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Nick, one does get the impression that all are wrong unless they agree with you. You come across as a cult-leader wannabe. But no one seems to want to join your cult. Don’t give up your day job as they say. lol.
Hi t8,
We know you believe that Jesus always was the Word.
That is unscriptural because he was yet to be conceived in his mother’s womb.
You get him confused with the anointing Spirit of Christ.
Tradition is still your guide it seems.
Let go and listen to the Spirit.
Was Jesus of Nazareth anointed by God with the Spirit to do the work of the Father?
T8…Who hear has denied that Jesus was born and was destined to be a savior? He was born to be the Messiah, and was then anointed to actually be a Messiah. (Anointed one), you problem is you think he was already anointed at berth, which is wrong,not one scripture says that. Your only pushing that to fit you perceptions of a preexisting Jesus.
Question here should be, why are you so fearful of seeming Jesus as a fellow human being, “the first born of many brothers”. Your as busy as the TRINITAARIANS trying to move Jesus’ identity away from his fellow human being brothers and sisters. Be careful, You may windup sharing their same fate IMO
peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Hi Nick:
Hi 94,
The term
Lord of Hosts
always refers to the Father
(And so, then how are we understand the following scriptures in relation to him having seen the Father?)
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.who is the image of the invisibleGod, the firstborn of every creature;Therefore unto the King forever, immortal, invisible, the only wiseGod, be honour and glory for ever and ever. AmenLove in Christ,
MartyHi Nick:
We who are born again disciples of our Lord Jesus have seen God through the life of our Lord Jesus (John 14). According to the scriptures, God is invisible.
But Isaiah said that he saw God, and there are others it the OT who say that they saw God.
Isaiah 6:
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
Genesis 32:
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Nick:
And then there is the following scripture that is speaking of Jesus:
John 12:
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Hi 94,
Are you going to find scripture is broken or is the lack of understanding yours?
Isaiah saw his glory.
Marty….scripture say no mam can see God and live and also no man has seen God, are you saying scripture contradicts scripture, Jesus said God is spirit and you can’t seen spirit it like the wind. Perhaps these men relaized Gods spiritual presence or glory was there. You make a good point but I would have to go along with Nick and Jesus on this brother.
peace and love to you and yours…….gene
Hi Gene:
No, I am not saying that scripture contradicts itself, for that is impossible. I am just trying to understand the scripture. Isaiah said he had seen the “Lord of Hosts”, and Nick said that “Lord of Hosts” means “God”. And so, what did he see? He saw a vision perhaps of the Lord Jesus in his future glorified state.
If you have understanding of the vision, please share your knowledge with me.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
This is a VISION.
Isaiah 6
“… I saw the Lord sitting on a throne ,lofty and exalted..”
The Lord in the OT is the Lord God.
Jesus has been now appointed as Lord but he had yet to be conceived.
He did not preexist as another god with his own private throneroom and Angels.
Hi Nick:
This is a VISION.
Isaiah 6
“… I saw the Lord sitting on a throne ,lofty and exalted..”
The Lord in the OT is the Lord God.
(So, then did I Isaiah see God?)
I know what Isaiah said. He said that he had seen God. Jacob also said he had seen God face to face.
I know that Jesus did not pre-exist in some form before his birth into this world, but he was foreordained from the foundation of the world, and so, the vision could be a glimpse of what is to be in the future.
Hi 94,
Jn 12
‘..so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them’
These things Isaiah said because he saw His Glory and spoke of Him.
Isaiah did not speak of Jesus but the healing God of Israel.
Dear Marty,
The Bible says that people saw God and also that people can’t see God so don’t be intimidated by those who choose only one side.I know you see what St Jn 12 actually says.I’ve brought up this verse many times and those who can’t accept it have their ways of skirting around it and denying what it really says.John’s gospel teaches Christ is God or god as a divine being. And remember it was the church,whether Jewish or Christian that decided which books would be in the bible not God.
Most here don’t even accept the sovereignty of God over man’s affairs so to be consistent why should the 20th century doctrine of fundamentalism be easily accepted like so many do? disagreement over scripture and the interpretation thereof is ancient.
AndrewAD…..Yes the “CHRISTO’S” is God, who was “in” The man Jesus. But none of that ever made the man Jesus a GOD himself. No more then if the spirit of God was in you, would that make you a God either. You seem unable to seperates the Man Jesus from the anointing spirit or CHRISTO’S that was in him. If you truly believed what Jesus said you could clearly understand this. Remember what Jesus said, “why call me good, there is only one that is good and that is God”. Trying to make Jesus into a God is IDOLATRY. No one will be accepted by God the Father who does that. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Dear Gene,
So you are saying the Spirit of Christ is God and therefore preexisted? none are arguing here that the body of Christ preexisted. So when Isaiah had his epiphany he indeed saw Christ even as John 12 attests to correct?
Hi AndrewAD:
Dear Marty,
The Bible says that people saw God and also that people can’t see God so don’t be intimidated by those who choose only one side.I know you see what St Jn 12 actually says
(There are several occasions where people in the OT say that they saw God because God spoke through different appearances, but they did not actually see God in that “the scripture states that He is invisible”, God did speak to them, and they thought that they had seen Him. God is a Spirit. God was in Christ, but that does not make him God. The scripture states that He is the “express image of God’s person”. Isaiah said thought that he had seen God through the vision because God commissioned him for his ministry through the vision that he saw.)
At any rate, a person is defined by the life that he lives, therefore, Jesus stated that “he who has seen me has seen the Father”, speaking of the works that were done through him as he lived his life in obedience to the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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