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Mandy……..So the word of GOD delivered you from the false conception of the TRINITY, rejoice GOD saw you intents and gave you understanding of the TRUTH, rejoice and be happy. Rest in the fact HE will guide you in the way of TRUTH by the Spirit (Intellect) of Truth given you Praise GOD and i say rejoice! Sis. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Mandy………………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 06 2009,12:09) TO ALL:
The first Christians were being changed from the image of Moses to the image of Christ.2 Corinthians 3:7-18:
Quote
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.Observations:
1. The ministry of Moses was the ministry OF DEATH, vs. 7
2. The glory of Moses was a glory that was PASSING AWAY, vs. 7
3. The ministry of righteousness (Christ) EXCEEDS MUCH MORE IN GLORY, vs. 9
4. The temporal glory of Moses was being replaced by Christ's ENDURING GLORY WHICH WAS BETTER, vs. 11
5. Those who cling to the glory of Moses have a VEIL ON THEIR HEARTS, vs. 15
6. When one turns to Christ the VEIL IS TAKEN AWAY, vs. 16
7. When the veil is taken away from a man's heart that man is transformed from the image of Moses TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST, vs. 18Conclusion: The glory of Christ is superior to the glory of Moses.
thinker
Yes indeed!Moses was given the law, which just condemened, this law is referred in the passage as the ministry of death.
Jesus was given the Spirit, which produced righteousness and is thus known as the ministry of righteousness.
Man cannot follow the law, he needs the Spirit of the Father in order to be righteous. Recieving the Spirit as Jesus did, we will be like him!
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 06 2009,13:07) Mandy……..So the word of GOD delivered you from the false conception of the TRINITY, rejoice GOD saw you intents and gave you understanding of the TRUTH, rejoice and be happy. Rest in the fact HE will guide you in the way of TRUTH by the Spirit (Intellect) of Truth given you Praise GOD and i say rejoice! Sis. IMO peace and love to you and yours Mandy………………..gene
Hey bro,“…the way of truth….”, yes. What is truth? Or shall I rephrase that and ask, “Which truth?”.
I will be guided. You will be guided. Keith is guided. Nick is guided. Jodi is guided. Kathi and Irene are guided……..
Yet we all possess different “truths” by the same Spirit.
Disheartening, to say the least.
Love,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2009,13:01) Hi not 3,
Why?
Because it's foundation is suspect. Whatever you build upon it cannot be thought to be the ultimate truth. There are so many who build upon it and their “truth” is, well, I just don't know.Quote Yet we all possess different “truths” by the same Spirit. No Beloved Mandy there is not different truths by the same spirit, there cannot be. There is only one truth. We all come to a time in our walk where we question and ponder on what others have to say and what we feel or believe.
Sometimes when we are in need of milk, we try to eat meat, and vise/versa, take your alone time little one with just you and Christ, read scritptures and pray for understanding, no one will be able to teach you and explain better then the set apart spirit, ask, seek it will be given, remember he is your father, if you ask for fish, he will not give you a stone, He loves you, and all his chosen love you too.
Take care and take prayer
Quote (david @ Sep. 06 2009,10:23) I googled “the only true.” “WATER POLO, THE ONLY TRUE COMPETATIVE SPORT.”
When the person said this, they in no way meant that every other sport was a false sport.
They meant….I know you know this….
Their meaning was that Water polo was the most competative or water polo is competative to the ultimate degree.
NOT that every other sport is false.
Some people can't see it david because they don't want to see it.Mandy………..Sometimes we get caught up in what man says, and begin to focus on Mans thoughts from (there) understanding and it can become confusing, But The (Spirit of Truth) is in the mind of the person who has (it) and what he or she hears or reads is run by that filter that is in you. Notice “For the Spirit Both defends us (AND) accuses us, you see it is the director of truth in the person who has it. Even the unconverted can speak truth as well as untruth, in fact they are mingled with both, but the (HOLY SPIRIT) or HOLY INTELLECT, discloses it to us in our minds because (IT) is the Spirit (intellect) of truth and those who have it (CAN NOT ) BE DECEIVED, NO MATTER WHAT THEY READ OR HEAR, BECAUSE THE SPIRIT (intellect of truth) is guiding them. Some times we need to pray and ask GOD for more Spirit. Jesus said He would give more to us. WE need to trust in GOD and (NO) MAN, except Jesus our lord who speaks to us the (FATHERS) Words. Your questioning of what is said is a sign of Spirit (intellect) Mandy. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote But David and his Arian friends think that “god” in reference to angels and men implies that Christ is no better because He is also called “God.” Quote Christ is “COUNTED WORTHY” of more glory than Moses. Yet David in the deceitfulness of his Russelite heart won't obey.
GIVE IT UP DAVID! THE SON OF GOD IS SUPERIOR TO “GODS.”Thinker,
you are not living up to you name. And I have lost tons of respect for you.
I have never implied that Christ is not more glorious than Moses in any way, ever. You charged me with that and then I explained I didn't in any way feel that way. Now, you again accuse me of something I have never even hinted at.It is like me saying that YOU are a son to someone and Jesus is the Son of the Father. This doesn't mean I am equating you with the Son of God, does it? Nope! So, please quite trying to argue against something I never stated, nor believe.
Thankyou.
“What does “no God” mean to you David? Does it mean there is “no god except” the false god that Pharaoh perceived of Moses?” –WJ (p 38)
WJ, are you saying Jehovah made a false god? You also stated:
“No, I am sugesting that Pharaoh acknowledged that Moses was some sort of “a god” who he [Pharaoh] may or may not have worshipped.”–WJ (p 17)
WJ, I don't think Pharaoh worshiped Moses in any way, but you believe he might have.
My question to you:
WHY WOULD “JEHOVAH” have “MADE” a false god for Pharaoh to possibly worship?
Jehovah condemns false gods and he condemns the worship of them, does he not?
david
Also, WJ, do you equate the idea of a “false god” with being “some sort of “a god””?
I'm wondering what you think a false god is. I think of it as something that people believe has power/greatness/mightiness, when in fact, it does not. (Ie: those pieces of wood that had ears, but could not hear, eyes, but could not see, etc. People thought they had power, but the Bible says they had none–they were false gods.)
Quote If the name “Son” in reference to Jesus is far superior than the name “gods” in reference to angels, then the Son is far superior to Moses who was also called a “god.” This really throws a wrench in David's theological works 
Thinker.
I am not certain how you got this idea, that I don't think the Son is “far superior” to Moses.
But, since you keep repeating it, as though it is true, I was wondering if you could show me or quote for all of us where I in any way stated that I believe that.
If you cannot do this, then please stop trying to create some kind of false argument against me.
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,20:32) David said: Quote Paul compared Jesus with Moses. (Heb 3:1-3) David,
Hebrew 3:1-3 does NOT equate Moses with JesusQuote 1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. This clearly says that Jesus has been counted worthy of “more glory” than Moses. He is worthy of the glory of the builder and the builder is God. Therefore, He is counted worthy of glory EQUAL to God.
David said:
Quote ACTS 3:22
“In fact, Moses said, ‘Jehovah God will raise up for YOU from among YOUR brothers a prophet like me. YOU must listen to him according to all the things he speaks to YOU.”
“Like” is relative. It does not imply Moses and Jesus were equal as I have shown above. Your point is lame and out of accord with Hebrews 3:1-3thinker
Thinker,But, nowhere do I ever say or hint they are equal.
You said it was ridiculous of me comparing Moses and Jesus.
Well, I was just trying to figure out what “god” means and looking at the fact that that word was used with reference to Moses, as well as Jesus (and angels and human judges, etc.)
I was comparing them, but never ever ever said they were equal.
You said it was horrible of me to compare Jesus and Moses.
Well several Bible writers do that.
SO, THEN, when you realized this, I guess you created a false argument, saying that I said they were equal. Well, I never did.
You're whole attack against me is based on a false idea that you created just to make it easier to attack me.
For Shame.
I say, “good day to you sir.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,04:36) Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,03:55) Quote No. Moses was not a god at all. To Pharaoh he was and that’s it.
You're doing that thing again where you say one thing and then a second later, contradict it.Pharaoh was not a god “at all.” “To Pharaoh he was…”
Exactly! So you like Pharaoh believe Moses was “a god”!But, YHWH says…
Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and *there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: *for there is no saviour beside me*.Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME”. Isa 43:10
What do those words mean David. YHWH says “THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED” before or after him!
Is YHWH contradicting himself when he says that he will make Moses a god to Pharaoh?
What does “no God” mean to you David? Does it mean there is “no god except” the false god that Pharaoh perceived of Moses?
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,03:55)
Either he was a god in some way or he wasn't.
Sure, you mean like as a false god!Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,03:55)
But the bible says “Jehovah made” him a god to Pharoah. So he was in fact “a god” to Pharoah.
TO PHARAOH who was a Polytheist! Are you a Polytheist David? Do you believe there are other “true gods”, or do you believe YHWHs and Pauls words when they say…“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if there “ARE SO CALLED GODS”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Do you think Moses and Paul believed in other “gods”?
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,03:55)
How can you say he wasn't a god at all, when the Bible specifically says he was a god to Pharoah.
Argue with scriptures for Paul says they are so-called gods. Do you believe these so-called gods are “true gods” David?So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if there “ARE SO CALLED GODS”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,03:55)
Perhaps what you actually mean is, he wasn't a god, according to your idea of what that word means.Perhaps, it's time to expand your definition of what the word “god” can mean.
Because the Bible is clear: Jehovah made Moses a god to Pharoah.
What and become a Polytheist? Take note everyone, David believes like Pharaoh that Moses was “a god”.Yet YHWH says…
“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13
WJ
WJ, I'm only commented here on your first sentence in reply to what you falsely believed was my words, where you said:“Exactly! So you like Pharaoh believe Moses was “a god”!”
You said this, I believe because I said “To Pharaoh he was…”
I guess you think I was saying that. But, perhaps you noticed the quotation marks and the fact that I was making a point of you contradicting yourself.
It was you who said “To Pharaoh he was” a god.
I find it amusing how you say Pharaoh was no god at all, and then also say to Pharaoh he was a god.It was so confusing, even to you, perhaps, that you thought one of those ideas was mine. It really doesn't make sense to believe both, does it?
(See my next post to you, I found the quote.)
Thinker, as you may have noticed, I've pretty much been ignoring your comments until today.
Now that I've read them, I'm sorry, I should have corrected you a while back, because you seem to have devoted many pages to attacking something I do not even believe.
I'm sorry I wasted your time and you put so much work into that.
david.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,19:05) Hi David Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,02:51) –So, we know Moses wasn't a “false god” right?
–Jehovah made him a god to Pharoah.
———————————————-What does that mean?
Does it mean Jehovah made Pharoah worship him? (We've established now, that the word “god” does not necessarily involve “worship.”)
Or does it mean that Jehovah made him a “mighty one” in comparison to Pharoah?No. Moses was not a god at all. To Pharaoh he was and thats it.
Just like men have made “Idols” or false gods out of men today.
They are not gods at all are they David?
But apparantly you insist on being a Polytheist, and it is because of your Arian faith that cannot see that Jesus is “True God” with a big “G” with all authority and power in his hands!
David, what do you think of YHWHs and Pauls words here…
“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if there “ARE SO CALLED GODS”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Do you think Moses and Paul believed in other “gods”?
WJ
WJ, this took forever to find. I was beginning to wonder where I got that quote from–you saying:“No. Moses was not a god at all. To Pharaoh he was and thats it.“
Here, you say Moses as “not a god AT ALL.”
But, the very next thing you say is: “To Pharaoh he was [a god] and that's it.”Which is it?
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 06 2009,15:30) Mandy………..Sometimes we get caught up in what man says, and begin to focus on Mans thoughts from (there) understanding and it can become confusing, But The (Spirit of Truth) is in the mind of the person who has (it) and what he or she hears or reads is run by that filter that is in you. Notice “For the Spirit Both defends us (AND) accuses us, you see it is the director of truth in the person who has it. Even the unconverted can speak truth as well as untruth, in fact they are mingled with both, but the (HOLY SPIRIT) or HOLY INTELLECT, discloses it to us in our minds because (IT) is the Spirit (intellect) of truth and those who have it (CAN NOT ) BE DECEIVED, NO MATTER WHAT THEY READ OR HEAR, BECAUSE THE SPIRIT (intellect of truth) is guiding them. Some times we need to pray and ask GOD for more Spirit. Jesus said He would give more to us. WE need to trust in GOD and (NO) MAN, except Jesus our lord who speaks to us the (FATHERS) Words. Your questioning of what is said is a sign of Spirit (intellect) Mandy. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Thanks, bro.You could put a dozen Spirit-filled Christians in one room, have them read a passage of scriputre, have them pray and be led by the Spirit………chances are there would be several different views of the passage (even opposing views). How does this happen if there is one truth, and one Spirit?
Love,
MandyQuote (princess of the king @ Sep. 06 2009,14:10) Quote Yet we all possess different “truths” by the same Spirit. No Beloved Mandy there is not different truths by the same spirit, there cannot be. There is only one truth. We all come to a time in our walk where we question and ponder on what others have to say and what we feel or believe.
Sometimes when we are in need of milk, we try to eat meat, and vise/versa, take your alone time little one with just you and Christ, read scritptures and pray for understanding, no one will be able to teach you and explain better then the set apart spirit, ask, seek it will be given, remember he is your father, if you ask for fish, he will not give you a stone, He loves you, and all his chosen love you too.
Take care and take prayer
Hi Princess,There is only one truth, huh? Hmmmm. I know that is what the bible teaches and as a Christian we are supposed to subscribe to that belief system.
So why are there so many brands of Christianity born out of the one foundation of truth – the bible?
Thanks,
MandyQuote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 06 2009,13:08) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 06 2009,12:09) TO ALL:
The first Christians were being changed from the image of Moses to the image of Christ.2 Corinthians 3:7-18:
Quote
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.Observations:
1. The ministry of Moses was the ministry OF DEATH, vs. 7
2. The glory of Moses was a glory that was PASSING AWAY, vs. 7
3. The ministry of righteousness (Christ) EXCEEDS MUCH MORE IN GLORY, vs. 9
4. The temporal glory of Moses was being replaced by Christ's ENDURING GLORY WHICH WAS BETTER, vs. 11
5. Those who cling to the glory of Moses have a VEIL ON THEIR HEARTS, vs. 15
6. When one turns to Christ the VEIL IS TAKEN AWAY, vs. 16
7. When the veil is taken away from a man's heart that man is transformed from the image of Moses TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST, vs. 18Conclusion: The glory of Christ is superior to the glory of Moses.
thinker
Yes indeed!Moses was given the law, which just condemened, this law is referred in the passage as the ministry of death.
Jesus was given the Spirit, which produced righteousness and is thus known as the ministry of righteousness.
Man cannot follow the law, he needs the Spirit of the Father in order to be righteous. Recieving the Spirit as Jesus did, we will be like him!
Hi Jodi,Amen! I am glad we agree on something.
Did you notice that it says that the glory of Jesus is greater than the glory of Moses? David reduces Jesus to the level of Moses.thinker
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 06 2009,14:31) Quote (david @ Sep. 06 2009,10:23) I googled “the only true.” “WATER POLO, THE ONLY TRUE COMPETATIVE SPORT.”
When the person said this, they in no way meant that every other sport was a false sport.
They meant….I know you know this….
Their meaning was that Water polo was the most competative or water polo is competative to the ultimate degree.
NOT that every other sport is false.
Some people can't see it david because they don't want to see it.
t8,
When was it that Christ said to the Father “You are the only true God.” Answer: He said it BEFORE He was exalted to the Father's right hand again. Jesus gave up His rights as God for real. Thus He called His Father “the only true God.”But the story goes on…. The Father exalted Him to His right hand again and said to Him “Your throne O God is forever and ever” (Hebrews 1:8). So by your logic the Father does not see it because He does not want to see it.
Why is it that you believe Jesus and not the Father who you say is greater? You cannot prove your Arian theology from statements Jesus made BEFORE His exaltation. If Arians are going to win the argument they must show that Jesus in His exalted position is less than the Father. You guys have failed to prove it.
thinker
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