Preexistence

[terraricca]

Kerwin

so you say i do not believe in the resurrection ,I never said that ,for i do believe in the resurrection but you seem not to believe in it ,for according to John , jesus was resurrected with his old body ,the one he died with ,this is why scriptures says that God will not leave his body to decay,

and also to prove to his disciples that he really did resurrected from the dead,

so you can take your false testimony to yourself

[GeneBalthrop]

Terraricca….Where did you ever get the idea i do not believe in a physical resurection of our bodies, i never said that nor have never implied it either, you falsely accused me of something i never said or implied. You seem to not care if you lie about what people say. I HAVE EVER SENSE I HAVE BEEN HERE, I have ARGUED FOR A ACTUAL PHYSICAL RESURECTION, and I FULL WELL “know” JESUS WAS RESURECTED WITH HIS PHYSICAL BODY. Where did you get your screwy idea i didn’t believe in it from?

Peace and love to you and yours………gene

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

Kerwin

so you say i do not believe in the resurrection ,I never said that ,for i do believe in the resurrection but you seem not to believe in it ,for according to John , jesus was resurrected with his old body ,the one he died with ,this is why scriptures says that God will not leave his body to decay,

and also to prove to his disciples that he really did resurrected from the dead,

so you can take your false testimony to yourself

I am not speaking of the letters of your words but rather as the spirit for you interpreted the words “resurrection” so that it means something other that what Scripture means by the same word.

Paul does not believe Jesus was raised with his old body for he states “buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father”. (Romans 6:4) In context it is even more clear that Jesus was raised up into his new life. In verse five he even uses the word “planted” even as he does the synomyn “sowed” in 1 Corinthians 15:36-38. Paul is not disagreeing with John.

According to you Jesus was not raised up into a new life but rather changed in a twinkling of an eye. Even though you viewpoint is flawed you hold to it because of how a misinterpretation of one passage has blinded you to the truth.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

You are able to tell Paul what he meant?

Paul knew that physical resurrection was not the goal for us but the new body is.

[terraricca]

Gene
1)Terricca…ROM 8:23, “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruit of the “SPIRIT”, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption,to wit, the redemption of “our BODY”.

So not only they (the deciples are wating) so are we waiting for that resurection that adoption that will witiness the redemption of “OUR BODIES”.

Peace and love to you and yours………gene
———————————————————–
2)Terricca….THE RESURECTION IS WHAT WILL WITTNESS THE REDEMPTION OF OUR “BODIES” just like it did for JESUS. Where did you ever get the idea i don’t believe in a resurection from, i have never said that.

You should at least have proof before you falsely accuse people, because that makes you a false accuser, is that not what the devil does?

peace and love to you and yours ………gene
=================================================
me answering; Gene

your answer told all ,that you don’t believe in the resurrection ,if not pay attention to the things you say

—————————————————————————
you say;
that resurection that adoption that will witiness the redemption of “OUR BODIES”.

tell me is the redemption really for our body ? scriptures ?

[kerwin]

Nick,

Hi KW,

You are able to tell Paul what he meant?

Paul knew that physical resurrection was not the goal for us but the new body is.

1) You ask me if I am able to tell Paul what he meant and then followup by telling Paul what he meant.
2) But to answer your question I understand English and it disagrees with your claim.
3) Listen long and be slow to answer.

Do you believe Christ was raised up from the dead to walk in the newness of life?

If you say yes then you agree with Paul but if you say no then you disagree with him.

If you answer yes you have another conflict to deal with due to Jesus’ claim he was flesh and bone after his resurrection. That conflict is between a combination of Paul’s claims and Jesus’ words and your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:50a.

It is easy enough to resolve by viewing the words of 1 Corinthians 15:50 symbolically instead of literally but stubbornness leads you not to do that. Instead you choose to disagree with Paul’s words.

In this translation Job agrees with Paul’s words that the resurrected body is flesh.

Job 19:26Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

26
and though after my skin worms destroy this body,
yet in my flesh shall I see God:

On the other hand there are those translators to make his words disagree.

Job 19:26American Standard Version (ASV)
26
[a]And after my skin, even this body, is destroyed,
Then without my flesh shall I see God;
Footnotes:

Job 19:26 Or, And after my skin hath been thus destroyed, Yet from my flesh shall I see God

And yet the same version translates the same word to “with my flesh” in another passage.

Job 19:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22
Why do ye persecute me as God,
And are not satisfied with my flesh?

So according to them the Greeks had a word that meant both “with my flesh” and “without my flesh”

As for this instance the AV of the KJV is consistent but are you?

Job 19:22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22
Why do ye persecute me as God,
and are not satisfied with my flesh?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

Should you search for confusion among the translators to justify your claims?

Jesus was raised as flesh and bone.

He stayed on earth for a time to encourage his brothers.

Then he was taken up into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom so we know he was changed just as we will be when we are lifted up.

 

[kerwin]

Nick,

There is no confusion in what I wrote. What confusion is introduced is introduced by those that lack faith in the truth.

I notice you failed to answer my direct question.

Is that because if you answered yes you would be in conflict with your chosen interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:50?

You could have answered no but that would have disagreed with what Paul literally stated.

I do not see you answering I do not know as that would be confessing a weakness.

But perhaps your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:50 is wrong and Weymouth New Testament and The International Standard Version is correct but for you to admit that is to confess a flaw. Are you willing to admit one?

International Standard Version
Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.

Weymouth New Testament
But this I tell you, brethren: our mortal bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor will what is perishable inherit what is imperishable.

There words do not disagree with those of other versions but instead they merely translate symbolic words to a more literal meaning.

[Ed J]

Ed

they are all been corrupt for all those men were corrupted one way or another ,

but not the message

Hi Pierre,

Then you are proclaiming Psalm 12:6-7 to be wrong.
Sorry Pierre, but once again I will go with
“Scripture” over ‘your opinion’

_______________
God bless
Ed J

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

You rely on apparent interpretation flaws to justify your dogmas?

Now the Lord is the Spirit.

Not flesh.

[kerwin]

Nick,

I accuse you of flawed interpretation and pointed out that others have chosen another path. There path agrees with Paul’s claim that Jesus was resurrected to the newness of life but yours does not.

Let us look at another passage of Scripture that claims that flesh will be saved on that day.

Matthew 24:22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

Either flesh is saved or it is not. If flesh does not enter the kingdom of God then it follows no flesh is saved.

Some claim flesh symbolizes humanity and others claim flesh and blood symbolizes mortality. Perhaps both are correct. I see no need to cherry pick unless they contradict Scripture.

In choosing to interpret 1 Corinthians 15:50 literally and Jesus’ words symbolically you make a choice that disagrees with the words of Paul in Romans 6.

Why do you stubbornly hold to what you know is false?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

You quote a scripture in Mt 24 about the residents of earth as if it relates to the Kingdom.

get real.

 

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

Romans 6.6

Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him, that OUR BODY MIGHT BE DONE AWAY WITH, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Do you not hope for a new body?

1Cor 15

[terraricca]

ED

Ps 12:5 “Because of the oppression of the weak
and the groaning of the needy,
I will now arise,” says the LORD.
“I will protect them from those who malign them.”
Ps 12:6 And the words of the LORD are flawless,
like silver refined in a furnace of clay,
purified seven times.

this is true for it tells of the coming of Christ and the words he would speak are flawless good scriptures

[kerwin]

Nick,

Hi KW,

You quote a scripture in Mt 24 about the residents of earth as if it relates to the Kingdom.

get real.

You need to take James advice in 1:19 and be slow to answer as it is evident you did consider your words. Don’t you believe that:

Matthew 24:29-31Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Personally, I believe you do know flesh will be saved to see Jesus descending in the clouds and that flesh will be changed from being mortal to being immortal for death and decay will no longer rule in the world to come.

[kerwin]

Nick,

What version of Romans 6:6 is that as I do not see it on biblehub and it is missing words that most if not all those versions have. The words are “of sin” though it is only one word in Koine Greek.

Here is a sample:

Berean Literal Bible
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, so that the body of sin might be annulled, that we are no longer enslaved to sin.

New American Standard Bible
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

King James Bible
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that sin’s dominion over the body may be abolished, so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin,

International Standard Version
We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.

NET Bible
We know that our old man was crucified with him so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we know that our old person was crucified with him, that the body of sin would be destroyed, that we shall not again serve sin.

Consider this question:

Does a human body die when they are immersed in Jesus Christ?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

NASB

We have passed over from death to life[jn5]

But the body still lives till the plan of God is fulfilled and we sleep.

[kerwin]

Nick,

This is what the NASB edition I have states.

Romans 6:6New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 knowing this, that our old [a]self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Footnotes:

Romans 6:6 Gr anthropos
Romans 6:6 Or made powerless

John 5 is speaking of passing from destruction to eternal life.

“made powerless” is probably the correct translation but practicalities leave us with “done away”.

Romans 6:6 is speaking of sin in the flesh being rendered powerless by walking according to the Spirit.

Body of flesh = sin in the flesh

It does not conflict with the idea that Jesus was raised from his grave to a new life just like Paul stated the body of the mustard that is planted is not the one that raises from the ground.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

Now the Lord is the Spirit.

Let go of the old.

 

We now no longer speak of Jesus Christ according to the flesh.

[Ed J]

Hi KW,

Romans 6.6

Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him, that OUR BODY MIGHT BE DONE AWAY WITH, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Do you not hope for a new body?

1Cor 15

Hi Nick,

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Romans 6:6-7)

Our body’s are not body’s of sin, it is instead the mind of the old man that is the body of sin.

Read the “AKJV Bible” and you will have far less misunderstandings

________________
God bless
Ed J

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