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Richard,
Mikeboll64 did not believe that Jesus was God though he did believe he preexisted.
Scripture actually states that Jesus humanity originated from Adam, who was himself created from God. (Matthew 1:1-16)
It also states that God gave him his Spirit (Matthew 12:18) which is the Spirit of adoption. (Romans 8:15)The idea that Jesus is God is based on misunderstanding of the use of the original language, ancient interpretation methods, and/or the unity of the Spirit. It is a broken teaching which even more broken teachings are used to support. To believe it a person must suspend disbelief and that is not faith.
Preexistence is in contradiction that he was conceived of Mary. It also contradicts the idea he was made of a woman and under the Law.
The idea he was incarnated ignores the fact humans in general are incarnated. In short it essentially claims his soul and spirit were incarnated into a human body. He is not God wearing humanity as clothing as then he would not be human as Scripture claims. As I stated earlier, believe Jesus is God is a teaching full of breaks.
Richard of Decatur……what KERWIN AND NICK are saying is true brother, the teaching that JESUS PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH IS A FALSE TEACHING, AS WELL AS HIM BEING A GOD. Jesus is and always was one of us brother, he is the first from humanity to make it into the kingdom of GOD, AND TBE FIRST FROM MANKIND TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE.
I know this may be hard for you to except, because of all the false teachings that Christendom has taught over the years. Please go and read the post i posted about, THE “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION”, it may shed some light on this for you brother.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Richard,
“My Lord and my God!”
It is a statement of belief and response to Jesus’ question.
It is used like “Yawheh is God” but the conjunction complicates it by rendering the words vague if not taken in the correct written and unwritten context.It can refer to two different individuals or one individual. If it refers to two individuals then it is both Jesus and God but if it is one individual it can be either Jesus or God.
Jews, like Thomas, believe that that the Messiah is a human being and not God himself. The Gentiles had their emperor cults and so believed the King of all things is a God. According to the Jewish belief Thomas was either speaking to both Jesus and God, speaking to God alone, or using God to mean godlike as is done in John 10:35.
I favor the idea the Thomas was Speaking God with both titles as is an expression of faith.
Hi Richard,
Emmanuel- God with us
Yahshua- God saves.
Do not confuse the vessel with the treasure within.
2cor 4.7
2 tim.2.20f
Richrd of Decatur……Thomas finely came to the point of understanding what JESUS was saying all along, that the FATHER (GOD) was “IN” him, thelight finely came on a he finely got it, GOD THE FATHER WAS PRESENT “IN” JESUS, SO HE SAID ,”MY lord (adoni a human ruler, Jesus) “AND” MY God, Both were present there . IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Richard,
The Word is not God.
The Word was God.
As the Word said through the vessel
‘I proceeded forth and came from the Father’
Hi Richard,
Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
Jesus of Nazareth was not the Word.
At the Jordan the Word was made flesh.
We no longer speak of him according to the flesh.
Now the lord is the Spirit.
Richard,
I have some technical difference of opinions with Gene and Nick on these issue but they seem to no tangible difference so I will express my understanding of John 1:1-14.
The word that comes out of God mouth and that is not a person was incarnated in the humanity of Jesus of Nazarene. He was conceived like other humans though the technicalities were different. He was born in Bethlehem and immersed by his priest cousin at the Jordon. Being anointed to preach the gospel and do good he did so until he was charged, found guilty, and condemned to death for a false crime. As a result of politics the Roman Empire agreed to executed him though they knew he was innocent and they preceded to do so. Jesus chose not to call on the legions of heaven to rescue himself but instead in his mercy sacrificed himself for the world. He was raised from the dead by the power of the Spirit of righteousness God gave him and in response God gave him the kingdom of all things in heaven in earth despite Jesus being a human. All this has been being done that the glory of God would be revealed for humanity to see.
It is the Word that comes out of God’s mouth that comes from above and by it God glory is revealed in ordinary human beings. Of them Jesus the Anointed is the greatest, just among the Spiritual children of God.
Fellows: There is no need to waste your time trying to convince me of something you think you know and understand. I have stated my case simply by calling your attention to 3 scriptures that I believe are clear and understandable. Enough said and written.
Nick, I am the son of my father as well as my mother. If I stated that I am the son of my father that does not make me a liar because I did not say I was also the son of my mother at the same time. There are many things about myself that I might not say but that does not make me a liar because I do not tell about them as well. Hope you get my meaning.
Mike, if what Kerwin said is true about what you believe, I guess I missed it as the comment you wrote that I read seemed to be close to what I believe but I guess I was wrong and you are more in line with the rest of this group than with what I believe.
I am trying not to get personal, impute motives, or try to reason further with you all about this issue. I will pray for you all.
If anyone wants to comment in support of what I have written, I would love to hear from you.
To the rest, save your time and words that I do not for a second believe, support, or care to read what you have to say on this topic. Perhaps, I can find something more truthful in other forums and topics. I am pulling the plug on this one. Enough is enough.
I am simply growing sadly more disappointed as I read comments on this topic by many of you that simply does not line up with the Word of God. I really thought I had found something special.Hi Richard,
Yes the logical meaning of the words of Jesus point to pre-existence of a godlike being.
Of course those that hear the Spirit in his words have an entirely different perspective.
Hi Richard,
Yes many of the followers of Jesus were offended by his words in Jn6 and no longer walked with him.
He speaks in riddles to natural men.
Nick, I am the son of my father as well as my mother. If I stated that I am the son of my father that does not make me a liar because I did not say I was also the son of my mother at the same time. There are many things about myself that I might not say but that does not make me a liar because I do not tell about them as well. Hope you get my meaning.
Hi Richard,
I would say it this a way: that there’s no such thing as a ‘lie of omission’.
Most people are bamboozled into thinking there is – well spoken brother!________________
God bless
Ed JHi ED,
I do not think you understand the righteousness of God.
He does not share His glory.
The Son of God is not a term that relates to his mother.
Hi Ed,
Prov 30
Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has the waters in His garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name or His sons’s name?
Surely you know?
Hi Ed,
Is 42.8
8“I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
This is the God that you think would share the parenting of the Son of God with a woman?
You are thinking of his title Son of Man.
Fellows:
Nick, I am the son of my father as well as my mother. If I stated that I am the son of my father that does not make me a liar because I did not say I was also the son of my mother at the same time. There are many things about myself that I might not say but that does not make me a liar because I do not tell about them as well. Hope you get my meaning.
.
(1)If anyone wants to comment in support of what I have written, I would love to hear from you.
To the rest, save your time and words that I do not for a second believe, support, or care to read what you have to say on this topic. Perhaps, I can find something more truthful in other forums and topics. (4)I am pulling the plug on this one. Enough is enough.
I am simply growing sadly more disappointed as I read comments on this topic by many of you that simply does not line up with the Word of God. (2)I really thought I had found something special.Hi Richard,
1) I support what you said to Nick.
2) I would like to weigh in on this.Forget about preexistence for a moment.
The bible says “God” is Jesus’ father, and Mary is Jesus’ mother.That would naturally give him “deity” on his father’s side and humanity on his mother’s side.
You may say this idea is all washed up, but that is what the terms “Mother” and “Father” imply.
The bible calls Jesus the “Son of God” in numerous places. That term carries the above’s meaning.Here are 7 witnesses, yea 8, that attests to the claim that Jesus is the “Son of God”…
1. God (Mark 9:7)
2. Jesus (John 9:35-37)
3. The Angel Gabriel (Luke 1:35)
4, The Prophet John (John 1:32-34)
5. Jesus’ Apostles (Matthew 16:16)
6. Demonic Spirits (Matthew 8:29)
7. A Roman Solder (Mark 15:39)8. Even Jesus’ enemies (John 5:18)
“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that
by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped
the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:4)_______________
God bless
Ed JAnd Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (John 20:28)
Hi Richard,
Now please allow me to address this verse. The key to it’s understanding is this verse:
“Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or
else believe me for the very works’ sake.” (John 14:11)”Thomas said he will not believe the works of resurrection unless…
“Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails,
and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25)Thomas finally said – “My Lord(Jesus) and my God(Jesus’ Father)” – which points back DIRECTLY TO John 14:11
“Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:
or else believe me for the very works’ sake.” (John 14:11)”_________________
God bless
Ed JHi Everyone, Conclusion:
I agree with Richard in that it is worse to attempt to take away Jesus’ deity (as The Son of God)
than what might be called to give Jesus to much deity by calling him by his father’s title: “God”.I would like to draw your attention as to why the Jews sought to crucify Jesus:
“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God” (Phil 2:6)
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath,
but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18)Jesus’ equality (as The Son of God) with God is the real issue here. In this I say “Yes”
and I think Richard says “Yes” (agreeing with me) while all The Ordinary Jesus Brigade say “No”._______________
God bless
Ed JAfter being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”
You think this relates to his physical conception in Mary?
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