Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,20:50)

Hi MB, Yes he wants you listen when he tells you he is in the father and the Father is in him and the words he says are from the Father.

See, now that's what the scriptures say, Nick.

The words he said are “from the Father” – not from some “Spirit of Anointing” thing that you and Gene made up out of thin air.

And in the past, when it came to verses like John 6:38 and 8:58, you guys, not WANTING to believe Jesus pre-existed – for your own personal reasons – would just say, “Oh, those words were said by God who was dwelling IN Jesus.”  That was your explanation for anything Jesus said that pointed to his pre-existence.

But that simply CANNOT be the case in John 6:38 and 8:58.

In 8:58, it would make no sense for the Father to just up and start speaking in the middle of words JESUS was clearly saying – and tell people that He (GOD) existed before Abraham did.

I mean, what sense would it make?  Obviously, every single Jew out there already KNEW that God existed before Abraham did – so what would be the point in saying it?  Also, nobody there (including Jesus' apostles and disciples) seemed to “discern” that the Father said those words, right?

So how is it that YOU GUYS are able to discern such a thing 2000 years later?  Perhaps BIAS is the “discerning spirit” that showed you this?

And as for 6:38, there is simply NO WAY OUT for you guys.  Because the Father OBVIOUSLY did not speak through Jesus and tell his listeners that He (GOD) came down from heaven – not to do His own will – but to do the will of “the one who SENT Him”.

I mean, how can the Father do the will of the Father – INSTEAD OF doing the will of the Father? And who is it that ever SENT the Father to do anything?

So, the bottom line is that we know “the Father” spoke through Jesus.  This most likely means that Jesus spoke the teachings that the Father instructed him to speak…… and not that the Father ever LITERALLY spoke HIS OWN words from the body of the man Jesus.

So although it is not clear in any scripture that the Father LITERALLY spoke words from Jesus' mouth – it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that the Father didn't say the words of John 6:38 and 8:58.

And that means those words were LITERALLY said BY JESUS – just like the writer said they were.  And that means it was JESUS who was in existence before Abraham came into existence.  And it was JESUS who literally came down from heaven to do the will of his Father, instead of his own will.

You guys will have to come to terms with these things.  The only other option is to make a WILLING decision to ignore the scriptures to keep holding on to your own man-made doctrines.

The choice, as always, is yours to make.

[terraricca]

Quote (gadam123 @ June 03 2014,17:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,18:30) Hi , God spoke about His son several times from the Jordan onwards. Folk prefer their own theories Rightly said it brother Nick rest of the references to the son only in prophetic utterances and they always point towards future events..

gadam123

you should answer my questions or can you not

for you saw your error

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Are you still ignorant of the Father AND the Son coming and abiding in the reborn sons?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gadam123 @ June 03 2014,00:06)

……..one has to understand Jesus' origins in the light of Monotheism of God which does not permit any other god being besides God Himself.

The scriptures are LOADED with many different gods, Adam.

I mean, how could Jehovah be the God OF gods if He is LITERALLY the ONLY god?

How can He be the MOST HIGH God – if there are no less high gods?

Both Paul and Jehovah Himself called Satan a god in scripture.  And Job 1 and 2 tell about a time when the god Satan came to present himself before HIS OWN God, Jehovah.

At that moment, a god (Satan) was with THE God (Jehovah). Actually, since scripture calls angels in general “gods”, there were many gods presenting themselves before their own God, Jehovah, at that time.

So once again, it is your own misunderstanding of a “monotheistic Bible” that is causing you to not believe the many scriptures that say Jesus pre-existed.

Don't lean on your own understanding, Adam.  The Bible is literally loaded with gods.  Most of them are mighty, but Jehovah is the only ALMIGHTY one.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB
Again you mock the Mighty Spirit of God

“The words he said are “from the Father” – not from some “Spirit of Anointing” thing that you and Gene made up out of thin air.”

Do you feel secure doing that?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You expect scripture to always make sense to you and satisfy your reason.
That is your biggest problem.
Let God be in control

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
” it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that the Father didn't say the words of John 6:38 and 8:58.”

The Spirit of Christ did, the servant Spirit in and of the Holy Spirit.

“WE will come to you.”Jn14

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,17:23)

Hi MB, Are you still ignorant of the Father AND the Son coming and abiding in the reborn sons?

Nope. But that comment doesn't address the things I just laid out for you in my previous post, does it?

Nick, did THE FATHER say He came down from heaven, not to do His own will, but to do the will of the one who SENT Him?

Nope. Case closed.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
“So, the bottom line is that we know “the Father” spoke through Jesus.”
True

Now discern the Word

'We will come to you”

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So who are the WE in the scripture above?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,17:25)

Hi MB Again you mock the Mighty Spirit of God “The words he said are “from the Father” – not from some “Spirit of Anointing” thing that you and Gene made up out of thin air.” Do you feel secure doing that?

I'm not knocking any REAL Spirit of God……… only the fake one that you and Gene made up.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,17:35)

Hi MB, “So, the bottom line is that we know “the Father” spoke through Jesus.” True

But did THE FATHER say the words of John 6:38? YES or NO, Nick?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Of course not.
The Spirit of Christ spoke
The Word that was with God and was God.

So who are the WE in jn 14

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,17:48)

Hi MB, Of course not. The Spirit of Christ spoke The Word that was with God and was God.

So “the Spirit that WAS God” said those words, but “the Father” didn't?

How is it that “the Spirit that WAS God” came to have a DIFFERENT will than “the God he WAS”?

Also, show me from scripture that ANY “spirit” (besides God the Father) spoke through Jesus.

[mikeboll64]

Gene and Adam,

Please respond DIRECTLY to the points I made in the 4th post on page 581.

Thanks.

(By “DIRECTLY”, I mean NOT with a bunch of sermons about how I don't know what a spirit is, or about how I don't believe God was in Jesus, or about how my work here is separating Jesus from ourselves, etc.

I want DIRECT answers to the PROOF I laid out showing that it couldn't have possibly been “the Father” who said the words of John 6:38 and 8:58.

In other words, give me reasons why it COULD HAVE BEEN the Father who said those words…………. or acknowledge for me that it COULDN'T HAVE BEEN.)

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
John 6:38 and 8:58.

Good examples of the Spirit of Christ speaking

So who are the WE in jn 14

” My Father and I will come to you”

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you understand the will of heaven?
Better to believe than to have to understand first.

Faith is believing what you cannot see.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The Holy Spirit is more than the Father's Spirit
Now the Lord is the Spirit

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2014,05:35)

Hi MB, “So, the bottom line is that we know “the Father” spoke through Jesus.” True Now discern the Word 'We will come to you”

N

so according to you they (we) will come to all who believe in person right

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Those who are reborn from above.

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