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Hi WW,
Jesus was created in the womb of Mary?
You say his creation was his being born from above?
Scripture says he was conceived. Why did would you add these ideas to scripture?
Hi Gene
Here a link on Gnostics:
http://www.humanreligions.info/gnosticism.html#Adoptionism
I hope this helps on what I was saying about Gnostics.
God bless Gene
Hi Nick,
You’ve apparently established nothing about my beliefs, not sure how you deduced 1-4 at all. Jesus is a man just like us, our brother, but not born in the same way from the human male sperm. Mary a female woman gave birth to a male Jesus just as the scripture states. We can and do follow him and can do the works that he does (John 14:12). This is scripture, which is what I believe.
This comes directly from the Word of God, and science. There was no existing sperm in Mary, so it had to be created. Jesus is the only begotten of God (mono & genes = only one & to come in to being, of God). We know from the rest of scripture God is not a human with flesh and a penis, so he didn’t have sex with Mary, but created that which didn’t exist. God had required a blood sacrifice/covering since Adam. Jesus was born from the royal lineage on Mary’s side, but the paternal from God, thus making him the capable sacrifice/savior because his blood was untainted. Blood is not passed through the female mother but through the male sperm, I’ll let you Google it.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (Conceive is the combination of sun & lambano = together with, & to literally take or receive into manifestation)
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? (To “know” a man, Biblically, is to have sex to the point of conception, Gen 4:1,17)
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Overshadow is a combination of epi & skia = upon & shade. Strongs says – to invest with preternatural influence).Mat 1:18 Now the birth (birth = gennesis, get the word genetics from, beginning of) of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.God sent Jesus. It’s that simple.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Hi Gene this may help with what I was saying about Gnostics:
“The very first Christians, the Ebionites7, Nazorenes, Gnostic Christians and others, were all adoptionists. In accordance with the first hundred years of Christian belief and with the oldest manuscripts of the Bible, Jesus was born in a normal way like the rest of us, to his parents, Joseph and Mary, from the line of David as prophesized (Matt. 1:1,9:27, Luke 1:32, John 7:41-3, Acts 13:23, 2 Tim. 2:8, Rev. 5:5 and 22:16). Jesus kept God’s laws so well that on his baptism, God adopted him as his son (as per Matt. 3:16, Mark 1:9-10 and Luke 3:22. In older manuscripts Luke 3:22 quotes Psalm 2:7: “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”), and sent him to the cross as a truly innocent, perfect sacrifice, to atone for the sins of all mankind, to fulfil promises made in the Jewish scriptures. God signalled to the world that this sacrifice had been accepted by raising Jesus from the dead and raising him up directly into heaven. The doctrine of the Virgin Birth, so popular amongst Roman mystery religions and paganism at the time, was never accepted by adoptionists8. It was only hundreds of years later when the concept of the Trinity was codified by the Pauline/Cappadocian Christians that adoptionist beliefs became condemned; yet, it represented the truer and original form of Christian belief.
This is a quote from the link I send you.
God bless Gene
Anthony….that is not the Gnostic’s view at the time of the apostles John and Paul. They as you are mixing up the modern gnostic, view with the original views. They are completely different.
The origibal gnostic views were
1….Jesus was always a GOD
2….He was sent forth from the “PLORA’ of the GOD’S to straighten out what the God Demurage created screw up.
3….He never was a real human being, he was just desguised as one. But really not one.
4….Therefore they reasoned, he had no need for any baptizm to recieve God’s spirit because he was already God.
5 THEY WERE ANTICHRISTS, (against baptizm of Jesus), because they did not believe that Jesus was a flesh and blood human, and believed Jesus was no baptized to recieve the HOLY SPIRIT from another GOD.
I don’t know your sources but they are completely wrong concerning the “original” gnostic teachings. You can prove that easely, by searching the internet, they left the church and started their own form of christanity which eventually took over the church. Go read 2 Ths2…that falling away from the truth, was the teachings of the gnostic’s, it turned Jesus into a GOD, and casued the decieved to worship him as such, Jesus is the “only” human who has ever taken his seat in the temple of GOD, and is being desplayed AND WORSHIPED as a GOD. This false “Image” of Jesus is what creats the man of sin, and this false image or “LIE” will be abolished by Jesus himself, out of his own mouth at his return. Just as 2Ths 2 says.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hey thanks Anthony! God Bless. The Word of God fits together wonderfully once some of the preconceived mysticism is removed from it (guilty here).
To you and Gene, might I recommend a book, if you haven’t already read it, by Robert Rubenstein called “When Jesus Became God”. It’s an excellent page turner. I have not fact checked, but a good read none the less.
https://www.amazon.com/When-Jesus-Became-God-Christianity/dp/0156013150
Heaven Net should really add @mentions, likes, and links back to the last convo. in this forum, kind of a pain. Maybe I’m just doing something wrong.
Hi WW,
The author exposes the follies of traditional Christianity by comparing their ideas of a man being God with similar Pagan mythologies. The misunderstood book of John, in which they say that Jesus claimed to be God, is discussed in this worldly view.
All of this nonsense is resolved when it is known that God was in Christ and spoke directly through him.
WW….yes i have rwad that book, very good book, brings out a lot of thruths.
I agree with your post brother, i sure Nick and JODI does also.
Peace and love to you and yours. …gene
ego eimi (Ancient Greek: ἐγώ εἰμί Greek pronunciation: [eɡɔ̌ː eːmí]) “I am”, “I exist”, is the first person singular present tense of the verb “to be” in ancient Greek.
Before Abraham, Jesus claimed existence by saying “I am”.
When we talk of ego we talk of self. So an egotistical person is one who believes they are self important.
Hi T8,
You are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham?
…
Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
You keep poor company and seem to hate your brothers
Couldn’t care what the Pharisees thought. I believe in Jesus, the one born the Christ.
He said, ‘ego eimi’ so don’t blame me. As a follower of him, it should come as no surprise that I believe his words and claims. It seems the Jesus you teach did not say this and nor was he born the Christ. Another Jesus? Some food for thought.
As for the hate accusations. I can tell you now that it is love to warn people of things. Hate can show itself as letting a person walk toward destruction.
If I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ but you do not speak out to dissuade him from his way, then that wicked man will die in his iniquity, yet I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you warn the wicked man to turn from his way, and he does not turn from it, he will die in his iniquity, but you will have saved your life.
Heaven Net is about testing all things. It is about refuting and correcting the wrong and praising the right. If this is hate to you, then why do you participate in a forum of hate because this forum tests all things? Time to move to a forum of love perhaps. Where everyone agrees with you and everyone else. A sort of all encompassing paradise for differing views.
Hi Nick,
Jesus is the only begotten of God (mono & genes = only one & to come in to being, of God). We know from the rest of scripture God is not a human with flesh and a penis, so he didn’t have sex with Mary, but created that which didn’t exist. God had required a blood sacrifice/covering since Adam. Jesus was born from the royal lineage on Mary’s side, but the paternal from God, thus making him the capable sacrifice/savior because his blood was untainted. Blood is not passed through the female mother but through the male sperm, I’ll let you Google it.
Hi The Word’s Watchman,
It’s Good to agree!
_______________
Your brother
in Christ
Ed JHi Ed,
The man Jesus, was conceived of Mary, born of woman, born under the law.
We can follow this anointed overcomer.
Hi T8,
You are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham?
Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
You keep poor company and seem to hate your brothersHi Nick.
Truth can seem like hate to people on the wrong side of it, I agree. But it is not hate, rather it is love that warns people when they err. But here is the irony:
It seems you are the one throwing the same stones, except at people who believe Jesus and his claims. And by doing so, you are throwing these same stones at Jesus himself. Firstly because we merely repeat the words of the shepherd and are accused of false teaching because of this, and second, whatever you do unto one of his sheep you do unto him. But get this:
I am not throwing any stones. I accept that he was before Abraham as he clearly said.
We say that Jesus said: “Before Abraham, I am”. We agree. And now you are the one to throw stones. So the accusation that we are in company with the Pharisees doesn’t add up. Time to rethink your doctrine Nick. Time is short for all of us and time is God’s grace to us. We can change in a short amount of time.
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