Proof jesus is god from paul&#39;s mouth?

Participant

Quote (katjo @ Sep. 13 2009,07:30)

Dont like how it sounds in the King James? NIV Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great. HE APPEARED IN A BODY, was vindicated bt the spirit, was seen by the angels,was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world,was taken up in glory. Different words same meaning!! What's your version read?

Amen sis Kat!

thinker

September 12, 2009 at 9:37 pm#145814

Participant

Hi Kat,
God came in the vessel of His Son.
God visited His people.

Now they remain united in God's Spirit and we can become one with them too.
But we never become God and more than our Lord did.

September 14, 2009 at 3:02 pm#145974

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

Hi Kat,
God came in the vessel of His Son.

Chapter and verse please.

thinker

September 14, 2009 at 5:02 pm#145987

Participant

Thinker….”GOD was (IN) Christ reconciling the world unto himself, Do you see GOD was Christ there, and again Jesus said the FATHER was (IN) (IN) (IN) HIM not that He was GOD. Think about what is written and don't add you false teachings to it. How do you think GOD will be in (ALL) and THROUGH (ALL). He is able to (INDWELL) ALL> So simple for an undeleted mind to see. IMO

gene

September 14, 2009 at 5:05 pm#145988

Participant

Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,05:02)

gene

Gene,
God is not IN Christ now. When Jesus was glorified He was made spirit again like He was before. While in the flesh God was IN Him. But Jesus is spirit now.

thinker

September 14, 2009 at 6:40 pm#146018

Participant

Hi TT,
Really?
Just as you separated the Spirit from God you now want to divide God from His Son?
You are enamored with your own novel speculations.

September 15, 2009 at 3:44 am#146108

Participant

Thinker……Luk 24:39….> Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have.

This was (after) his resurrection from the dead. He also ascended up into Heaven with that body. He also says when the SON OF (MAN) Returns. Jesus is and was 100% Man, who had and has the Spirit of GOD (IN) Him the same as we can also. ” Until we all come to the (FULL) Measure of Christ Jesus. GOD (INDWELLS) His CREATION, and give it life through His Spirit (intellect) with power. Without His spirit (NOTHING) could LIVE, In this whole world. You need to see GOD as SPIRIT that can INDWELL HIS CREATION. Jesus is one of His creation as we all are also. GOD is unique 100% SPIRIT/ POWER. IMO

peace and love…………………….gene

September 15, 2009 at 2:31 pm#146144

Participant

Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,15:44)

Thinker……Luk 24:39….> Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have.

peace and love…………………….gene

Jesus was not glorified UNTIL He ascended to heaven. He is spirit now like He was before. Paul said, “Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God.”

Jesus' present existence in spirit form is proven by the fact that He appeared to Paul in the form of pure light. If Jesus still had His flesh and blood body it would have been burned up. He returned in AD70 in a non-pyhsical way.

thinker

September 15, 2009 at 3:33 pm#146148

Participant

Thimker……….Another wrong on your part , John 20:17…..> Jesus told Mary not to touch him because He had to present Himself to the Father first. And when he did he returned and showed Himself to his disciples and they handled Him also. No where does any scripture say Jesus is Spirit NOW. In fact when he returns he will eat and drink wine with the disciples, as scripture say he will. A SPIRIT HAS (NOT) FLESH AND BONE AS YOU SEE I HAVE. YOU can not see SPIRIT remember NO ONE has seen GOD at any time < He can only be seen through the eye of the mind or through Spirit (intellect). And Thinker Jesus did not say He had a (flesh and blood) body but (flesh and bone) body, it was the resurrected body he had. The same kind of bodies we shall Have also, Spirit is not a body, Spirit lives (IN) a body, that is a major stumbling block to many. IMO

peace and love…………….gene

September 16, 2009 at 1:00 am#146219

dmateo

Participant

I have a very simple understanding on the matter, but might not goes with everyone. Iput a lot of consideration onto myself to write this for fear of what I wrote could be wrong. FOr we are all the fallen, and our understanding is lacking. My greatest fear is God will condemn me for misleading his people with my shallow and incorrect understanding, so I pray to God to guide me in writting this response.

Jesus is the Word of God. Being the word of God he is not created as just like what we say, it comes out from our mouth but not created by us.
Jesus was the first born, nothing was created if it was not through him. This is so true for how did God Create things ? Gen 1:3 God said “Let the be light”. God said. what did come out of God as a result ? the Word. So this conclude that he was the first born and everything was created through him and John 1 “In the beginning the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

Is Jesus God, by all means yes. But is Jesus the All Mighty, the one and only. My understanding is No. Just like Adam is a man, so does that make Abraham a man ? Absolutely. But then does that makes Adam = Abraham, absolutely not. There is only one GOD to us all The Father. Jesus did not Glorify himself as God. He confess many time that he is the Son of God. In my understanding there is a difference between categorisation as God and a personal of the all mighty. God the Father YHWH is the one and only God. Jesus is the one and only Son (John 1:18 : “No one has ever seen God. But God, the one and only Son, is at the Father's side. He has show us what God is like”. This does not means that Jesus is God, The Son bore likeness to the Father, but he is not the one and only God.
Luke 18:19 : “why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good excep God”
John 05:19 : Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
John 05:27 : And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
Psalm 110:1 : The Lord says to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”

Obviously this is not a hard concrete and there will be many argument around it as it has ever been. Something that I kept in myself. Faith comes through hearing, hearing the Word of Gods. Faith is salvation, came through the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God and the bible contains translated / derived Word of God.
We is hard for us to understand the Word of God as we are contaminated by sins. Language is flawed and not perfect for conveying idea. So my understanding can also be wrong due to the fact that I've also fallen from Grace along with us all. But I pray to God that it may be use full and contribute positively to the discussion in here.

September 16, 2009 at 2:03 am#146225

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (dmateo @ Sep. 15 2009,21:00)

Welcome dmateo,
Wow, you have also made the connection of “let there be light” to the “firstborn” the Son of God, the Word that was with God in the beginning. God gave me that connection also. I also believe that the Son of God was not created but did have a beginning with “let there be light.”

God brought forth an offspring with “let there be light”; the Most High God brought forth the only begotten God. The begotten God could not be equal to the always existent God that brought Him forth.

You are here at a good time and I appreciate your humility. You are right that we may be wrong since we are but clay but I do want you to know that you are not alone in your connection of “let there be light” and “firstborn of all creation.” Here is my story:

Quote

Posted: Mar. 08 2008,07:43
Hello all,
I have posted this in pre-existence but I think that it also belongs here:

I grew up as a trinitarian and defended the doctrine when challenged. Then one day I was challenged with the verse Col 1:15-16

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
NASU

I asked God to show me what that term meant “firstborn of all creation.” I surrendered my trinitarian claims to whatever God would show me and it was like I started to read the Bible all new with a different perspective. Well, after about a month of searching scripture and looking for my answer I heard a voice speak in my left ear. Just before I heard that voice, I was reviewing with my son what happened on each day of creation because I was homeschooling him and the kindergarten curriculum was centered around the seven days of creation. I had just asked my son this question, “What happened on day one?” My son responded by saying “God said let there be light” and that is when the voice spoke to me and said “You are the light of the world”.

Now remember that I was meditating on what the “firstborn of all creation” meant for the past month and fervently, and excitedly reading scripture with a whole new perspective. When I asked my son that question I was totally focused on his schooling. I know that voice was not from me without a doubt. Anyway, when I heard the voice say that I immediately thought of Jesus being the Light of the World and that “Let there be light” was God's birthing of His Son by His word as the begotten God. So, I knew that I had to test that and I think about it everyday since. I believe that the firstborn of all creation refers to the light of day one as the begotten God, the Radiant Son of God.

Here are some verses about Jesus being the Light:
John 1:1-10
2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 The Witness John
There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
NASU

Rev 21:22-24
23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
NASU

John 8:12

Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, ” I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
NASU

So, I remain amazed at the simplicity of all of this.

For God's glory, K

God bless and protect you for there are cruel people on here that have some of the meanest ways and yet boast a Christian faith. We get to practice forgiving them a lot and know that God will even use it for our good. Hang in there when the naysayers come, it is easier when you picture them wearing lace on their boxers

I'm truly glad you are here!!!
God's love,
Kathi/LU/Lightenup

September 16, 2009 at 6:53 am#146237

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 12 2009,02:18)

The “divine nature” simply refers to God's communicable attributes such as love, kindness, patience and so forth. Men may share in God's communicable attributes.

Human nature makes one a human.

It is also written that we will share in divine nature, so are we part of the Trinity? Quadrinity?

September 16, 2009 at 3:36 pm#146252

Participant

T8……….More then quadrant, That God may be in (ALL) and through (ALL) So I guess (ALL) are GOD, according to TRINITARIAN Logic, Now then who do we worship, seeing we and ALL are GOD.

peace and love to you and yours……………………gene

September 16, 2009 at 5:02 pm#146266

RokkaMan

Participant

LightenUp I like you're understand of the Trinity but one thing i'd like to clear up(seeing as how there is a bridge between your logic and the traditon trinitarians like WJ and TT)

Is that Jesus and the Father are the SAME being.

So when you say there is A most high God and a begotten God.

Do not seperate them

You can only seperate their identity but not their being

Because if I cut my arm off, even tho we are seperate….my arm isn't his OWN human being…he still comes from me.

So my arm is still a piece of me altho seperated.

So Jesus is equally God in essence, although he is in the Seperate Identity of the Son…because he is The Word that came forth from The Father's mouth before creation.

If you understand it like this, it'll reconcile your beliefs and remove the polytheistic tag that some may see when you type.

September 16, 2009 at 6:32 pm#146273

Participant

Hi R,
Jesus is the Son of God.
Not another god.

September 16, 2009 at 6:35 pm#146275

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2009,14:32)

Hi R,
Jesus is the Son of God.
Not another god.

Why are you not making that statement to Kathi?

Is it because of your ant-trinitarian bias?

September 16, 2009 at 6:35 pm#146276

Participant

Hi WJ,
You should know better.

September 17, 2009 at 1:46 am#146317

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ Sep. 16 2009,13:02)

LightenUp I like you're understand of the Trinity but one thing i'd like to clear up(seeing as how there is a bridge between your logic and the traditon trinitarians like WJ and TT)

Is that Jesus and the Father are the SAME being.

So when you say there is A most high God and a begotten God.

Do not seperate them

You can only seperate their identity but not their being

Because if I cut my arm off, even tho we are seperate….my arm isn't his OWN human being…he still comes from me.

So my arm is still a piece of me altho seperated.

So Jesus is equally God in essence, although he is in the Seperate Identity of the Son…because he is The Word that came forth from The Father's mouth before creation.

If you understand it like this, it'll reconcile your beliefs and remove the polytheistic tag that some may see when you type.

Rockaman,
I would be very interested in discussing this with you privately. So, if you are willing then PM me. I am so over the harassment of the two true-ish trinitarians that follow me around from thread to thread on here.

Thanks,
Kathi

September 17, 2009 at 1:50 am#146319