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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 27 2011,19:49) Mike, Look at Isaiah 9:6 the following translation:
he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
How do you conclude that Father Yahweh called him this…………..
Okay Frank, I stand corrected. But it was the Father who foretold that Jesus WOULD BE called “god”, right? And then we have John actually calling him “god”. Prophesy fulfilled, right? Not according to you, for it seems that you are trying to pretend that John, or the subsequent people who translated his gospel, got it wrong.Jesus is called “god” three times in John's gospel – twice by John and once by Thomas. Do you assert that those scriptural words are counterfeit?
Also, when Jehovah foretold that Jesus would be called “god”, do you think He was angry about this? It seems to me that the Father was pleased that His Messiah would someday be called “mighty god” and “wonderful counselor”. What do you think about it?
peace,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 29 2011,11:56) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 29 2011,17:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2011,13:51) frank Quote Look at Isaiah 9:6 the following translation: he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
How do you conclude that Father Yahweh called him this or anything else when in fact it does not say that Father Yahweh called him this. No, it does not say “he will be called by Yahweh Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
————–
I have a question for you ,why would God be called Prince ?? or wonderful Counselor
is this an upgrade or a downgrade in position ??
or why should God be turn into a child ??helpless in need of a women and a man to survive ??and why would he received a government ? and who will given it to him ?? is God not the owner of his own creation ?? and who bring no end to his government ?? is it NOT GOD ?
Pierre
Peace greetings Pierre,I believe that it was Mike who said that Yahweh [“God”] called 'Jesus' “Prince or wonderful Counselor” in Isayah 9:6 which I did not agree with him about.
Does Isayah 9:6 Proclaim Yahshua To Be Yahweh?
I myself do not believe that Yahweh [“God”] was “[turned] into a child ??helpless in need of a women and a man to survive” and I do not believe that Mike does either if I am reading him correctly. The same I believe would be true with the rest of what you have said:
“and why would he received a government ? and who will given it to him ?? is God not the owner of his own creation ?? and who bring no end to his government ?? is it NOT GOD ?”
I do not espouse to the “Jesus IS God!” doctrine and do not believe that Father Yahweh's son Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and was a creator or co-creator with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. I believe these to be false doctrines of deceit.
frankI do not think that Mike believes that God the father his Christ ,but scriptures says that Christ is a god or has the tittle of god to his name ,and this is true ,
now Christ preexisted his birth as man ,because no men born of men seed can pay the price for sin,and so canceling out dead.
also creation does not start with man creation ,God is the only one that created things but it is God choice to pick the way he does it is it not
the first creation scriptures says is Christ the only begotten son of God ,and then all other creation in their own time came to be ,
it is because of the son trough witch God created all thing ,that the son was the only one that could pay the price for all of creation and restore all things in his father will ,but he add to come and sacrifice himself at the least his human live and only trust his God to be saved ,and now is this not what we have to do, to be save by God,
when all will be done will it not be done by God ? so that all glory goes to God ,and yet their have been many participants to this works to save the world from sin.in witch Christ is the most important stone.
Pierre
Pierre,You have made it quite clear that you do not believe as I do then.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 27 2011,20:07) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 28 2011,13:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2011,10:35) I figure he'll be back to teach the “dozen teachers”.
aka the 12 disciples.
I wana be John OK.
As long as I get to be Peter!
I'M THE ROCK! I'M THE ROCK!
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 28 2011,04:41) Hi Mike, I too believe this is what it takes to reach people that are stuck in their dogmas.
God bless
Ed J
I agree Ed……………I think.
Btw Frank, I fogot to answer one part of your question:
I have been a member of HN for about 2 and a half years.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,14:37) One more point: Shaul, writing to the Hebrews makes it clear that “…he [Yahshua] had to be made like his brothers ([http://www.carelinks.net/doc/oneinchrist-en]1[/URL]) in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to Yahweh, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2:17. Yahshua was a man just like us (Hebrews 2:17).
Frank,Why do you think Paul even made reference to Jesus having to “be made” like his brothers? If Jesus had been nothing but “like his brothers” in the first place, then what was the point of saying what he did?
The whole statement is out of whack with the thought that Jesus was never anything BUT a man. Compare that with the times Jesus was said to be David's offspring……………ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. And then compare those scriptures with Phil 2, where we are told Jesus was existing in the form of God before he was made in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING.
mike
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 29 2011,19:26) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 29 2011,11:56) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 29 2011,17:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2011,13:51) frank Quote Look at Isaiah 9:6 the following translation: he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
How do you conclude that Father Yahweh called him this or anything else when in fact it does not say that Father Yahweh called him this. No, it does not say “he will be called by Yahweh Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
————–
I have a question for you ,why would God be called Prince ?? or wonderful Counselor
is this an upgrade or a downgrade in position ??
or why should God be turn into a child ??helpless in need of a women and a man to survive ??and why would he received a government ? and who will given it to him ?? is God not the owner of his own creation ?? and who bring no end to his government ?? is it NOT GOD ?
Pierre
Peace greetings Pierre,I believe that it was Mike who said that Yahweh [“God”] called 'Jesus' “Prince or wonderful Counselor” in Isayah 9:6 which I did not agree with him about.
Does Isayah 9:6 Proclaim Yahshua To Be Yahweh?
I myself do not believe that Yahweh [“God”] was “[turned] into a child ??helpless in need of a women and a man to survive” and I do not believe that Mike does either if I am reading him correctly. The same I believe would be true with the rest of what you have said:
“and why would he received a government ? and who will given it to him ?? is God not the owner of his own creation ?? and who bring no end to his government ?? is it NOT GOD ?”
I do not espouse to the “Jesus IS God!” doctrine and do not believe that Father Yahweh's son Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and was a creator or co-creator with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. I believe these to be false doctrines of deceit.
frankI do not think that Mike believes that God the father his Christ ,but scriptures says that Christ is a god or has the tittle of god to his name ,and this is true ,
now Christ preexisted his birth as man ,because no men born of men seed can pay the price for sin,and so canceling out dead.
also creation does not start with man creation ,God is the only one that created things but it is God choice to pick the way he does it is it not
the first creation scriptures says is Christ the only begotten son of God ,and then all other creation in their own time came to be ,
it is because of the son trough witch God created all thing ,that the son was the only one that could pay the price for all of creation and restore all things in his father will ,but he add to come and sacrifice himself at the least his human live and only trust his God to be saved ,and now is this not what we have to do, to be save by God,
when all will be done will it not be done by God ? so that all glory goes to God ,and yet their have been many participants to this works to save the world from sin.in witch Christ is the most important stone.
Pierre
Pierre,You have made it quite clear that you do not believe as I do then.
frankQuote You have made it quite clear that you do not believe as I do then. I do believe what scriptures says ,what is it that you do not understand
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,12:25) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 27 2011,19:49) Mike, Look at Isaiah 9:6 the following translation:
he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
How do you conclude that Father Yahweh called him this…………..
Okay Frank, I stand corrected. But it was the Father who foretold that Jesus WOULD BE called “god”, right? And then we have John actually calling him “god”. Prophesy fulfilled, right? Not according to you, for it seems that you are trying to pretend that John, or the subsequent people who translated his gospel, got it wrong.Jesus is called “god” three times in John's gospel – twice by John and once by Thomas. Do you assert that those scriptural words are counterfeit?
Also, when Jehovah foretold that Jesus would be called “god”, do you think He was angry about this? It seems to me that the Father was pleased that His Messiah would someday be called “mighty god” and “wonderful counselor”. What do you think about it?
peace,
mike
Mike,Going along with your line of thinking, is it not quite clear that Yahshua [“Jesus”] is called “God” in the foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine “Jesus IS God!”? I myself do not believe that this is what Isayah 9:6 is saying though.
Does Isayah 9:6 Proclaim Yahshua To Be Yahweh?
Does Isaiah 9:6 Claim That “Jesus is God”?I do not believe that Yahchanan [John] was out to prove that Yahshua was “God” in his writings.
But these are written that you may believe that Yahshua is the Messiah, the son of Yahweh, and that by believing you may have life in his name (Yahchanan [John] 20:31.
I agree that neither Jehovah nor John had the intention of claiming Jesus was “God Almighty”.
But do you deny that Jesus was A god? (Mighty one/One whom should be revered)
It seems that you think Jehovah referred to the false teachings of the Trinitarians in Is 9:6. But why would he lump a false title Jesus would be given in with the totally accurate “wonderful counselor”?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,15:37) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 28 2011,15:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 27 2011,18:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2011,13:32) Hi Frank,
Welcome back! Do you believe that the Messiah was a mere man only?Kathi
Peace greetings Kathi,Well, that all depends on what you mean by “mere”. Yahshua said that he was “a man” or “son of man” and “son of Yahweh”. Note that we also can become sons (daughters, children) of Yahweh. Yahshua is also commonly referred to as the “second Adam” by many. In translation “Adam” is what Yahweh called or named the first two beings that He created in His image, MALE and feMALE or MAN and woMAN.
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the time that Yahweh created mankind, in the image of Yahweh made He them; Male and female created He THEM; and blessed THEM, and called THEIR name Adam, in the time when THEY were created.
Scripture also teaches that Yahshua is the image of Yahweh. The difference between “Adam (male and female)” and Yahshua is that Yahshua was without sin or unblemished. In this aspect Yahshua was unique. Yahshua was also unique in a number of other ways. Note that he is the first fruit of the “first fruits” of those who are raised from the dead (resurrected) and without sin or blemish. In this aspect he was also unique. Yahshua has already been raised from the dead and at this time and sits at the right hand of his and our Father Yahweh in Heaven. In this aspect Yahshua is also unique, since we are looking toward the hope of a future resurrection.
I have noted that many here believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and refer to him and our Father Yahweh by the word 'god'. I myself do not follow in this line of thinking.
I will let you think on this and you can get back to me if you like. You might want to fill me in and be more specific and detailed on why you asked me if I believed if Yahshua “was a mere man ONLY” in your next response to me.
Thank you Frank for more info.When I asked you if you thought Jesus was only a mere man, I meant, was He just a man like all humans, only without sin, in your opinion? Did He become exalted because He was the most righteous man? Could a righteous man die as a sacrifice for another, in your opinion?
Blessings,
Kathi
Peace greetings Kathi,I believe that Yahshua was just a man like all humans.
Simple Scriptural Proof That Yahshua Was Human
Is or was Yahshua a man or “God”? Was he pre-incarnate? Did he pre-exist? What does Scripture teach?
Yahweh Is Eternal
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are Yahweh (Psalms 90:2).
Man Has A Beginning
Man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble (Iyyob 14:1).
Man Lives His Life
He comes forth like a flower and fades away; He flees like a shadow and does not continue (Iyyob 14:2).
Man Dies
So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep (Iyyob 14:12).
Man Is Buried, I.E. Sleeps In The Grave (Sheol or Hades)
Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! (Iyyob 14:3)
Man Will Be Resurrected
If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes (Iyyob 14:14).
Yahshua [“Jesus”] Had A Beginning
Then the malak said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mariam, for you have found favor with Yahweh. “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Yahshua (Lukyah 1:30-31).
Yahshua Lived His Life
And Yahshua increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with Yahweh and men (Lukyah 5:22).
Yahshua Died
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, … 1 Corinthians 15:1-3
Yahshua Was Buried (1 Corinthians 15:4a)
Yahshua Was Resurrected
… and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he was seen by Kepha, then by the twelve. After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep (1 Corinthians 15:4b-6).
A simple and honest reading of Scripture makes it clear that Yahshua was not pre-incarnate or pre-existing. He had a beginning just like us and was, according to Scripture, a man – not “God” and not pre-existent.
One more point: Shaul, writing to the Hebrews makes it clear that “…he [Yahshua] had to be made like his brothers ([http://www.carelinks.net/doc/oneinchrist-en]1[/URL]) in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to Yahweh, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2:17. Yahshua was a man just like us (Hebrews 2:17).
[http://www.carelinks.net/doc/oneinchrist-en](1)[/URL] avdelfo, j adelphos {ad-el-fos'}
Meaning: 1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother 2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman 3) any fellow or man 4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection 5) an associate in employment or office 6) brethren in [Messyah] 6a) his brothers by blood 6b) all men 6c) apostles 6d) [those in Messyah], as those who are exalted to the same [position of status] …
Hi Frank,
Those are good verses and none of them discount the belief in the incarnation.I asked you before if a righteous man could be a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world…what is your opinion and your verses to substantiate that?
Thanks,
K
athiQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,12:33) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,14:37) One more point: Shaul, writing to the Hebrews makes it clear that “…he [Yahshua] had to be made like his brothers ([http://www.carelinks.net/doc/oneinchrist-en]1[/URL]) in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to Yahweh, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2:17. Yahshua was a man just like us (Hebrews 2:17).
Frank,Why do you think Paul even made reference to Jesus having to “be made” like his brothers? If Jesus had been nothing but “like his brothers” in the first place, then what was the point of saying what he did?
The whole statement is out of whack with the thought that Jesus was never anything BUT a man. Compare that with the times Jesus was said to be David's offspring……………ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. And then compare those scriptures with Phil 2, where we are told Jesus was existing in the form of God before he was made in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING.
mike
Mike,Since you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth, what is it that you believe he pre-existed as, a “god”, “an angel” or what? Do you believe that “gods” and “angels” can die? Do you believe that Yahshua was a creator or a co-creator with Father Yahweh in the beginning? If so, then you must not believe that Father Yahweh ALONE created the Heavens and the Earth and ALL things in them as He said He did, right? Do you also not believe Yahweh when He said that there was no “god (el, eloah, elohim)” beside Him in his creating the Heavens and the Earth and ALL things in them? Why is it that Yahshua is never recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as saying or proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING? Why is it not also recorded there his proclaiming or saying “I am “God” or “a god”? Do you believe that Father Yahweh sent a being into the world from Heaven that was not completely obedient to Yahweh? Is that not “out of whack” to you? If so, why is it recorded in the so-called “New Testament” that Yahshua leaned obedience through suffering? If you believe that Yahshua learned obedience through suffering before he came to Earth from Heaven, please explain to why he suffered in Heaven learning to be obedient to His and our Father Yahweh.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 29 2011,13:10) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,15:37) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 28 2011,15:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 27 2011,18:54) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2011,13:32) Hi Frank,
Welcome back! Do you believe that the Messiah was a mere man only?Kathi
Peace greetings Kathi,Well, that all depends on what you mean by “mere”. Yahshua said that he was “a man” or “son of man” and “son of Yahweh”. Note that we also can become sons (daughters, children) of Yahweh. Yahshua is also commonly referred to as the “second Adam” by many. In translation “Adam” is what Yahweh called or named the first two beings that He created in His image, MALE and feMALE or MAN and woMAN.
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the time that Yahweh created mankind, in the image of Yahweh made He them; Male and female created He THEM; and blessed THEM, and called THEIR name Adam, in the time when THEY were created.
Scripture also teaches that Yahshua is the image of Yahweh. The difference between “Adam (male and female)” and Yahshua is that Yahshua was without sin or unblemished. In this aspect Yahshua was unique. Yahshua was also unique in a number of other ways. Note that he is the first fruit of the “first fruits” of those who are raised from the dead (resurrected) and without sin or blemish. In this aspect he was also unique. Yahshua has already been raised from the dead and at this time and sits at the right hand of his and our Father Yahweh in Heaven. In this aspect Yahshua is also unique, since we are looking toward the hope of a future resurrection.
I have noted that many here believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and refer to him and our Father Yahweh by the word 'god'. I myself do not follow in this line of thinking.
I will let you think on this and you can get back to me if you like. You might want to fill me in and be more specific and detailed on why you asked me if I believed if Yahshua “was a mere man ONLY” in your next response to me.
Thank you Frank for more info.When I asked you if you thought Jesus was only a mere man, I meant, was He just a man like all humans, only without sin, in your opinion? Did He become exalted because He was the most righteous man? Could a righteous man die as a sacrifice for another, in your opinion?
Blessings,
Kathi
Peace greetings Kathi,I believe that Yahshua was just a man like all humans.
Simple Scriptural Proof That Yahshua Was Human
Is or was Yahshua a man or “God”? Was he pre-incarnate? Did he pre-exist? What does Scripture teach?
Yahweh Is Eternal
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are Yahweh (Psalms 90:2).
Man Has A Beginning
Man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble (Iyyob 14:1).
Man Lives His Life
He comes forth like a flower and fades away; He flees like a shadow and does not continue (Iyyob 14:2).
Man Dies
So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep (Iyyob 14:12).
Man Is Buried, I.E. Sleeps In The Grave (Sheol or Hades)
Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! (Iyyob 14:3)
Man Will Be Resurrected
If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes (Iyyob 14:14).
Yahshua [“Jesus”] Had A Beginning
Then the malak said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mariam, for you have found favor with Yahweh. “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Yahshua (Lukyah 1:30-31).
Yahshua Lived His Life
And Yahshua increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with Yahweh and men (Lukyah 5:22).
Yahshua Died
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, … 1 Corinthians 15:1-3
Yahshua Was Buried (1 Corinthians 15:4a)
Yahshua Was Resurrected
… and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he was seen by Kepha, then by the twelve. After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep (1 Corinthians 15:4b-6).
A simple and honest reading of Scripture makes it clear that Yahshua was not pre-incarnate or pre-existing. He had a beginning just like us and was, according to Scripture, a man – not “God” and not pre-existent.
One more point: Shaul, writing to the Hebrews makes it clear that “…he [Yahshua] had to be made like his brothers ([http://www.carelinks.net/doc/oneinchrist-en]1[/URL]) in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to Yahweh, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2:17. Yahshua was a man just like us (Hebrews 2:17).
[http://www.carelinks.net/doc/oneinchrist-en](1)[/URL] avdelfo, j adelphos {ad-el-fos'}
Meaning: 1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother 2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman 3) any fellow or man 4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection 5) an associate in employment or office 6) brethren in [Messyah] 6a) his brothers by blood 6b) all men 6c) apostles 6d) [those in Messyah], as those who are exalted to the same [position of status] …
Hi Frank,
Those are good verses and none of them discount the belief in
the incarnation.I asked you before if a righteous man could be a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world…what is your opinion and your verses to substantiate that?
Thanks,
Kathi
Kathi,Where in Scripture does it ever mention anything about “incarnation” in reference to Yahshua?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,13:00) I agree that neither Jehovah nor John had the intention of claiming Jesus was “God Almighty”. But do you deny that Jesus was A god? (Mighty one/One whom should be revered)
It seems that you think Jehovah referred to the false teachings of the Trinitarians in Is 9:6. But why would he lump a false title Jesus would be given in with the totally accurate “wonderful counselor”?
Mike,This is why I did not come here to discuss of argue with those like you. As I had said before, I see such discussion or arguing as never ending that I have no desire to get involved in. I simply came here to see who might have visit my web page from this forum and as you can see from my initial post I was only interested in meeting people that believe as I do. I have not the slightest desire to meet people like you that have nothing but a doctrinal ax to grind. I am simply stating what it is that I believe and its seems that you can not simply deal with what it is that I believe. For those interested in what it is that I and many others believe, please see my web pages and sites linked at:
Frank,
Phil 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Boy, that is a lot of questions for one post.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Since you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth, what is it that you believe he pre-existed as, a “god”, “an angel” or what?
An angel of God. In fact, the FIRST angel of God. (Remember that in Biblical times, angels were also referred to as gods.)Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Do you believe that “gods” and “angels” can die
God Almighty cannot die. Any being He created can be destroyed – including angels.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Do you believe that Yahshua was a creator or a co-creator with Father Yahweh in the beginning?
I believe what the scriptures state: That Jehovah alone created everything, and He did that THROUGH His only begotten Son. The same way God alone created YOU, but He did that THROUGH Jesus AND your parents.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Do you also not believe Yahweh when He said that there was no “god (el, eloah, elohim)” beside Him……..
I believe Him when he said there is no god APART FROM Him. Just like I believe Him when He said there was no SAVIOR apart from Him. Yet we know that Jehovah Himself SENT other saviors, right? Frank, one doesn't get the title “God OF gods” if there exist no other gods for Him to be the God OF.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Why is it that Yahshua is never recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as saying or proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING?
Because Jesus never did create one single thing. (Unless you consider the whip he “created” out of cords.)Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Why is it not also recorded there his proclaiming or saying “I am “God” or “a god”?
He never claimed to be God Most High because he isn't God Most High. As far as the other, he is the one who pointed out that even men to whom the word of God came were called “gods”. He never said, “I am a prophet of God” either, but we know he was, right? Nor did he claim to be an angel of God, yet we know he is. Etc.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:24)
Do you believe that Father Yahweh sent a being into the world from Heaven that was not completely obedient to Yahweh?
Why would you assume that spiritual beings in heaven are automatically obedient to God? You have heard of Satan, haven't you? Any spiritual being in heaven has the same exact choices we have when it comes to obeying their Creator. God did not create robots, but beings with FREE WILL. Jesus still to this day could revolt against his God if he chose to. He won't do it, but he has the free will to do so.Anything else, Frank? Oh, and were you intending to address MY points? Like why Paul would point out that Jesus had to “be made” like his brothers if there was no chance he never was anything but like his brothers? Or why he used the phrasing “according to the flesh” in reference to Jesus' HUMAN ancestry?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,12:27) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 27 2011,20:07) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 28 2011,13:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2011,10:35) I figure he'll be back to teach the “dozen teachers”.
aka the 12 disciples.
I wana be John OK.
As long as I get to be Peter! I'M THE ROCK! I'M THE ROCK!
OK, no problem.
Your the one who stepped out of the boat and started to sink.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,13:00) I agree that neither Jehovah nor John had the intention of claiming Jesus was “God Almighty”. But do you deny that Jesus was A god? (Mighty one/One whom should be revered)
It seems that you think Jehovah referred to the false teachings of the Trinitarians in Is 9:6. But why would he lump a false title Jesus would be given in with the totally accurate “wonderful counselor”?
Mike,This is why I did not come here to discuss of argue with those like you. As I had said before, I see such discussion or arguing as never ending that I have no desire to get involved in. I simply came here to see who might have visit my web page from this forum and as you can see from my initial post I was only interested in meeting people that believe as I do. I have not the slightest desire to meet people like you that have nothing but a doctrinal ax to grind. I am simply stating what it is that I believe and its seems that you can not simply deal with what it is that I believe.
To what do you refer? To the fact that you can't answer my points?It seems to me that if someone is showing you scriptures that REFUTE what you believe, you have two choices:
1. Bury your head in the sand and keep repeating to yourself, “I am right, I am right”.
2. Address those scriptural points with an open mind and the realization that just maybe, you could be mistaken or overlooking something.
It seems to me that you came here to find more people who think like you to surround yourself with. I suppose Satan worshippers could also seek out others who believe like they do – but that doesn't mean they're right.
Frank, why surround yourself with people who tell you what your itching ears want to hear? Why not discuss this subject openly and honestly – letting the scriptures be your guide?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 29 2011,13:41) I was only interested in meeting people that believe as I do.
Does sound a bit like the last days when people heap teachers of their choice to satisfy their own perspective? Of course you may well listen to others who do not agree in case you need to be corrected. Hopefully that is the case.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 28 2011,22:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,12:27) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 27 2011,20:07) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 28 2011,13:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2011,10:35) I figure he'll be back to teach the “dozen teachers”.
aka the 12 disciples.
I wana be John OK.
As long as I get to be Peter! I'M THE ROCK! I'M THE ROCK!
OK, no problem.
Your the one who stepped out of the boat and started to sink.
Doh!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,15:20) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 28 2011,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2011,13:00) I agree that neither Jehovah nor John had the intention of claiming Jesus was “God Almighty”. But do you deny that Jesus was A god? (Mighty one/One whom should be revered)
It seems that you think Jehovah referred to the false teachings of the Trinitarians in Is 9:6. But why would he lump a false title Jesus would be given in with the totally accurate “wonderful counselor”?
Mike,This is why I did not come here to discuss of argue with those like you. As I had said before, I see such discussion or arguing as never ending that I have no desire to get involved in. I simply came here to see who might have visit my web page from this forum and as you can see from my initial post I was only interested in meeting people that believe as I do. I have not the slightest desire to meet people like you that have nothing but a doctrinal ax to grind. I am simply stating what it is that I believe and its seems that you can not simply deal with what it is that I believe.
To what do you refer? To the fact that you can't answer my points?It seems to me that if someone is showing you scriptures that REFUTE what you believe, you have two choices:
1. Bury your head in the sand and keep repeating to yourself, “I am right, I am right”.
2. Address those scriptural points with an open mind and the realization that just maybe, you could be mistaken or overlooking something.
It seems to me that you came here to find more people who think like you to surround yourself with. I suppose Satan worshippers could also seek out others who believe like they do – but that doesn't mean they're right.
Frank, why surround yourself with people who tell you what your itching ears want to hear? Why not discuss this subject openly and honestly – letting the scriptures be your guide?
peace and love,
mike
Mike,As I have said I have no disire to answer your points, since I clearly said that I did not come here to dicusss anything with you or anyone like you. I have yet to have anyone show me Scripture that refutes what it is that I believe. That is what I said, I came here to find people who believe as I do. Hmm! Now you find something wrong with those who want to find someone who believes as they do? Why would I want to surround myself with people who do not believe as I do? I want to hear the truth, not listen to a bunch of fools spouting lies, especially a fool like you who insists that I have only two chioces. I also have no desire to discuss any subject of Scripture with the like of you. Why would I have any desire to throw my pearls before swine and dogs to be trampled under foot?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 31 2011,05:56)
I have yet to have anyone show me Scripture that refutes what it is that I believe. That is what I said, I came here to find people who believe as I do. Hmm! Now you find something wrong with those who want to find someone who believes as they do? Why would I want to surround myself with people who do not believe as I do? I want to hear the truth, not listen to a bunch of fools spouting lies, especially a fool like you who insists that I have only two chioces. I also have no desire to discuss any subject of Scripture with the like of you. Why would I have any desire to throw my pearls before swine and dogs to be trampled under foot?
Hi Frank,What is it that you believe?
Perhaps you can start a thread
and explain what it is you believe?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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