodhitharta
Remember this regarding how the Son is God, different from others who might be called god.
How is Jesus as theos different from others who are called theos (other than the Father)?
The disciples prayed to Jesus and none of the others who are called theos (other than the Father).
No other theos (other than the Father) can forgive the sins of mankind.
No other theos (other than the Father) has an omnipresence ability.
No other theos (other than the Father) predicts the future with 100% accuracy.
No other theos appeared in the flesh to become a man who beforehand was a divine being receiving glory from the Father before creation.
No other theos (other than the Father) desires a loving, intimate relationship with us.
No other theos (other than the Father) is perfect love, wisdom and power, full of grace and truth.
No other theos (other than the Father) was involved in creating us.
No other theos (other than the Father) was involved in saving us from all our sin and offering us eternal life.
No other theos (other than the Father) will have dominion over all creation for ever and ever.
No other theos provides the direct access to the Father.
No other theos ranks higher than the Father and Jesus.
No other theos (other than the Father) has unlocked your prison cell, opened the prison door, and invited you to leave your prison…freeing you from the bondage of sin and offering you an abundant, eternal life.
Bo, picture a closed prison cell that entrapped mankind due to the consequences of Adam and Eve choosing to disobey God. Only through belief in and serving the true Messiah, Jesus Christ-the only begotten Son of God as our LORD and Savior do we walk out of that prison cell. When Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead, he paid the price to redeem us back to Himself and His Father, He opened the prison cell door for good-Jesus conquered death. Many choose to remain inside the prison cell as if they don’t know the door is WIDE open. Jesus has sent His followers to tell people that the prison door is OPEN to EVERYONE but walking through the doorway into the abundant, eternal life requires those who believe in Him to make Him LORD of their life together with His Father.
You can ask the same question to either one of them and get the same answer…they are both perfect love and both near to you now. You have a choice to walk out of the prison or not…the door is open to ALL.
you asked:
So “Today I have begotten you” means there was a point in time in which he was begotten, right?
Time is relative as to who’s perspective you are referring to, man’s or God’s. The day the Son was begotten was a specific event which happened before creation. He existed before this event in a pre-begotten state.
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