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t8
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 18 2009,07:21) Think about that. Eve is the image/glory of Adam and she is not Adam yet she is adam.
What does this mean?adam is the same word for man as in mankind. Adam or THE adam is the name of the first man.
The difference is identity versus quality or type.
Your theory fails!The reaseon being you cannot show how Jesus is less than the Father in quality or type!
Are you proposing that Adam is greater than Eve in type or nature? Is Eve 100% human or not?
Tell us in what way is “Adam” greater than “adam” in type or nature?
You are proposing that Jesus was “born” out of the Father and is less than the Father in type or nature, therfore you are proposing that Jesus is some sort of demi-god!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2009,14:51) Hi WJ,
Have you been born of God?
1Jn2,3,4,5?Are you some sort of demigod?
NHNo because I am not God at all!
Thats the point!
Jesus was not born out of the Father aesexually as t8 is proposing!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2009,06:02) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 22 2009,03:58) t8 said: Quote Exposing lies using the scripture is also a good thing and opposition supplies this on tap so we can systematically show it to be false. If exposing lies is what you are about then why do you discriminate by exposing only trinitarian “lies?” Kathi's view the Son came out of God's “womb” is thoroughly pagan. Paganism and any other error is acceptable so long as Jesus is kept in His “place.” Right?
Bodhitharta denies that Christ was crucified. He gets a pass because he keeps Jesus in His place.
thinker
Hi TT,
Thank you for admitting the trinity lie has been exposed.
Do not water the plants that will be pulled out.
Nick,
Don't be a wise guy. I said “lies” not lies.thinker
Hi TT,
Indeed many such lies from the father of lies.
But dig deeper and rest on the words of Jesus.taking new wine and placing it in old wine skins does not work, placing old wine in a new wine skin does.
kol tuv
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the goverment shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, the mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace!!!
Quote (katjo @ Sep. 22 2009,13:20) Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the goverment shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, the mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace!!!
Shall BE called! Notice the person has to be BORN first and has to be GIVEN the government. The CHILD, the HUMAN BEING will BECOME an everlasting Father, a Prince of Peace! Jesus BECAME the Christ, a master, and our savior. Jesus became the prince of peace and everlasting Father, he wasn't ALWAYS such.He is also known as……….
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Jesus was NOT YHWH, he was the child that would be made by YHWH. Jesus was and is not the Most High God known from the OT, or the One True God known from the NT, the Father is.
Isaiah 9:6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace. 7 To the increase of the princely power, And of peace, there is no end, On the throne of David, and on his kingdom, To establish it, and to support it, In judgment and in righteousness, Henceforth, even unto the age, The zeal of Jehovah of Hosts doth this.
YHWH has brought forth a CHILD to BE His Son, He did not bring forth Himself to be His OWN child!
Matthew 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
Ps 8:6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,
Heb 2:7 You have made him a little lower than the angels;You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.
Pslam110:1 A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
2Ki 19:15 And Hezekiah prayeth before Jehovah, and saith, `O Jehovah, God of Israel, inhabiting the cherubs, Thou [art] God Himself — Thyself alone — to all the kingdoms of the earth: Thou hast made the heavens and the earth.
2Ki 19:19 And now, O Jehovah our God, save us, we pray Thee, out of his hand, and know do all kingdoms of the earth that Thou [art] Jehovah God — Thyself alone.'
Psalms 72:18 Blessed is Jehovah God, God of Israel, He alone is doing wonders, 19 And blessed [is] the Name of His honour to the age, And the whole earth is filled [with] His honour. Amen, and amen! 20 The prayers of David son of Jesse have been ended.
Isa 37:16`Jehovah of Hosts, God of Israel, inhabiting the cherubs, Thou [art] God Himself — Thyself alone — to all kingdoms of the earth, Thou hast made the heavens and the earth.
1Ki 18:36 And it cometh to pass, at the going up of the [evening-]present, that Elijah the prophet cometh nigh and saith, `Jehovah, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, to-day let it be known that Thou [art] God in Israel, and I Thy servant, that by Thy word I have done the whole of these things;
Ac 3:22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
Ac 7:37 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.'
Psalms16:8 I did place Jehovah before me continually, Because — at my right hand I am not moved. 9 Therefore hath my heart been glad, And my honour doth rejoice, Also my flesh dwelleth confidently: 10 For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, Nor givest thy saintly one to see corruption.
Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
YHWH is shown to be ONE person, and He is the person who has created Jesus and made Jesus to be our savior and master. Jesus is APPOINTED to be king overall the earth, under the WILL of his Father YHWH. YHWH clearly created the heavens and the earth, and He made Jesus a worthy man. YHWH perfected the man Jesus and sat him on His right hand, and gave him dominion over the WORKS of HIS HANDS.
Jodi……….You have it right Sis, don't let these false Trinitarians and Preexistences change that which GOD has given you .
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 22 2009,06:43) The reaseon being you cannot show how Jesus is less than the Father in quality or type!
I don't need to. All that you need to know is that God is the source and Jesus is his image. Jesus is not the source and not the Most High.Similarly Eve is from man. Both are adam, but only one is Adam.
i.e., both are adam in nature or quality. Only one is Adam in person/identity.
One is original and the other is the image and glory of the original.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 22 2009,07:07) Jesus was not born out of the Father aesexually as t8 is proposing!
I never mentioned the word asexually.
And is it not better to let Jesus speak than WJ?John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.I believe Jesus words. That is my stance.
T8……….So did Jeremiah, John the baptist, Cyrus, all the Judges and Prophets of Old came from GOD, He even formed them in there mothers womb, as Paul's said He did Him also, in Fact Jesus even say that they were GODS already and GOD gave them to him. It also says For who HE (GOD) foreknew He predestined them and called and Justified. Jesus was in the beginning in the Plan and will of GOD , He did Not preexist His Berth Brother , I wish you could see that. T8.
love and peace to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (katjo @ Sep. 22 2009,13:20) Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the goverment shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, the mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace!!!
Amen kat.Thanks,
thinkerJodi Lee said:
Quote Shall BE called! Notice the person has to be BORN first and has to be GIVEN the government Jodi Lee,
How convenient for you allow the future tense to speak on its own. Paul said that the Son WILL BE subject which implies that He is not subject now. How about some consistence Jodi?
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 22 2009,16:31) Jodi……….You have it right Sis, don't let these false Trinitarians and Preexistences change that which GOD has given you . peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Gene,
Jodi believes “SHALL BE called” but does not believe “WILL BE subject” in reference to Christ. Again, just more of anti-trinitarian's picking and choosing which scriptures they will believe. Jodi takes it even to which future tense verbs she will believe.You say to let words mean what they say. Yet you say that “man” means “lie” and “coming” means “nsfiguration.”
thinker
Hi TT,
Do you understand authority and how it can be placed in the hands of the lesser by the greater?[Heb7]
All authority was given to Jesus by his God.
Amazing.Quote (Gene @ Sep. 22 2009,17:32) T8……….So did Jeremiah, John the baptist, Cyrus, all the Judges and Prophets of Old came from GOD, He even formed them in there mothers womb, as Paul's said He did Him also, in Fact Jesus even say that they were GODS already and GOD gave them to him. It also says For who HE (GOD) foreknew He predestined them and called and Justified. Jesus was in the beginning in the Plan and will of GOD , He did Not preexist His Berth Brother , I wish you could see that. T8. love and peace to you and yours………………..gene
If that is so then what do you do with these Scriptures
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creatin.”
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that is in Earth…….
verse 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Rev. 3:14…” These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witnes the Beginning of the creation of God.”
These Scriptures clearly tells me that Jesus preexisted before His birth.
In John 17:5 by Jesus own words He said this:” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory I had with you before the world was.”
To me that is not only in the plan of God. He preexisted His Birth here on Earth. Now I wish you would see that and t8 is right in my eyes.
Peace and Love to you, IreneGeorg……..Man himself is in the image of the invisible GOD and is given power over creation as GOD said in Genesis. Check out the word (BY) in the Greek and pick what you want, it can mean (for) through or by . I believe it should be rendered (FOR) him , now why di i believe that it is because if you believe all things were created (BY) him the you have a whole host of Scriptures you must deal with that show that GOD (HIMSELF) created everything (BY) HIMSELF and NO ONE WAS WITH HIM, as Many scriptures say. So you can only believe the way you do by denying many scriptures the oppose this view. How do you reconcile that in you logic, by just ignoring those many scriptures?
Rev. 3:14 ………..Confirms that Jesus is the First born in the (NEW) CREATION of GOD. Jesus is indeed a faithful witness and he is the Beginning of the (NEW) Creation of GOD. GOD said Behold (I) Create all things NEW. Jesus is the (FIRST BORN), of MANY Brethern as scripture says. He was the FIRST to be resurected from the dead and given eternal life. So He is the First born (FROM) the creation of GOD, into the (NEW) Creation (GOD) IS DOING.
Jesus' Glory was a preordained Glory from the foundations of the earth, (BUT) He was MANIFESTED (Brought into existence) IN OUR TIME, as Peter said. Just ask yourself what would be proved by having some preexisting demigod, or super being , which no where scripture speaks of, come and get inside the womb of Mary and come out as some sort of Disguised Human Being and then walk perfectly on earth, what would that have to do with US , How could we relate with such a being seeing He is really nothing like us and never truly was. NO George GOD Brought forth another Pure Human Being exactly like us in (EVERY WAY) without exception and perfected Him and raised Him to eternal life. Jesus is 100% human being without (ANY) exceptions and Had NO preexistence at all , except He was in the (PLAN) and FOREORDAINED WILL of the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD> Jesus is the (FIRST) Perfected HUMAN BEING, He is the FIRST to BE BORN to eternal life of MANY BRETHREN> By taking away Jesus' true humanity you are disrespecting not only Jesus, but GOD the FATHER also. This teaching is Part of the TRINITARIAN LOGIC and is Just as Bad as the Trinity teachings.
To buy that teaching is you would have to throw out over a hundred scriptures in scripture the show differently, Many Jodi and I and Adam have brought out before. That were never answered by any Preexistences. GOD (ALONE) created ALL things by HIS Seven SPIRITS Which are before the THRONE OF GOD. They go two and fro through out (ALL) the earth, they are the very eyes and powers of what we call GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and Irene…………………………..gene
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