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Hi WW,
Was Jesus conceived of Mary?
Was Jesus not a son of Adam(man)?
Luke 3.38
..the son of Adam, the son of God.
Hi WW,
The second Adam was born of a woman.
Gal 4.4
But when the fullness of the time came God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law.
Jb 25.4
How can a man be just with God ? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?
Religion would offer us a godman but we follow one who had a difficult path to walk.
Hi Gene this may help : you said, before Abraham was, would be like you being in line before me that it’s doesn’t mean ” be born before Him (Abraham).
Anthony. …saying i am before a person is not the same as saying i was “born” before that person. If we were in a line and i was in front of you could not i say, before Anthony i am, that would have nothing to do with me being born before you now would it. In fact, if i were to reference a berth i would say i was “born” before you, so would have Jesus if that were what he was talking about.
Hi Gene
John 8:58, NIV: “Very truly I tell you,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!'”
John 8:58, ESV: “Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.””
John 8:58, KJV: “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:58, NASB: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'”
John 8:58, NLT: “Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!'”
John 8:58, CSB: “Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.””
Hi Gene
This may help. In Koine Greek, thus some interpret it, as Jesus’ own self-declaration as God. In John 8:24 Jesus states: “For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins”, and later the crowd attempts to stone Jesus in response to his statement in John 8:58: “Before Abraham was, I am.”. Many other translations including the ASV have rendered John 8:24 as something like “… For unless you believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins ” this is the same words “I am” He told Moses to tell them who send him. Jesus Christ was telling the Jews in John 8:58. God bless
Hi Gene
In its extent, the preposition “before” reaches back into the past without end or limit, and so “Before Abraham was, [εγω ειμι]” clearly need not mean “after Adam,” just as “before the Morning Star” need not mean “after the angels.” But when He said “before [πριν],” He intended, not that He was included in any one’s existence, but that all things are included in His, God bless I hope that help.
Gene I can’t help it if scriptures say that. But as far as The only begotten Son (Jesus Christ) I believe as for now that he Had a beginning . I can’t see what the Trinity doctorine says as far as eternal generation or eternal Sonship. I believe He was begotten of the Father before all ages or the foundation of the world. I believe that He come out of the Father. I just wanted to make that clear with you and I don’t believe that the Holy Spirit is a person I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and His Son. I just wanted to make that clear to you you keep saying that I’m a Trinitarian. Well God bless
Hi Gene ypu keep on trying to correct me on the gnostic. Gnostic: Docetists said that the flesh and the divine cannot mix, therefore Jesus was truly God but only in the form of a human being. Gnosticism offered two traditional answers to the question . . . Adoptionist Gnostics said Jesus was a regular man, but when he was baptized by John a divine power descended on him and he was “adopted” as the Son of God. And Valentinian Gnostics accepted the idea of Jesus being truly human and truly divine, but argued that there were actually two persons residing in the same body, a human person and a divine person . . . and when Jesus died it was only his physical nature that was crucified, while his divine person lived on.you can search that out for yourself if you want. Don’t take my word. We need to search things out for ourselves. God bless Gene.
Anthony. ..your mixing up the GNOSTIC’S OF TODAY, WITH THE GNOSTIC’S OF THE APOSTLES DAY, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GROUPS AND THERE BELIFS. I have studied in depth about the gnostics of the apostles day and there teachings are completely different then those of today,
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Hi Gene what would it even matter what the dating is, the fact is you believe in Jesus Christ just like some of them did.
Gnosticism offered two traditional answers to the question . . . (Jesus Christ) Adoptionist Gnostics said Jesus was a regular man, but when he was baptized by John a divine power descended on him and he was “adopted” as the Son of God.
ANTHONY, I NEVER SAID Jesus is a GOD, I have been arguing aganst that for over 50 yars now, i do not believe Jesus is a God and preexisted at all nor do ibelieve he was just desguised as a human ast h e taught. No if any fit their beliefs here it you, because you as they believe Jesus came fromthe pelora as a GOD OR A DEMIGOD OF SOME KIND, i never even remotely implied any such thing.
You’ve got your wires crossed, i have no belifs that in anyway connect with the Gnostic’s of the time of Paul and John. Like i said you getting the two periods CROSSED UP. I have no idea what modern Gnostic’s preach nor do i even care to know. But i certainly know what they taught at the time of the apostles, i have made a very in depth study of them, and their teachings.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Hi Gene I don’t believe I said that I no you don’t. I’ll go back and check if I did I apologise for that if I did.. God bless Gene
Hi www that was a good post. The one on page 510 this one:
I can make this easy for anyone who can read. If one finds themselves having to be creative in explaining a supposed foundational truth while sacrificing the integrity of the scope of the Word, then one should definitely check their doctrine.
God bless Anthony
Anthony, the Gnostic’s at the time of Paul and John only had one view and that was that Jesus was a God sent from the pelora of the GOD’S. ALSO that he was only desguised as a manm but was really a GOD. THE denied his need to recieve the anointibg spirit, reasoning that he was already GOD, and so did not need to baptized and recieve the spirit of God as other human do.
Hence the apostle JOHN coined the phrase “ANTICHRIST’S , because they did not believe Jesus was a flesh and blood human, who came into his existence just as we do, and because they believed he was a preexisting God already he had no need to be anointed by a GOD.
THE WORD ANTICHRIST, simply means, ANTI-ANOINTING, not anti-Jesus, as most assume, because the Gnostic’s did believe in Jesus, but a different Jesus, the one that nearly all CHRISTENDOM believes in today.
The gnostic’s were in the true church, but as John said they went out from us, therefore proving they were not all of us, they started there own form of christanity, which eventually took over and became what is now christanity the apostate church was formibg even at the time of t h e apostles, just as PAUL AND John said, “for the iniquity does already exist”. Those apostles were fighting what now is the christian religion of this day.
2THS 2, is talking about the false (INAGE) of Jesus now preached, that turned the man Flesh man JESUS into a GOD, which turns the (IMAGE) of him into the “man of sin”, and because the apostate churches did not love the truth, about the real Jesus, GOD sent unto them a deluding spirit, in order for them to believe the “LIE”, what lie? , that JESUS was a GOD.
All who preach Jesus as a preexisting GOD OR DEMIGOD and worship him as such, are IDOLATERS, and are in the wide path of destruction that many go in threat, just as Jesus said.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Hi Nick
RE: Vine and Branches. We are more like Jesus as he’s our brother (Heb 2:11). Jesus is the first fruits to die no more (Rom 8:29-30). We will be “cultivated” when he returns. (1 Corn 15:23-24). God is the husbandman. Though, we are all united as one with God and with His Son Jesus Christ (John 17:11&21)
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
RE: Mary giving birth to Jesus.
Yes, Mary gave birth to Jesus. Point is, he is not born of a man, from man’s seed/semen. Life of the flesh is in the blood (Gen 9:4, Lev 17:11). We get our genetic make up from our fathers passed down through the blood. This is why we all die because the curse of death is passed to all, our blood is corrupted. Jesus didn’t get his blood from man, he only took part of flesh and blood, he took the flesh part (Heb 2:14). This makes him able to be the pure sacrifice. God is not a man, He is Spirit (John 4:24, Luke 24:39). Jesus was created in the womb of Mary by God, thus making him from above. Just like when a person gets born again, they are born from above; being born again = being born from above (John 3:3). Think of it this way, God’s Word is His Seed, His Son is His Seed, His Son is His Word, when that Word get’s in you and you believe, it grows and you are anointed with the Christ in you, the gift from the Holy Spirit which is holy spirit the God Breathed Word. (John 20:22, 2 Tim 3:16)
Hi WW,
So you have established some things about your beliefs.
1 Jesus was not a man like us. Despite being born of a woman and the verse in Jb 25 about that, he was born perfect.
2 Jesus was not conceived but somehow existed before Mary and took on flesh somehow. Mary was not his mother.
3 Jesus did not suffer temptation like us and did not need to be an overcomer like we do.
4 We cannot possibly follow him-he has a huge head start.
5 If these are your thoughts – they are scripturally wrong.
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