Preexistence

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 29 2011,09:51)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 27 2011,22:53)

I am a result of Father Yahweh's creation in the beginning and was not directly created by Father Yahweh.

Frank,

Don't you even realize you're saying about yourself EXACTLY was t8 was saying?

If you weren't DIRECTLY created by the Father, then you have no choice but to be created by Him THROUGH other agencies, such as Jesus, Adam, Eve, your parents, etc.

Mike,

No, I was not a direct creation of Father Yahweh nor was I directly created by Father Yahweh “THROUGH other agencies, such as Jesus, Adam, Eve, [my] parents, etc.”. My earthly father and mother were not creators. Father Yahweh ALONE created within Adam (mankind – man and woman) a reproductive system and I was BORN THOUGH this process and was not directly created by Father Yahweh. The process by which a man and a woman come together, have sexual intercourse and bear children is called procreating, not creating. This is also known as propagating and reproducing.

November 29, 2011 at 6:28 pm#266299

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2011,00:48)

T8………..If God created “EVERY THING” through Jesus then please tell us what part Jesus played in that process…

peace and love………………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

I can answer that. Rev.13:8 indicates that Jesus' crucifixion
was determined and agreed to before the world was created.
“the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Rev. 13:8)

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father,
save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

November 29, 2011 at 6:54 pm#266306

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,11:28)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2011,00:48)

T8………..If God created “EVERY THING” through Jesus then please tell us what part Jesus played in that process…

peace and love………………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

I can answer that. Rev.13:8 indicates that Jesus' crucifixion
was determined and agreed to before the world was created.
“the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Rev. 13:8)

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father,
save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

good comment

Pierre

November 29, 2011 at 7:15 pm#266309

Ed J

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2011,04:54)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,11:28)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2011,00:48)

T8………..If God created “EVERY THING” through Jesus then please tell us what part Jesus played in that process…

peace and love………………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

I can answer that. Rev.13:8 indicates that Jesus' crucifixion
was determined and agreed to before the world was created.
“the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Rev. 13:8)

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father,
save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

good comment

Pierre

November 29, 2011 at 8:51 pm#266316

Participant

Yahshua The Light
By Voy Wilks
5/14/02

Yahshua the Messiah is indeed referred to as the light of the world (John 1:7-9; 8:12; 9:5; 12:35; Luke 2:32). Does this mean he pre-existed?

John the Baptist came as a light to bear witness to a greater light (St. John 1:7-9).

“… a burning and a shining light” (John 5:35, KJV).

Does this mean that John the Baptist pre-existed?

“Ye <> are the light of the world … Let your light so shine …” (Mt. 5:14-16).

Does this mean the disciples pre-existed? No. The glorious gospel of the Messiah is what brings light to Believers (2 Cor. 4:4). His disciples walk in the light because of faith in the Messiah Yahshua walked in the light because of his faith and the closeness to Yahweh, he light giver.

“For ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Messiah. Walk as children of the light” (Eph. 5:8).

“Ye <> are all the children of light …” (1 Thes. 5:5).

Yahshua was the greater light of all the prophets; the prophets who delivered the true message of the Most High to planet earth. He was not swayed by peer pressure. Even so, this does not indicate Yahshua pre-existed. When we study the word pre-exist. it basically means, he existed before he existed. Yahshua was like Moses (a man), a prophet in Israel.

“I <> will raise up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee <>, and will put my words in his mouth …” (Deut. 18:15-18,19).

He was born of a woman, made under the law (Gal 4:4).

November 29, 2011 at 9:18 pm#266318

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2011,00:48)

T8………..If God created “EVERY THING” through Jesus then please tell us what part Jesus played in that process, you have explained what parts played in you explanations , So now tell us What Part Jesus Played, and if you can't then how can you make the claim…………………..

Gene.

What part did he play?
God made all things through him and for him.
It doesn't give specifics on the mechanisms involved, but we know that he was with God before anything was made and all that is made was made through him.

The first to be WITH God was the Word.
Before creation God created all through his Word.
Jesus is the Word of God who later came in the flesh for our sakes.

Read it yourself:

JOHN 1:1-3,10 NKJ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
………
10 HE was in the world, and the world was made through HIM, and the world did not know HIM.

See it was the son that God made all things through and in case you doubt the above text, here is another:

Colossians 1:15-18
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

How much clearer does one have to be Gene.
Anoint Your eyes with eye salve that you may see.
Ye of little faith. Why do you doubt the scriptures?

You see Gene.
I can boldly say that God made all things through him and for him.
And you cannot. You can say it, and then you need to say, BUT….

When you say BUT….., you are really saying it is not true.

e.g.,
Q: Can you pay me that $500 you owe me.
A: Yes, BUT….

It means no right, because the but of the sentence will contain an excuse why you cannot.

So you deny that God made all things through the son, and we proclaim it.
Gene, you are so full of your own understanding that I even doubt my message to you will have any impact.

But that is the problem with man right there.
When light shines into their darkness, they flee the light.

November 29, 2011 at 9:23 pm#266320

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,06:51)

Yahshua The Light
By Voy Wilks
5/14/02

Yahshua the Messiah is indeed referred to as the light of the world (John 1:7-9; 8:12; 9:5; 12:35; Luke 2:32). Does this mean he pre-existed?

John the Baptist came as a light to bear witness to a greater light (St. John 1:7-9).

“… a burning and a shining light” (John 5:35, KJV).

Does this mean that John the Baptist pre-existed?

“Ye <> are the light of the world … Let your light so shine …” (Mt. 5:14-16).

“For ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Messiah. Walk as children of the light” (Eph. 5:8).

“Ye <> are all the children of light …” (1 Thes. 5:5).

“I <> will raise up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee <>, and will put my words in his mouth …” (Deut. 18:15-18,19).

He was born of a woman, made under the law (Gal 4:4).

This has no bearing on Jesus being the Word of God and God creating all things through him and for him.

The world was made through him and for him and the world did not recognise him.
Do you recognise the one whom God made everything through Frank?
Looks to me like you do not.

Did not the Pharisees believe in YHWH? Yes.
Did they recognise the one whom he created the world through? No.
In what way are you different to them Frank?

And John the Baptist doesn't change any of this Frank.

November 29, 2011 at 11:13 pm#266328

Participant

YAHSHUA'S ORIGIN

One Among Many Brethren
Hebrews 2:10-12

Voy Wilks
8/31/99

Some people seem to forget Moses promised that Yahweh would raise up a prophet “like unto me [Moses] from among your [Israel's] brethren” (Deut. 18:15). Was Moses a pre-existent deity? Were his brethren pre-existent deities? That Yahshua was not a pre-existent deity, but was one brother among many brethren is made clear in this and other Scriptures:

“For it was fitting that He [Yahweh], for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer [Yahshua] of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he [Yahshua] who sanctifies and those [other sons] who are sanctified have all one origin. That is why he [Yahshua] is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, 'I will proclaim thy [Yahweh's] Name to my [Yahshua's] brethren, in the midst of the congregation. I [Yahshua] will praise thee [Yahweh] (Heb. 2:10-12, RSV).

Yahshua had the same origin as his brethren, which means he did not pre-exist.

When we cry, 'Abba! Father!,' [Yahweh] it is the Spirit himself [Yahweh] bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of Yahweh, and if children, then heirs, heirs of Yahweh and fellow heirs with Yahshua, provided we suffer with him [Yahshua] in order that we might also be glorified with him” [Yahshua] (Rom. 8:15-17).

Think on these things.
SOURCE

November 29, 2011 at 11:49 pm#266329

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 30 2011,07:23)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,06:51)

Yahshua The Light
By Voy Wilks
5/14/02

Yahshua the Messiah is indeed referred to as the light of the world (John 1:7-9; 8:12; 9:5; 12:35; Luke 2:32). Does this mean he pre-existed?

John the Baptist came as a light to bear witness to a greater light (St. John 1:7-9).

“… a burning and a shining light” (John 5:35, KJV).

Does this mean that John the Baptist pre-existed?

“Ye <> are the light of the world … Let your light so shine …” (Mt. 5:14-16).

“For ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Messiah. Walk as children of the light” (Eph. 5:8).

“Ye <> are all the children of light …” (1 Thes. 5:5).

“I <> will raise up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee <>, and will put my words in his mouth …” (Deut. 18:15-18,19).

He was born of a woman, made under the law (Gal 4:4).

http://www.bible.cc/john/12-49.htm

This has no bearing on Jesus being the Word of God and God creating all things through him and for him.

The world was made through him and for him and the world did not recognise him.
Do you recognise the one whom God made everything through Frank?
Looks to me like you do not.

Did not the Pharisees believe in YHWH? Yes.
Did they recognise the one whom he created the world through? No.
In what way are you different to them Frank?

And John the Baptist doesn't change any of this Frank.

t8,

Yahshua is not the word of his and our Father Yahweh, but is the spokesman of His and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. All things were not created through Yahshua as a pre-existent being with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning (Genesis). Yahchanan is speaking here in Yahchanan chapter 1 how “IN THE BEGINNING ….” (Genesis) that Father Yahweh spoke and what He spoke came into existence. Yahchanan is not speaking of a “pre-existent son” that Yahweh created through in the beginning.

I recognize that it was Father Yahweh “ALONE” and “BY HIMSELF” that created the Havens and the Earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Father Yahweh makes it clearly known in His inspired prophetic word that there was no one beside Him in His creating. Not once in the so-called “New Testament” will you ever find Yahshua recorded as proclaiming or saying that he had created ANYTHING. This is a Scriptural fact whether you choose to believe it or not!

WHO IS THE WORD?
(John 1:1)

In John 1:1 the writer is very plain in telling us who the 'word' was. He says the word was God. Now we must find out who God is and we will then know who the word is. Let's see who John says God is. Let's go to v.18 of this same chapter. John tells us that God is the Father, not Jesus the only begotten son. Now if we can believe John that God is the Father let's examine the Scripture back to v.1. We find the word 'God' in v.13 and John said God was the Father. In v.12, we find the word 'God,' and keeping this in context with v. 18, John has said God is the Father, not the son. Now let's go back to v.6. Here we find the word 'God'. Again staying in the context of John 1:18, John has said that God is the Father, not the son.Now let's go to v.2. We find the word 'God' again. Staying in context with John 1:18. John tells us God is the Father, not the son Jesus. Now last of all, let's go to v.1 where we find God two times. Again staying in context with v.18, we find John telling us that God is the Father ,not the son. Since John says God is the Father then the 'word' was God the Father. not Jesus the son. Believest thou this? Since God is made up of His 'word', the 'word' can be with God and be God – not another person. According to John there is only one person mentioned in John 1:1. That one person is God the Father, the Almighty.

In John 1:14, this same 'word' that was God the Father (because the word was in the Father) produced His son Jesus. The 'word' in John 1:14 is not Jesus. The 'word', God the Father, produced Jesus. The word (in God the Father) 'made' flesh or an earthly fleshly tabernacle for Jesus to dwell in. This was not a new thing because the same 'word' in God the Father had produced a fleshly tabernacle for Adam, for Eve, for monkeys, for giraffes, for elephants, and etc. This same thing is shown in 1 Cor. 15:39 where Paul said “all flesh is not the same flesh but there is one kind of flesh for men, another flesh of beats, another of fishes and another of birds. The 'word' with and in God the Father made or produced all of those kinds of flesh and later produced a fleshly body for Jesus.

A deeper understanding of this is that he word or doctrine in God the Father produced the flesh [word or doctrine] in Jesus Christ's mind. We find Jesus' flesh being his word in John 6:51 and 63. We have enclosed an article on John 1:1-18 with lines drawn on it so you can better understand that the 'word' in John 1:1 is God the Father, not Jesus the son.

One other point on John 1:1 is found in John 20:31. “But these are written, that ye might believe Jesus is the Christ, the son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” This is John's reason for writing this whole book of John. His reason was to prove that Jesus was the son of God and not that Jesus was God. One is completely out of context when saying that John 1:1 is saying Jesus was God. That is the opposite in John's purpose for writing this book of John. Let's stay in context throughout this whole book of John by understanding the three reasons that John give for writing this whole book. 1. That Jesus is the Christ. 2. That Jesus is the son of God. 3. That we might have life by believing what he wrote.

By:

Eddie Baker
Rt. 2, Box 137
Moberly, MO 65270
Ph # 816 263 9709

Yahchanan [John] 1:18 – No man has seen Yahweh at any time; the only begotten son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared [Him – Yahweh] (A.K.J.V. – Edited and with Yahweh's Name Restored).

Webmaster's Comment:

Father Yahweh's word is just that, Father Yahweh's word. Father Yahweh's word is not a separate being apart from Himself. Yahshua is not his and our Father Yahweh's word, but the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. This is why his name/title is called “The Word of Yahweh” in Revelation. Note that this does not say that Yahshua “IS
” or “WAS” the word of Yahweh! Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach that Yahshua “IS” or “WAS” the word of Yahweh or that Yahshua “IS” “God”!

Many are deceived into believing that the “word” (that has been deliberately CAPITALIZED on and PERSONIFIED in translation) spoken of in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is literally Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself that pre-existed as His son Yahshua. This was done to confuse one into believing in a “Triune God”.

Note John 1:1 in the following translations which does not give personification of Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself:

1. “All things were made by it” (Tyndale, 1534)

http://www.bible.cc/hebrews/1-2.htm
CLICK HERE to see John 1:1 in Tyndale New Testament.

2. “The worde … All things were made by the same” (Coverdale, 1535)
3. “All things were made by it and without it nothing was made” (Matthews’ Bible, 1537)
4. “All things were made by it and without it was made nothing that was made” (The Great Bible, 1539)
5. “All things were made by it” (Taverner NT, 1540)
6. “All things were made by it”(Whittingham, 1557)
7. “All things were made by it” (The Geneva Bible, 1560)
8. “All things were made by it” (Bishops’ Bible, 1568)
9. “All things were made by it” (Tomson NT, 1607)
10. “Nor can anything be produced that has been made without it [Reason]” (John LeClerc, 1701)
11. “The word … through the same all things were made” (Mortimer, 1761)
12. “In the beginning was Wisdom … All things were made by it” (Wakefield NT, 1791)
13. “The Word … All things were made by it” (Alexander Campbell, founder of the Church of Christ, 1826)
14. “The Word … All things were formed by it” (Dickinson, A New and Corrected Version of the NT, 1833)
15. “All things were made by it” (Barnard, 1847)
16. “Through it [the logos] everything was done” (Wilson, Emphatic Diaglott, 1864)

In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God. This was in the Beginning with GOD. Through it every thing was done; and without it not even one thing was done, which has been done.

17. “All things through it arose into being” (Folsom, 1869)
18. “All things were made through it” (Sharpe, Revision of the Authorized English Version, 1898)
19. “All things were made by the Love thought” (Goddard, 1916)
20. “All things came into being in this God-conception and apart from it came not anything into being that came into being” (Overbury, 1925)
21. “All came into being through it” (Knoch, 1926)
22. “The word … the living expression of the Father’s thought” (Blount, Half Hours with John’sGospel, 1930)
23. “The word was god” (C.C. Torrey, The Four Gospels, 1933)
24. “Through the divine reason all things came into being” (Wade, The Documents of the NT Translated, 1934)
25. “Without it nothing created sprang into existence” (Johannes Greber, 1937)
26. “It was in the beginning with God, by its activity all things came into being” (Martin Dibelius, The Message of Jesus Christ, translated by F.C. Grant, 1939)
27. “Through its agency all things came into being and apart from it has not one thing come to be” (William Temple, Archbishop of Canterbury, Readings from St. John’s Gospel, 1939)
28. “The energizing mind was in existence from the very beginning” (Crofts, The Four Gospels, 1949)
29. “First there was the Thought and the Thought was in God … He, him” (Hoare, Translation from the Greek, 1949)
30. “In the beginning God expressed Himself … That personal expression, that word … He” (J.B. Philips, NT in Modern English, 1958)
31. “All was done through it” (Tomanek, 1958)
32. “The Word was the life principle [in creation]” (William Barclay, NT, 1969)
33. “This same idea was at home with God when life began … He” (Jordan, Cottonpatch Version, 1970)
34. “All things became what they are through the Word” (Dale, NT, 1973)
35. “Within the Word was life” (Edington, 1976)
36. “It was his last werd. Ony it come first” (Gospels in Scouse, 1977)
37. “By it everything had being, and without it nothing had being” (Schonfield, The Original NT, 1985)
38. “All things were made through the Word” (Inclusive Language Lectionary, 1986)
39. “In the beginning was the Plan of Yahweh. All things were done according to it” (Hawkins, Book of Yahweh, 1987)
40. “All things happened through it” (Gaus, Unvarnished NT, 1991)
41. “In the beginning was the divine word and wisdom … everything came to be by means of it” (Robert Miller, The Complete Gospels, Annotated Scholars’ Version, 1992

Clearly Yahshua is the spokesman of Father Yahweh's word in this last time period!

http://www.bible.cc/hebrews/1-2.htm

November 29, 2011 at 11:56 pm#266331

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 30 2011,07:18)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2011,00:48)

Gene.

The first to be WITH God was the Word.
Before creation God created all through his Word.
Jesus is the Word of God who later came in the flesh for our sakes.

Read it yourself:

See it was the son that God made all things through and in case you doubt the above text, here is another:

How much clearer does one have to be Gene.
Anoint Your eyes with eye salve that you may see.
Ye of little faith. Why do you doubt the scriptures?

You see Gene.
I can boldly say that God made all things through him and for him.
And you cannot. You can say it, and then you need to say, BUT….

When you say BUT….., you are really saying it is not true.

e.g.,
Q: Can you pay me that $500 you owe me.
A: Yes, BUT….

It means no right, because the but of the sentence will contain an excuse why you cannot.

So you deny that God made all things through the son, and we proclaim it.
Gene, you are so full of your own understanding that I even doubt my message to you will have any impact.

But that is the problem with man right there.
When light shines into their darkness, they flee the light.

t8,

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach “Jesus is the Word of God who later came in the flesh for our sakes.” This is nothing but a foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine of mere men and a twisting of Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word.

November 29, 2011 at 11:59 pm#266333

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,11:22)

Father Yahweh ALONE created within Adam (mankind – man and woman) a reproductive system and I was BORN THOUGH this process and was not directly created by Father Yahweh.

I see. So it's okay with you that you were created THROUGH “a process”, but not THROUGH Adam and Eve themselves?

Frank, if you ARE a creation of God, then God created you. And if God did NOT create you DIRECTLY, then He did it INDIRECTLY. And that means THROUGH other agencies. Adam was one of those agencies, Noah was one, your mother was one, and, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES, Jesus was one.

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,11:22)

The process by which a man and a woman come together, have sexual intercourse and bear children is called procreating, not creating.

The word “creating” hidden within the word “procreating” doesn't tell you something?

From Dictionary.com:
pro·cre·ate /ˈproʊkriˌeɪt/ Show Spelled [proh-kree-eyt] Show IPA verb, -at·ed, -at·ing.
verb (used with object)
1. to beget or generate (offspring).
2. to produce; bring into being.
verb (used without object)
3. to beget offspring.
4. to produce; bring into being.

As we today understand it, the word “procreate” has to do with sexual relations between a male and a female of a species. But the word really just means the same thing as “created”, and that is: to produce; bring into being. We INFER “sex”, but the word doesn't necessarily mean “bring into being EXCLUSIVELY by sexual intercourse”.

(In Genesis 4:1, Eve said that with the help of Jehovah, she CREATED a man……….ie: a man was created by Jehovah THROUGH her.)

November 30, 2011 at 12:09 am#266334

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,16:56)

t8,

Actually, I just clearly showed you and Gene that scripture DOES teach this.

Read John 1:30. Then read 1:29 to see who those words were said about.

Now read 1:15. Then read 1:14 to see who those words were said about.

They are the same words said about the same Lord. But in one verse, that Lord is called “Jesus”, and in the other verse, that same Lord is called “The Word”.

So Frank, scripture DOES teach exactly what we've been claiming. In fact, it teaches this in many places and in many different ways. But what I've just shown you above should be the last nail in the non-preexistent coffin , because I can't see any way for you to deny the clear scriptural words written.

Now the question for you, Gene and the other non-preexisters is this: Will you ACCEPT those SCRIPTURAL words? Or will you continue to teach something you now know to be false?

Which will YOU do, Frank?

November 30, 2011 at 12:11 am#266335

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,16:49)

WHO IS THE WORD?
(John 1:1)

In John 1:1 the writer is very plain in telling us who the 'word' was. He says the word was God.

Actually, he says the Word was WITH God. God cannot possibly be WITH God, Frank.

What 1:1 REALLY says is, “the logos was with THE god, and was a god”.

Frank, John 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.

November 30, 2011 at 12:19 am#266338

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,09:59)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,11:22)

Father Yahweh ALONE created within Adam (mankind – man and woman) a reproductive system and I was BORN THOUGH this process and was not directly created by Father Yahweh.

I see. So it's okay with you that you were created THROUGH “a process”, but not THROUGH Adam and Eve themselves?

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,11:22)

The process by which a man and a woman come together, have sexual intercourse and bear children is called procreating, not creating.

The word “creating” hidden within the word “procreating” doesn't tell you something?

(In Genesis 4:1, Eve said that with the help of Jehovah, she CREATED a man……….ie: a man was created by Jehovah THROUGH her.)

Mike,

I have previously made known to you that I was not CREATED, but was BORN.

You believe that Yahshua created and I do not. I believe that Father Yahweh “ALONE” and “BY HIMSELF” created the Heavens and the Earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM and that His son Yahshua never once proclaimed that he had created ANYTHING!

Quote

And if God did NOT create you DIRECTLY, then He did it INDIRECTLY. And that means THROUGH other agencies. Adam was one of those agencies, Noah was one, your mother was one, and, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES, Jesus was one.

I do not believe that Yahshua was a creating agent of his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. Now is it your position that I should also believe that Adam, Noah, and my mother were also creating agents and pre-existed with Father Yahweh in the beginning? POPPYCOCK!

November 30, 2011 at 12:30 am#266339

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,10:11)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,16:49)

WHO IS THE WORD?
(John 1:1)

In John 1:1 the writer is very plain in telling us who the 'word' was. He says the word was God.

Actually, he says the Word was WITH God. God cannot possibly be WITH God, Frank.

What 1:1 REALLY says is, “the logos was with THE god, and was a god”.

Frank, John 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.

Mike,

No, Yahchanan 1:1 does not speak of two beings! Father Yahweh's word is not a separate being apart from Himself! Father Yahweh's word most certainly is not a “God”!

Father Yahweh's word was with Him just as my word is with me. I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness!

November 30, 2011 at 12:35 am#266340

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,09:49)

t8,

WHO IS THE WORD?

In John 1:14, this same 'word' that was God the Father (because the word was in the Father) produced His son Jesus.

Hi Frank, you are well studied and are rightly dividing “The Word” of God.

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)

The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28)

1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

November 30, 2011 at 12:48 am#266342

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,10:11)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,16:49)

WHO IS THE WORD?
(John 1:1)

In John 1:1 the writer is very plain in telling us who the 'word' was. He says the word was God.

Actually, he says the Word was WITH God. God cannot possibly be WITH God, Frank.

What 1:1 REALLY says is, “the logos was with THE god, and was a god”.

Frank, John 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.

Mike,

I believe that Father Yahweh's word was with Him and that His word had power, might and strength. This is the initial Hebrew meaning of the word that has been erroneously translated as “God” or “god”. I am certainly no mere “LORD [BAAL] GOD [GAD – pronounced 'gawd'] worshiper!

BAAL GAD
“LORD GOD”

Bible Dictionary

Baal definition

lord. (1.) The name appropriated to the principal male god of the Phoenicians. It is found in several places in the plural BAALIM (Judg. 2:11; 10:10; 1 Kings 18:18; Jer. 2:23; Hos. 2:17). Baal is identified with Molech (Jer. 19:5). It was known to the Israelites as Baal-peor (Num. 25:3; Deut. 4:3), was worshipped till the time of Samuel (1 Sam 7:4), and was afterwards the religion of the ten tribes in the time of Ahab (1 Kings 16:31-33; 18:19, 22). It prevailed also for a time in the kingdom of Judah (2 Kings 8:27; comp. 11:18; 16:3; 2 Chr. 28:2), till finally put an end to by the severe discipline of the Captivity (Zeph. 1:4-6). The priests of Baal were in great numbers (1 Kings 18:19), and of various classes (2 Kings 10:19). Their mode of offering sacrifices is described in 1 Kings 18:25-29. The sun-god, under the general title of Baal, or “lord,” was the chief object of worship of the Canaanites. Each locality had its special Baal, and the various local Baals were summed up under the name of Baalim, or “lords.” Each Baal had a wife, who was a colourless reflection of himself. (2.) A Benjamite, son of Jehiel, the progenitor of the Gibeonites (1 Chr. 8:30; 9:36). (3.) The name of a place inhabited by the Simeonites, the same probably as Baal-ath-beer (1 Chr. 4:33; Josh. 19:8). – Easton's Bible Dictionary 1897

November 30, 2011 at 12:50 am#266343

terraricca

Participant

frank

Quote

Father Yahweh's word was with Him just as my word is with me. I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness!

paid attention that it does not say WORDS it say THE WORD Jn 1;1 ,so if he was talking about his own words it would be plurial ,and it is totally non sens to think that John would talk about the speaking words that God may or may have not said ,

you have an preconcieved believe and so it make it difficult to see the truth.

Pierre

November 30, 2011 at 12:50 am#266344

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,10:35)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,09:49)

t8,

WHO IS THE WORD?

In John 1:14, this same 'word' that was God the Father (because the word was in the Father) produced His son Jesus.

Hi Frank, you are well studied and are rightly dividing “The Word” of God.

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)

The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28)

1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

Great Scriptural references! Thanks!

November 30, 2011 at 12:59 am#266345