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Hi Kerwin,
Though pre-existence is an interesting topic (for a short while), I don’t believe it matters much myself. This thread has gone on for a long time!
Hi Miia,
If folks are deaf to the voice of the Spirit in the mouth of Jesus Christ-as I was for years
it remains as the most LOGICAL understanding of his statements.
But it is an unnecessary addition to revealed truth
Hi Nick.
The voice of the Spirit in the mouth of Jesus Christ can still be heard, even if one believes that Jesus came down from Heaven.
One may or may not believe that Jesus came down from heaven, and they still might not hear his voice.
Danny,
Were you part of another forum where there was nastiness, by chance? If so, try not to judge a doctrine based on only a small amount of people (forum dwellers). It’s only a very small percentage of the world. Just ‘if by chance’.
Miia,
The situation is that those that think Jesus is preexisted believe he is superior a human being and that later is an obstacle to faith. The only ways Jesus was superior is that his faith has continuously been mature and he has had the Spirit to live by. The later we can both obtain and walk according to through obeying the gospel and the earlier can also be obtained as it is maturing in Christ. In short it is not far off to put on the new self created like God in true righteousness and holiness but there are many false teachings that lead one astray. Preexistence is just one of them.
Hi KW,
He was born just as we are with no headstart.
He obeyed the law perfectly and was found clean.
He was transformed by the Spirit just as we also can be.
He lived by and walked in the Spirit fulfilling the plan of God.
We can follow him
Nick,
Have you considered disagrees with Scripture for it is written”
Hebrews 7:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
There is no perfection under the Law even though Jesus, being a Jew, was made under the Law.
In addition the Law says to those under that Law that no one is perfect not one. (Romans 3:10)
Hi KW,
He was found sin free and not in need of the baptism of repentance.
He satisfied God if not you.
Nick,
He that is of the Spirit does not sin as Love is the sum of the Law but he that is of the flesh is a slave of sin for he does not know Love. Those under the Law are slaves to sin for it is the Spirit that sets one free from sin. That is what Hebrews is speaking of.
Nick,
I said nothing about satisfying me but rather about your teaching disagreeing with Scripture.
When you come to believe it is the Spirit which sets free from sin then you understand a little more.
Nick,
If you truly think that what I said is a presumption the it follows you believe Scripture is broken.
It is a simple idea to understand that those that live according to the flesh are in bondage to sin while those that live according to the Spirit are in bondage to righteousness.
It is a basic teaching of the new covenant and Jesus did say follow me. (Romans 6:17-19)
Jesus was never in bondage in bondage to sin so it follows he walked according to the Spirit.
Hi KW,
It is impossible to completely align with God without being led by the Spirit.
No man was led by the Spirit till Jesus of Nazareth was anointed at the Jordan river
He was the only man who had completely satisfied the demands of the Law before this event.
He never sinned.
Nick,
Abraham was led by the Spirit to go into the Land of Canaan but he could not walk according to its ways as he could only look forward to Christ.
We are taught John the Baptist waxed strong in the Spirit (Luke 1:80) and was filled with the Spirit from his mother’s womb (Luke 1:15)
According to Matthew 4:1 and Luke 4:1 Jesus was led to a place by the Spirit just as Abraham before him but it does does not say he was led bear the fruit of the Spirit though he surely did for he obeyed.
In fact those that are led by the Spirit, whether outwardly as Abraham or inwardly as those that bear its fruit. are the children of God. Jesus is the chief son that serves as both our example and goal for which we are called to follow him. It chose to walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh from and in his mother’s womb. The know this by his fruits.
Miia,
The situation is that those that think Jesus is preexisted believe he is superior a human being and that later is an obstacle to faith. The only ways Jesus was superior is that his faith has continuously been mature and he has had the Spirit to live by. The later we can both obtain and walk according to through obeying the gospel and the earlier can also be obtained as it is maturing in Christ. In short it is not far off to put on the new self created like God in true righteousness and holiness but there are many false teachings that lead one astray. Preexistence is just one of them.
Kerwin,
I don’t think that believing Jesus preexisted or was a superior human being is an obstacle to faith. It gives me a wow feeling knowing that the one in the bosom of God came down to earth to reveal the Father to us, then returned to where he came from, and will come again. It gives the faith power, not in our self, but in the Son of God and Father (strength). There are many possibilities regarding who the Son of God preexisted as (such as the Word or the Holy Spirit). But, whatever that may be, he was always the Son, imo.Hi Miia,
The claims he made about his life in heaven were of the Spirit of Christ
Nick,
But the claims Jesus made about his life in heaven, before earth came from the Son of Man.
“No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.” John 3.13
Hi KW,
Jesus Christ was the first man to walk in the Spirit.
Previously prophets had spoken for or worked in the power of the Spirit at times.
He is the second Adam, the firstborn of the new creation and plan of God
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