Preexistence

Participant

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,12:33)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2014,10:24)

Quote (gadam123 @ June 03 2014,00:06)

……..one has to understand Jesus' origins in the light of Monotheism of God which does not permit any other god being besides God Himself.

The scriptures are LOADED with many different gods, Adam.

I mean, how could Jehovah be the God OF gods if He is LITERALLY the ONLY god?

How can He be the MOST HIGH God – if there are no less high gods?

Both Paul and Jehovah Himself called Satan a god in scripture. And Job 1 and 2 tell about a time when the god Satan came to present himself before HIS OWN God, Jehovah.

So once again, it is your own misunderstanding of a “monotheistic Bible” that is causing you to not believe the many scriptures that say Jesus pre-existed.

Don't lean on your own understanding, Adam. The Bible is literally loaded with gods. Most of them are mighty, but Jehovah is the only ALMIGHTY one.

GAdam

We all agree that there his only one almighty God , is not this what we said ? Yes

Why are you saying what we agree on , what is your point here

June 5, 2014 at 6:38 am#387188

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,10:11)

Hi T,
no question there.

June 5, 2014 at 7:05 pm#387227

Participant

Hi,
All is of God and His Spirit.
But natural men still try to highlight the weak flesh.

The flesh contributes nothing [jn6]

June 5, 2014 at 9:06 pm#387252

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,07:37)

hi T,
Do you not believe the Word came from heaven?

it is talking about Jesus Christ not” the Word ”

Jn 3:12 I(Jesus) have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.(Jesus)

Jn 6:38 For I(Jesus) have come down from heaven not to do my (Jesus)will but to do the will of him who sent me.

June 6, 2014 at 12:01 am#387296

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2014,20:23)

hi T,
Scripture does not say that .
Jesus Christ said
I CAME

Can you hear the Spirit?

Scripture does not say that Jesus came down from heaven?

That's a blatant lie, Nick.

Scripture absolutely says that Jesus said the words in John 6:38.

And the word “Christ” isn't even mentioned in that chapter. So it was literally JESUS who said those words, and therefore JESUS who came down from heaven to do God's will instead of his own will.

Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

June 6, 2014 at 1:08 am#387298

Blocked

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,00:33)

I know there are so called gods exist……

Hi Adam,

Did you know there is not one single Hebrew or Greek verse in the entire Bible that mentions a “so-called god”, or a “false god”?

Those are English words, which were ADDED to the scriptures. But consider:

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Hebrews 1:8
But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

Surely you realize that both of these scriptures are about Jesus. And surely you realize that it was Jehovah Himself who was calling Jesus a god in those scriptures.

So is Jesus a “so-called god”? Is he a “false god”?

And more importantly, since it's clear that Jesus IS called a god in scripture, could he have been the god who was with THE God in John 1:1? Or better yet…….. is there any SCRIPTURAL or LOGICAL reason that would PROHIBIT Jesus from being the god who was with THE God in John 1:1?

Also, consider these scriptures:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 45:21
And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

Can we say that Jehovah is the “only TRUE Savior”? Yes, because He is the ULTIMATE Savior. Without Him, none of the saviors He has sent throughout the history of the earth (and there have been many) would have the power to even save themselves – let alone others.

But would calling Jehovah “The Only True Savior” mean He is LITERALLY the only one?

2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Use discernment in these matters, Adam. If Jehovah was LITERALLY the ONLY God, then He couldn't be the God OF gods.

If Jehovah was LITERALLY the ONLY Savior, then scripture LIES to us by saying Jesus, and some others, were also saviors.

I ask you to comment on Isaiah 9:6, and Hebrews 1:8 for me. What does it mean that Jesus is called “god” – BY JEHOVAH – in both of those verses?

A. Jesus is a “so-called/false god”.

B. The scriptures saying Jehovah is the ONLY God, and the ONLY Savior, are emphatic statements, and not to be taken in a LITERAL sense. Their meaning is that Jehovah is a “God” and “Savior” in a way that no one else could be……. but not LITERALLY the ONLY “god”, or the ONLY “savior”.

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,00:33)

What I see here that there can not be another God besides Him so I can't understand what you people quote here.

But are you beginning to understand it better now? Are you able to see that I'm merely speaking what I learned directly from the scriptures themselves?

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,00:33)

I am trying to understand the position of Jesus in reference to this unique God and what is his relationship with this only God.

Simple. Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb, Messiah, Prophet, Priest, Word (Spokesman), and firstborn Son of Jehovah God Most High.

Like his spirit brothers, the angels, Jesus is also a god. Jesus is one of the many gods that Jehovah is the God OF, Adam.

He is the highest ranking of all of them – except of course for his own God, Jehovah.

He had much glory at the side of God in the beginning. God created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them through His firstborn Son.

Then God sent that Son into the earth as a flesh man to accomplish a task that could only be rightfully accomplished in that particular way. The task concerned the fact that mankind is inherently evil. There is not enough cows and lambs in the world to atone for our ever-increasing sins. In other words, there was no way Jehovah could ever consider any of us “righteous” again.

So He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus, into the world to take those sins upon himself – and to die for our sins. This was the only way, according to God's own justice, that He could ever be righteous in calling any of us righteous.

See, now He is able to call us “righteous” – even though we are FAR from that – and invite some of us into everlasting life. And the reason He can now do that is because He piled the sins of all of us onto His own, beloved firstborn Son, and let His only begotten take those sins far away from us…. metaphorically speaking, of course.

Our sins were/are so heinous, that the only way God considered good enough to atone for them was by sacrificing His most dear possession on our behalf.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son………

1 John 4
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Quote (gadam123 @ June 05 2014,00:33)

We can't continue to play with words like this forever…

Agreed. We can not tolerate word games like “false gods” and “so-called gods” – when those phrases aren't actually in any scripture.

We must be brave, and accept the Bible for what it actually teaches, instead of just accepting the “status quo” as the undeniable truth. Because in this case, it is far from the truth of the scriptures.

“Popular theories” that have been handed down for generations will not cut it. We need to accept the REAL truth of scriptures. And that truth is that there exist MANY gods, both in heaven and on earth……. and Jehovah is the God and Creator of all of them.

June 6, 2014 at 1:13 am#387300

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,13:05)

All is of God and His Spirit.

Here Nick,

Let me correct what you wrote:

All is of God and His Spirit……..who by the way has a will of his own that is DIFFERENT than the will of the God he belongs to………… but even so, he's NOT a “sentient person”.

There, that's a more accurate accounting of what you believe, wouldn't you say?

June 6, 2014 at 1:15 am#387301

Participant

Hi MB,
.”..who by the way has a will of his own that is DIFFERENT than the will of the God he belongs to………… but even so, he's NOT a “sentient person”.”
Theological babble

why not discuss what is written?

June 6, 2014 at 2:11 am#387324

Participant

Quote

All is of God and His Spirit

Quote

why not discuss what is written?

WHERE ARE THOSE WORDS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURES PLEASE HELP ME BY QUOTING WHERE IN SCRIPTURES IT IS

June 6, 2014 at 2:23 am#387331

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2014,19:15)

Hi MB,
.”..who by the way has a will of his own that is DIFFERENT than the will of the God he belongs to………… but even so, he's NOT a “sentient person”.”
Theological babble

why not discuss what is written?

My thoughts EXACTLY, Nick!

Your theory IS “theological babble, and we SHOULD discuss what is written.

Are you ready?

John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Now compare:

John 17
1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

Is there any question that it is JESUS who is doing the praying? Surely the “Spirit that is God” wouldn't pray TO God, right? Nor is that “Spirit” God's SON, right?

6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

Who did God GIVE certain people to, Nick? Wasn't it to His Son Jesus?

Now compare that teaching to John 6, where the will of the one who sent Jesus into the world from heaven was that Jesus wouldn't lose any of those God had GIVEN him.

See how it all fits together?

So WHO came down from heaven to do the will of God, which was to not lose any of those God had given him?

June 6, 2014 at 2:28 am#387334

Participant

Hi MB,
So if you understand what Jesus said about being the bread of life you have some spiritual insight.

He is the bread that came down from heaven. If it was the man speaking then the bread being his flesh would be physical.
But it was the Spirit that he was speaking of as with the water of Jn7.
His words are Spirit and truth
They are life

June 6, 2014 at 2:31 am#387336

Blocked

First address the clear points and comparisons I just made for you.

THEN we can talk about the bread from heaven.

June 6, 2014 at 2:42 am#387340

Participant

Hi MB,
Are you saying that Jesus was the ONLY PROPHET who did not have the Spirit of Christ in him?[1Peter 1.11]

June 6, 2014 at 2:58 am#387349

Participant

hi MB,
The Spirit of the Son serves the Father.
The flesh contributes nothing

June 6, 2014 at 2:59 am#387350

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2014,08:42)

Hi MB,
Are you saying that Jesus was the ONLY PROPHET who did not have the Spirit of Christ in him?[1Peter 1.11]

MIKE

i HAVE ANSWERED THAT SAME QUESTION TO NICK IN ANOTHER TOPIC

June 6, 2014 at 2:59 am#387351

Participant

Hi MB,
Rom8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

June 6, 2014 at 3:00 am#387352

Participant

Hi MB,
Gal4
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

June 6, 2014 at 3:07 am#387356

Participant

hi MB,
Do you have the Spirit of the Son in you?

June 7, 2014 at 12:03 am#387497