- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
Danny,
You utter vague words and expect us to understand your intentions. I assume that since you state you reject Unitarianism it means you are once again embrace the absurdity the one true God was tempted by evil even as is common to humanity. It is irrational and reason is a gift of God so reject it at your own risk of destruction. That is your choice as it is for each of us.
As for me, I am confident that Jesus was and is a human being who was was miraculously conceived in Mary the seed of David by the power God acting through his Spirit. I am confident that God appointed that human, who received and lives by the Spirit of God, King of all things. I am confident that Jesus will send that same Spirit to those that believe and will mediate between them and God so that they will mature in the faith and so learn over time to walk constantly by that Spirit.
Jesus is the Son of Man, as of the flesh, and the Son of God, as of the Spirit, for he was born of the Seed of David as of his body and of God as for his spirit. Flesh is born of flesh and spirit of Spirit.
Hi Nick:
Hi 94,
No I think it refers to the origins of the spirit of anointing on the man Jesus.
The Word was with God And was God.
As the Spirit spoke through Jesus
(The Logos, Word is that which God has spoken and embodies an idea or a plan. What John 1 tells us is that when God began to create the heavens and the earth and its host, he had a plan, and that plan was to make man in his own image. The first man was made a living soul, and the last Adam was made a life giving spirit. All things were made by the last Adam, and so, the Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but is not him as some pre-existent person. The Word was and is God because it is through His Word that God has revealed His character to humanity. In John 6 Jesus tells us that it is the Father that has given us the true bread, the living bread from heaven. First the body of Jesus was given to us when he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary and born into this world, and then in the ministry of Jesus God has through him to humanity and we have seen His character through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to Him. It was in this ministry that he was, as God’s Son and Christ, that he was in very nature God, the express image of His person. The Pharisees wanted to stone him in John 5 because they saw him claiming equality with God.)
Jesus tells us that no man has seen God at any time, but the Son who is in the heart of the Father has made Him known.
John 1:18King James Version (KJV)
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
“I proceeded forth and came from God”
Danny….Yes Jesus is the “eternal” son of GOD AND THE SON OF MAN, “NOW”. BUT HE WAS NOT ETERNAL UNTILL HE BECAME ETERNAL AFTER THE RESURECTION, OR HAVEN’T YOU READ,
Rev 1:8…. I am he that lives, and was “DEAD”; and behold, (NOW) I am alive for evermore, and have the keys of hell and of death.
Danny do you see the words i have always had that, written there, No he,”NOW” HAS that, and notice he said I AM ALIVE EVERMORE, and have the keys of hell and death, he “NOW” HAS THAT, HE DID NOT HAVE THAT BEFORE HIS HUMAN BERTH AND DEATH ON this earth. You will not find one scripture that says he already had those thing before his berth and resurection on this earth, if there is a scripture that say he already had those things before he came into existence onthis earth, please post it.
Danny You must come to see Jesus as a son of man, EVEN THOUGH GOD supplied his male DNA, HE became an eternal Son of God, through the ANOUNTING SPIRIT HE RECIEVED AT THE JORDAN RIVER. IT is essential you come to see this, I know it is difficult because of the false teachings that abound in nearly all Christendom, Satan does not want you to believe you’re exactly like Jesus was whenhe walked this earth, he does not want you to see the potential you have in GOD THE FATHER, IT IS “EXACTLY” THE SAME AS JESUS HAD AND HAS, NOT ONE OUNCE OF DIFFERENCE, JESUS is our exact example of what GOD THE FATHER has in mind for us all. Don’t let those false teachers lead you astray Danny, we are telling you the truth brother.
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi t8,
No contradiction as it was the Spirit speaking through Jesus.
Can you not yet believe Jesus?
So you are basically saying that Jesus spoke many things, but once baptized, he never spoke again. Only God spoke directly through him.
If not, please clarify.
1 John 1:2 “The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.”
It does appear that some here trip all over the John’s books.
The eternal life that was with the Father answers to the Word that was with God.
Some here say that Jesus was neither that life or the Word that was with God.
T8…..Your preseception of the word “before” used there is your problem. You assume he is speaking of his existence as a “being”, but that was not Jesus’ point , he was talking about his importance in standing. HE IS MORE INPORTANT than Abraham was
And yet, we see the Pharisees say the following: “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”. If it was you Gene, you would have said, “You assume he is speaking of his existence as a “being”. But Jesus went one step further and said: “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am”.
With my free will, I freely choose to believe Jesus version over yours. I hope you don’t mind 😉
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
By extension, those who believe that God created a man 2000 years ago and had him crucified for all humanity doesn’t show such great a love as if he had the life that was with him before the cosmos come in the flesh and die and suffer for us.
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
You see he was known before the foundation of the world. If you say not, then you have to believe that he was created only for our sake. But if he was truly known, then he was REVEALED for our sake meaning his existence was not determined for our sake, only his revealing to us.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh, I wouldn’t recommend teaching otherwise.
t8,
With my free will, I freely choose to believe Jesus version over yours. I hope you don’t mind
Actually you are taking the viewpoint of the nonbelievers.
This is Jesus’
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
There are two basic versions of Jesus’ words which essentially mean the same thing though one appears easier to understand. They are.
American Standard Version
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad.Douay-Rheims Bible
Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.The Douay-Rheims is the one I thing is easier to understand as it is more literal.
a) “Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day”or
b) “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day”Both speak of a day in Abraham’s future so clearly Jesus is not claiming his day is before Abraham’s.
The more vague statement is “and he saw it, and was glad” and it is the same in both versions. It is vague because it literally means it is something Abraham saw with his eyes and the unbelieving Jews assumed that even though Abraham was a prophet he had to be physically present. Anyone who understands prophesy knows the prophet does not have to be physically present in order to see an event. 1 Peter 1:10-12 essentially says the same thing.
Jesus chose to ignore the objection of unbelievers and merely rephrased the idea that he is more important than Abraham, hoping that, like the Samaritan woman at the well, some of them would come to understand the meaning of his words.
t8,
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of youFor He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
Foreknown means known before and with the words “For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world” tells he came after the foundation of the world. The words “but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you” teach us that prophecy was fulfilled in these last days. Peters words in 1:20 does not support the claim Jesus preexisted before he was a conceptus in his mother’s womb.
t8,
1 John 1:2 “The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.”
It does appear that some here trip all over the John’s books.
The eternal life that was with the Father answers to the Word that was with God.
Some here say that Jesus was neither that life or the Word that was with God.
Jesus is the one that stated his words are life and Spirit. It is Jesus’ words that John and other proclaim when they speak the gospel of Christ.
According to Jesus the Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John the Baptist and the way into the kingdom of heaven was proclaimed afterwards. So it seems like John is speaking of that way when he states the life appeared to us.
Being both the Author and Finishing of the Faith Jesus is entwined with the Gospel.
Dear Kerwin,you do make some good points above to which I have no argument;as a former unitarian myself.But it’s the gospel of St John,Hebrews and other verses which lead to that belief of Jesus preexistence.I do think St Paul believed in his preexistence but as a most high angel/spirit and not as the most high God.
AndrewAD,
Dear Kerwin,you do make some good points above to which I have no argument;as a former unitarian myself.But it’s the gospel of St John,Hebrews and other verses which lead to that belief of Jesus preexistence.I do think St Paul believed in his preexistence but as a most high angel/spirit and not as the most high God.
John and Paul do not disagree with one another but they had different audiences. John’s words seem to be aimed a audience that was more into a mystic way of speech than Paul though Paul’s writings are not free from it either. Whether it is Paul or John there mystic writings are confusing to those that come from other cultures.
To a Jew that is free of influence from a pagan culture of from false teachings like the Trinity it would not be as confusing as they have learned from their birth to think in terms of one God that is only one person. Such an individual would never think there are two “Gods” or two persons that are both God mentioned in John 1:1. Instead they would heart that the word of God was with God in the beginning and also had the qualities of God. Philo of Alexandria shares his view of the mean of theos without the direct article and he explains does not mean God but rather the qualities of God and even then it does not include the quality of being the one true God. He was speaking about the language and may not have even known what John wrote.
There are Trinitarians that will claim that the word those without the direct article means the logos has the qualities of God but they disagree with Philo on whether on not one of those qualities is the one true God. I agree with him.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
