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For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.1 Cor.8:9
When was he rich?
I believe it was when he was in heaven with his Father and shared his glory.He became poor when, to enrich us and save us, he took over our humanity.
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.This is what i believe
To all……Jesus did not prexist his birth on this earth. The complete concept of a preexisting Son of Man, “Jesus”, is the biggest “lie” Ever fabricated. It completely destory’s , the work of God the Father “IN” mankind.
Common sense should tell anyone there would be no reason for God the Father to take a eternal existing being, and put him in a flesh body, in the womb of a human women. Common sense should also tell you, what would the prove to mankind? NOTHING! , WHAT WOULD that show the human race NOTHING!
YOUR false image of Jesus, is this , a “perfect” sinless being , was put in a human body and didn’t sin. And God killed him for the sin of the human race, who are not “truly” like him in the first place. Was God pulling a “con job” on us? According to what you people teach he was. Can anyone tell me what purpose God would have in doing that? What would it prove to mankind?
How would that make me or any human being “perfect”? It wouldn’t !
But if God took a ““real human “from” humanity”, Like Jesus was , and Put his “holy” Spirit on him, and that “MAN” then was able to walk “perfect” without any Sin, that would really prove a point to all humanity.
Jesus was our example of what it takes to be “perfect” and kept that way, it was through the “Holy Spirit” of God, his Father and Our Father, his God and our God. There is not one ounce of difference between Jesus and all the rest of humanity in the way he began his “only” life he ever had as a human being , and was perfected as a human being, to walk perfectly with God, because God the Father was “IN” him when he was born again by being anointed with the Holy Spirit, exactly as we have to be. The only exception was that God the Father took the DNA of King David and put it in the womb of Mary, bringing forth a second “ADAM” another human exactly like us, born of a women exactly as we are. No difference except it was God the Father that impregnated the women , not another human being that did. But that changed nothing as to him being any different the we are, as a human being goes.
We must be born again “exactly” as the man Jesus was, from above, or we will never enter the kingdom of God. The “seed” of the Father must be “in” you which is the Spirit of God the Father, the “only” true God.
If you have not the Spirit you simply are none of his. Jesus said he was the root and offspring of David , a human being, not a preexisting demigod of somekind, no, a real human who came into his “only ” true existence ever as a human being, and will return to rule this earth as a real human being also. According to scripture.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene…..oh how far off you are
It is you who follow the Father of lies. Jesus came down from Heaven to do the will of his Father (John 6)
He was with HIM in glory on his throne. (John 17) And he was God (John 1: 1)
And THE WORD was made flesh (John 1:14)
You see the bible helps us to unmask false teachings.Common sense should tell anyone there would be no reason for God the Father to take a eternal existing being, and put him in a flesh body, in the womb of a human women. Common sense should also tell you, what would the prove to mankind? NOTHING! , WHAT WOULD that show the human race NOTHING!
Common sense should also tell you that sacrificing an animal shouldn’t cover sins temporarily.
But when you understand atonement for sin, then you understand that God spared no expense by sacrificing his only begotten to save us. He paid the highest price possible. He didn’t whip up a man rooted in Adam to die for us and save millions or billions. No he sent the one by whom he created the universe through. Makes sense that the same person is the one by whom God saves us too. He was before the cosmos, and through him he is able to save creation. Behold all things have become new.
Proclaimer….. “by man sin intered the world” and by “Man” it is atoned for. Rom 5: 15, shows it was by one “man” , we recieved the grace of God, it dosen’t say by one preexisting being of some kind we are saved, please show us where that is written in our scriptures anywhere, That God morphed a eternal preexisting being into a man, and made him die for us all.
Tell me Proclaimer, does it sound like a “preexisting” created being, that was crying out, “my God, my God, have you forsaken me? That doesn’t sound like someone who experienced death of his past existence and reborn again before, now does it?
What Jodi and I are telling you people is the whole truth, Rather you people understand that or not , dosen’t change anything.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Proclaimer….. “by man sin intered the world” and by “Man” it is atoned for. Rom 5: 15, shows it was by one “man” , we recieved the grace of God,
That’s why he came in the flesh. He became the new Adam.
Proclaimer……We all came in the flesh, except Adam and Eve. How does taking a preexisting being and killing him and cause he to be born through the flesh womb of a women, equate to a “actual” Idenity with mankind?, truth is it dosen’t equal to true humanity at all. A preexistence would being giving Jesus a advantage, from his past knowledge, he would not be truthfully “only” a true human being “exactly” as we are.
That is what you people teach, you teach a preexisting God, Angel, or what ever , but Jesus never taught of any past existence, not one reference to a past relationship with God. When he spoke of his relationship with God the Father it was always in the ““present and future tense” . Haven’t you ever noticed that.
Using the scripture like, “the glory I had with you before the foundations of the earth”, as a proof is no proof at all , because he was talking about a “prophesied ” glory giving him, written in prophesy that was to be his, and Jesus fully understood that.
Scripture that say he endured the suffering for the Glory that should be revealed in him. Heb 2:9., Heb 12: 2, Rom 8: 18,
All that Glory was prophesied to happen to Jesus , from the foundations of the earth, it was in the plan and Will of God , before Jesus was ever born on this earth, Jesus did not ever have that Glory until he was resurected from the Grave, and now has it. He did not preexist with that Glory before his birth and resurection on this earth, as you people falsely teach.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
COLOSSIANS 2:8,9
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN BEING FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
We all came in the flesh, except Adam and Eve. How does taking a preexisting being and killing him and cause he to be born through the flesh womb of a women
Is that why it says in scripture that all the prophets, kings, and others came in the flesh in scripture? Oh wait, it doesn’t say that. Only Jesus Christ.
Is that why it says that when Believers die, they will be in the glory they had with the Father before the universe? Oh wait, it doesn’t say that.
Is that why it says in scripture that God made the universe through us and me? Oh wait, it doesn’t say that.
Proclaimer…..The new testament is about God’s work in mankind, with Jesus being the first fruits, of them that sleep, the first of “many brothers”, to be raised and give eternal life. Not be given ” back” eternal life, as you false teachers preach.
The New Testament teaches us how to have a right relationship with The “ONE” AND “ONLY” , TRUE GOD, it is the exact same as his , the “MAN” JESUS.
peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Jodi
You sweep away with your hand the texts which support the pre-existence and the divinity of the Son of God …
This has been demonstrated many times on this forum by many participants … but you ignore it.Hi Jodi, you can not escape from those NT scriptures which made man Jesus as divine and preexistence being. I appreciate the arguments put forth by brother Gene and yours here supporting the real human Messiah Jesus but the NT writers like Paul, Luke, Matthew, Mark etc created enirely new religion which is quite strange when compared to the religion of Hebrew Bible. The jewish messiah was never meant more than a human being born to human parents and never meant a divine being who could share God’s glory. He was not meant as co-creator with God. Please read NT writings in the light of Hebrew Bible without any bias you will realise that the NT writers have misquoted Hebrew scriptures and taken them out of their original context to suit their own agenda.
Adam…….I believe those writers were true believers, but the text was corrupted, by the translators who we’re ‘trinitarian. They used words that could be taken may different ways, like the Greek word “dia” For instance, that actual word means “for the purpose or reason of ” Jesus , as a representation of all humanity , it was God’s goal for all his human creation. Therefore God the Father made the physical worlds for that purpose.
Therefore to me it’s not so much the original writers themselves, because I believe they were true Christians, but the “trinitarian” translators who picked words that can be taken different ways who polluted their original texts.
That is why the apostle Paul, commend the Bereans saying they were more Noble then those in Thesslinica because the searched the scriptures to see if what they were hearing was true or not. Much of all these false teachings can be weeded out if we would all follow that rule , and remember the only scriptures they had was the Old Testament, writings, at that time.
I try to apply that principle and when there appears a contradiction between the old and the new, most all the time it is in the New Testament and the Greek wording the translators used , words like “dia”. Which can be taken in several different ways, And understanding the trinitarian were the ones who translated them, they used their ability to force the text by using the Greek wording to their advantage in misrepresenting the truth of God , I hold anything copied by trinitarian translators as suspect of false teachings, especially if it contradicts the Old Testament scriptures.
Jesus plainly say scripture can not be broken, and he was clearly speaking of the Old Testament writings, BECAUSE the New Testament hadn’t even been written yet.
IMOAdam, have you noticed how much of the Old Testament Jodi uses to prove her points, she meticulously uses those scriptures in her presentations. She does exactly what the Apostle Paul said the Bereans were doing.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Hello brother Gene thanks for your lengthy post pointing to me. You said;
I try to apply that principle and when there appears a contradiction between the old and the new, most all the time it is in the New Testament and the Greek wording the translators used , words like “dia”. Which can be taken in several different ways, And understanding the trinitarian were the ones who translated them, they used their ability to force the text by using the Greek wording to their advantage in misrepresenting the truth of God , I hold anything copied by trinitarian translators as suspect of false teachings, especially if it contradicts the Old Testament scriptures.
In fact I too tried to apply such principle and logics earlier to understand on the nature of Jesus and on the God of the NT. But there is no end for such logics because the NT writers in fact kept Jesus as the centre of their theology rather it is Christology who somehow involved in God’s creation and salvation process which is very much strange if we read into the concept of God in the Hebrew Bible. You can not nullify the verses in the NT which talk about Jesus’ preexistence, sharing divinity with God, involved in God’s creation process. Even if you take Greek word ‘Dia’ as quoted by you for Jesus that does not nullify the Jesus being the co-creator with God as per NT. There are number of such verses available in the NT which repeatedly talk about Jesus’ role in God’s creation process and salvation process which is a new theology altogether when compared to Jewish religion.
This is where I find it very difficult to hormonize the NT scriptures with those of Hebrew Bible.
Hi Gadam
This is where I find it very difficult to hormonize the NT scriptures with those of Hebrew Bible.
Yet Genesis says
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
[7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.Berean…..dose it say “let us “Jesus Christ “, make man in our image”?
or are you simply forcing the text to say that by adding words that are not there? See that’s the point to all this confusion that exists here, people are adding to our texts there own opinions .There “seven spirits of God”, which go throughout the earth, what makes you think he was not speaking of them?
peace and love to you and yours and……..gene
Gene
The Only Person who is with God in the beginning is the SON OF GOD (JOHN1 / GENESIS1)
IN RELATION TO THE SEVEN SPIRITS, THE BIBLE SAYS IN EPHESIANS 4 THAT THERE IS ONE SPIRIT OF GOD
DISPENSED DURING THE 7. TIMES OF THE CHURCH (BEGINNING TO END) (REVELATION 5: 6)
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And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God feels forth into all the earth.Berean……The seven Spirits “of” God are what God used to create everything he created, they are what composes the very mind of God, they are what gives life to his whole creation, the are all present in them in one way or another, “for the hidden attributes of God are seen by the things that are “CREATED”, that is what gives the man Jesus Christ the understanding that he needs to judge properly. He doesn’t judge according to his own hearing or seeing mind, but according to the seven spirits of God. That is why he says in revelations to the churches, “hear what the spirit is saying to the churches”, not what “HE” IS SAYING. Jesus is a “human” being existing with the seven spirits of God “in” him that way he said , “the father is “IN” me” , God the father is “IN” Jesus reconciling the whole world unto “HIMSELF “, GET IT? THAT GOD MAY BE “IN” ALL AND “THROUGH” ALL”.
The son of “man”, Jesus was not and is not, the God that was “IN” him.
peace and love to you and yours………..gene
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