Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Wakeup has told us we should know that The Spirit speaks through Jesus Christ.
But you do not know this yet?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
This what WU said
“If you dont believe that God was speaking through Jesus.
May God help you.”

He knows but do you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,12:24)

Hi MB, You say “John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me. Jesus himself said these words…… and the words aren't hard to understand.” Do you think God's Spirit is in Jesus? Do you agree the Spirit of Christ speaks through the Son?

Nick,

What I think is that you and Gene have concocted this “Spirit of Christ” thing, and imagine it is a literal spirit of God, like “the Holy Spirit”, or the “seven spirits” in Revelation.

But the fact is that the “spirit of Christ” is the “spirit of JESUS the Anointed”. And Jesus' spirit didn't exist until Jesus existed.

There was no “spirit of Nick” until there existed a “Nick”. The was no “spirit of Mike” until there existed a “Mike”.

Get it?

The “spirit of Christ” is simply the spirit of Jesus Christ – just like we all have our own spirits as well.

So yes, God's Holy Spirit was in Jesus Christ from BEFORE the moment he was born as a flesh child on earth.

And the “spirit of Christ” doesn't “speak through” Christ anymore than the “spirit of Nick” “speaks through” Nick.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
My you are confused.

You need this Spirit
Rom 8
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,12:28)

Hi MB, Yes the Spirit of Christ was before Abraham. The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets 1 peter 1.10-11

And this spirit, which you say ALWAYS existed, and was actually God Himself (John 1:1), felt it necessary to speak out of the mouth of the man Jesus of Nazareth, to let those Jews know that “GOD HIMSELF” had been alive before Abraham was born?  

Come on, Nick.

And which of those Jews were able to decipher that this eternal spirit was the one doing the speaking, and not the man Jesus?  Which of Jesus' own disciples and apostles were able to discern that God Himself spoke through Jesus to say God was alive before Abraham was?

This whole thing smacks of nonsense, Nick.

So here's how it lays out – according to you:

1.  Jesus himself didn't say those words.

2.  God said those words through Jesus.

3.  None of the people there were able to discern that it was God, and not Jesus himself, who said those words…….. not even Jesus' own disciples.

4.  Since you and Gene are the only men alive to be able to discern the true speaker of those words, please tell us WHY God would bother to tell everyone that He existed before Abraham did.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
Has the Holy Spirit not always existed?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Natural men still get bewildered by the Spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,12:45)

Hi MB, This what WU said “If you dont believe that God was speaking through Jesus. May God help you.” He knows but do you?

Wakeup said those words to Pierre. But tell my why God, speaking through Jesus, would tell everyone that He existed before Abraham did.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
To confuse the natural minds so they have a choice of giving up or digging deeper?
Or even seeking the same Spirit

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,16:56)

Hi MB, My you are confused. You need this Spirit Rom 8 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the life-giving spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Through the spirit of the PERSON Jesus Christ, we are set free. The “spirit of Christ” is simply the spirit of our Lord, Jesus Christ, Nick.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Those who have received the Spirit of Christ and walk according to the Spirit fulfil the law.
You need the Spirit

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,17:16)

Hi MB, To confuse the natural minds so they have a choice of giving up or digging deeper? Or even seeking the same Spirit

Really? So among those present that day, who do you suppose DIDN'T know that God existed before Abraham did?

Nick, this is your understanding of the events:

1. The Jews said Jesus wasn't yet even 50 years old, so there's no way he could have seen or known Abraham.

2. Then GOD stepped in, speaking through Jesus, to let these Jews know that He (GOD) had existed before Abraham did.

3. And because of what GOD said, the Jews picked up stones to kill JESUS.

4. But then Jesus protested that he didn't blaspheme against GOD with the words GOD actually said through him.

Does that sound about right? Come on, man.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,17:24)

Hi MB, Those who have received the Spirit of Christ and walk according to the Spirit fulfil the law. You need the Spirit

I have it. It is what gives me the strength to come to this site, day after day, and spend my time trying to teach scriptural truth.

Thank you Jesus, for letting me share in your spirit…… for it gives me strength and truth.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
It was the Spirit of Christ of course-in and of the Spirit of God

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Then you need to let the Spirit rule your mind so scripture reveals itself to you.
Toss out the dogmas and theologies that have ruled there

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

Tell my why God, speaking through Jesus, would tell everyone that He existed before Abraham did.

I mean, who WOULDN'T know such a thing already?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The Spirit of Christ in and of the Spirit of God informed men
But the natural minded ones can never grasp his words

[gadam123]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2014,05:13)

Quote (gadam123 @ May 25 2014,01:03) The question here- was Jesus literally pre-existed his birth? All verses you quoted are indirect references to pre-existence. Hi Adam, The list Pierre quoted for you is quite substantial.  But your take is that these verses are “indirect references”.  We, on the other hand, see them as easy to understand proofs of Jesus' pre-existence. But the following is really the ONLY verse anyone really needs, Adam: John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me. Jesus himself said these words…… and the words aren't hard to understand. Nick and Gene will try to convince you that it was “the Spirit of Anointing” who said those words. But that argument only works IF this “Spirit of Anointing” was a sentient being in heaven before HE came down from heaven. We know this because only sentient beings have their own will, Adam.  And whoever said those words clearly had their own will, but was sent from heaven to do God's will instead. So then the question becomes:  WHO (not “what”) was existing in heaven with his own will, but came to earth from heaven to do the will of He who sent him? And the only two possible answers are: 1.  Jesus Christ himself – the one who actually said those words. 2.  The “Spirit of Anointing”, which was a sentient PERSON in heaven before being sent to earth to do the Father's will. Since I don't have any pre-conceived teachings from men that I have to protect, I have no reason to think anyone but Jesus himself said those words – since John attributed those words TO Jesus. The response from the Jews in verse 42 also sheds some light on the matter – since it shows that it was indeed “Jesus of Nazareth” who uttered those words. And the words of Jesus in verse 62 should be enough to close the discussion once and for all, since Jesus attributes all of the former words to “the Son of Man” (as opposed to “the Spirit of Anointing”), and hints that some of them standing there would see this “Son of Man” ascend back into heaven – the place he said he came down from. So, if one was to BELIEVE Jesus' own words in John 6, then they would also believe that Jesus himself came down from heaven, not to do his own will, but to do the will of the Father, who sent him down from heaven for that very purpose. They would also believe that Jesus would ascend back to where he came from, ie: heaven. I believe those words of Jesus, Adam.  Do you?

I am aware of these verses brother Mike. But how to understand Jesus' personality if he was born as baby and need to learn every thing like any other human being. I am not able digest such contradictory statements if he was pre-existing as sentient being he did not need to learn any thing or to be perfected as mentioned in Heb 4 & 5.

[gadam123]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2014,04:19)

Quote (gadam123 @ May 25 2014,00:55) …….what kind of human that Jesus can be if he was pre-existing prior to his birth? Can he be real human like you and me who are born with Adamic nature likely to be tempted and possibility of sinning? Adam, God can make children of Abraham out of stones.  If God did so, would it matter that those children used to be something else before? After all, Adam himself was nothing but dust before God formed him into a man, right? I guess my point is:  If God decides to make a human being, does it really matter what that human being used to be?  Dust of the earth, natural elements, stones, a spirit being in heaven? I say no.  Because if the end result is a human being, then the end result is a human being, right?

God can not act against his own nature..here Spirit of Christ is his(God's) own Spirit as per few members in this forum.

[Wakeup]

The child had to grow physically,
but He has the HS in Him.
When the physical has reach maturity,
He is ready to teach as an adult.

wakeup.

[Author]

Posts