Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,18:12)

Hi Mike: The discussion about Abram and his name is a diversion which has nothing to do with Philippians 2.

This has everything to do with your assertion that Jesus wasn't “Jesus” yet, so Phil 2 couldn't have been about him until he WAS “Jesus”.  And what I've pointed out to you is that we can speak of the President being born in Hawaii even though he wasn't yet the President when he was born.  If you don't push your point, I will relent from showing you that it is not really a point at all.  Agreed?  

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,18:12)

And I did not say that he stopped being in the form of God during his ministry on earth as Lord and Christ,

Well then let me ask you directly, just so we're clear:

Marty, did Jesus stop being “in the form of God” during his ministry?

peace,
mike

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,11:56)

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,17:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,08:02) Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) Hi Mike: Jesus existed in the heart of God to be manifest to humanity in his timing, and Jesus was asking God to glorifiy him with the glory that was foreseen that he would have with the Father in his exalted position as head of the church. Ah, but here's another chink in your armor, Marty.  First, you assume that Jesus was asking for glory that was foreseen he would eventually have.  But that's not even close to what the scripture actually says, is it?  Nope!  Jesus is asking to be glorified again with the glory HE HAD.  Get it?  HE HAD!  Not “glory that I was PREDESTINED TO SOMEDAY HAVE”, but glory “I ALREADY HAD”. Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) He says with the glory that I had because God had forseen this. Whether or not GOD had “foreseen” this glory, Jesus couldn’t have rightfully called a glory that “God had foreseen” a glory that “I HAD”, could he? Right now, maybe God is already seeing the glory YOU will someday have when you finally see the truth about Jesus' pre-existence.  But you couldn’t right now call that “the glory I HAD”, could you? Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) And God, did grant his request.  Did he not say that “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto him”, and that “No man can come to the Father but by him”? Sounds like to me that he granted his request. Chink in the armor #2, Marty.  If God TRULY granted Jesus' request, and sent him back to the glory HE HAD, then Jesus would right now be a thought in God's heart without a will, mind or emotions.  Because THAT is the glory that YOU claim Jesus was talking about. mike Hi Mike: Just this question.  According to you, Jesus is asking to be glorified with the glory that he had in his pre-existent state.   Did he already have the glory that God gave him as described by the following scripture? Philippians 2:8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. According to you, he already had this glory in his pre-existant state.  Isn't that what you are saying? Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, No, Jesus was raised to an even higher glory than the one he previously had – the one he asked to be returned to. Because of what he did, he NOW was worthy enough to open the scroll – apparently something he was not worthy of before, since they link his worthiness to his sufferings on earth. Now, please DIRECTLY address the shortcomings I've pointed out in your understanding. mike

No, Mike:

You said that he was asking to be returned to the glory he had with the Father before the world was.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,19:38)

No, Mike: You said that he was asking to be returned to the glory he had with the Father before the world was.

And your point is……………….?

That IS what he asked for. But behold, he was exalted even higher than what he asked for. The same thing happened to Solomon, right?

Now please DIRECTLY address the flaws in your understanding that I've pointed out to you, and stop playing around.

mike

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,12:49)

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,19:38) No, Mike: You said that he was asking to be returned to the glory he had with the Father before the world was. And your point is……………….?   That IS what he asked for.  But behold, he was exalted even higher than what he asked for.  The same thing happened to Solomon, right? Now please DIRECTLY address the flaws in your understanding that I've pointed out to you, and stop playing around.   mike

No, Mike:

The flaws are not in my understanding, they are in yours when you fail to acknowledge the truth when you are shown the truth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 06 2011,19:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,12:49) Quote (942767 @ June 05 2011,19:38) No, Mike: You said that he was asking to be returned to the glory he had with the Father before the world was. And your point is……………….?   That IS what he asked for.  But behold, he was exalted even higher than what he asked for.  The same thing happened to Solomon, right? Now please DIRECTLY address the flaws in your understanding that I've pointed out to you, and stop playing around.   mike No, Mike: The flaws are not in my understanding, they are in yours when you fail to acknowledge the truth when you are shown the truth. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

play play around the cercle

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,15:02)

Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) Hi Mike: Jesus existed in the heart of God to be manifest to humanity in his timing, and Jesus was asking God to glorifiy him with the glory that was foreseen that he would have with the Father in his exalted position as head of the church. Ah, but here's another chink in your armor, Marty.  First, you assume that Jesus was asking for glory that was foreseen he would eventually have.  But that's not even close to what the scripture actually says, is it?  Nope!  Jesus is asking to be glorified again with the glory HE HAD.  Get it?  HE HAD!  Not “glory that I was PREDESTINED TO SOMEDAY HAVE”, but glory “I ALREADY HAD”. Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) He says with the glory that I had because God had forseen this. Whether or not GOD had “foreseen” this glory, Jesus couldn’t have rightfully called a glory that “God had foreseen” a glory that “I HAD”, could he? Right now, maybe God is already seeing the glory YOU will someday have when you finally see the truth about Jesus' pre-existence.  But you couldn’t right now call that “the glory I HAD”, could you? Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) And God, did grant his request.  Did he not say that “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto him”, and that “No man can come to the Father but by him”? Sounds like to me that he granted his request. Chink in the armor #2, Marty.  If God TRULY granted Jesus' request, and sent him back to the glory HE HAD, then Jesus would right now be a thought in God's heart without a will, mind or emotions.  Because THAT is the glory that YOU claim Jesus was talking about. mike

Let's start with these chinks in your armor, Marty. You avoided dealing with them by diverting to other things. Please address the points I made in the above post.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,12:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,15:02) Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) Hi Mike: Jesus existed in the heart of God to be manifest to humanity in his timing, and Jesus was asking God to glorifiy him with the glory that was foreseen that he would have with the Father in his exalted position as head of the church. Ah, but here's another chink in your armor, Marty.  First, you assume that Jesus was asking for glory that was foreseen he would eventually have.  But that's not even close to what the scripture actually says, is it?  Nope!  Jesus is asking to be glorified again with the glory HE HAD.  Get it?  HE HAD!  Not “glory that I was PREDESTINED TO SOMEDAY HAVE”, but glory “I ALREADY HAD”. Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) He says with the glory that I had because God had forseen this. Whether or not GOD had “foreseen” this glory, Jesus couldn’t have rightfully called a glory that “God had foreseen” a glory that “I HAD”, could he? Right now, maybe God is already seeing the glory YOU will someday have when you finally see the truth about Jesus' pre-existence.  But you couldn’t right now call that “the glory I HAD”, could you? Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) And God, did grant his request.  Did he not say that “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto him”, and that “No man can come to the Father but by him”? Sounds like to me that he granted his request. Chink in the armor #2, Marty.  If God TRULY granted Jesus' request, and sent him back to the glory HE HAD, then Jesus would right now be a thought in God's heart without a will, mind or emotions.  Because THAT is the glory that YOU claim Jesus was talking about. mike Let's start with these chinks in your armor, Marty.  You avoided dealing with them by diverting to other things.  Please address the points I made in the above post.

Hi Mike:

I will simply answer you by this scripture emphasizing what is in the bold:

Hebrews 4:3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works

In the mind and heart of God, Jesus had the glory. In other words, it was a done deal, finished from the foundation of the world.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 08 2011,08:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,12:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,15:02) Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) Hi Mike: Jesus existed in the heart of God to be manifest to humanity in his timing, and Jesus was asking God to glorifiy him with the glory that was foreseen that he would have with the Father in his exalted position as head of the church. Ah, but here's another chink in your armor, Marty.  First, you assume that Jesus was asking for glory that was foreseen he would eventually have.  But that's not even close to what the scripture actually says, is it?  Nope!  Jesus is asking to be glorified again with the glory HE HAD.  Get it?  HE HAD!  Not “glory that I was PREDESTINED TO SOMEDAY HAVE”, but glory “I ALREADY HAD”. Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) He says with the glory that I had because God had forseen this. Whether or not GOD had “foreseen” this glory, Jesus couldn’t have rightfully called a glory that “God had foreseen” a glory that “I HAD”, could he? Right now, maybe God is already seeing the glory YOU will someday have when you finally see the truth about Jesus' pre-existence.  But you couldn’t right now call that “the glory I HAD”, could you? Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) And God, did grant his request.  Did he not say that “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto him”, and that “No man can come to the Father but by him”? Sounds like to me that he granted his request. Chink in the armor #2, Marty.  If God TRULY granted Jesus' request, and sent him back to the glory HE HAD, then Jesus would right now be a thought in God's heart without a will, mind or emotions.  Because THAT is the glory that YOU claim Jesus was talking about. mike Let's start with these chinks in your armor, Marty.  You avoided dealing with them by diverting to other things.  Please address the points I made in the above post. Hi Mike: I will simply answer you by this scripture emphasizing what is in the bold: Hebrews 4:3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works In the mind and heart of God, Jesus had the glory.  In other words, it was a done deal, finished from the foundation of the world. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

the verses you quoted you have apply them wrongly;

Heb 4:4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.”
Heb 4:5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
Heb 4:6 It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience.
Heb 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

we know that God rest on the six day of creation after man and women were created ,but this is only related to the earth

we know the other rest Paul talks about is related to the rest of the gospel.

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2011,08:05)

Quote (942767 @ June 08 2011,08:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,12:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,15:02) Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) Hi Mike: Jesus existed in the heart of God to be manifest to humanity in his timing, and Jesus was asking God to glorifiy him with the glory that was foreseen that he would have with the Father in his exalted position as head of the church. Ah, but here's another chink in your armor, Marty.  First, you assume that Jesus was asking for glory that was foreseen he would eventually have.  But that's not even close to what the scripture actually says, is it?  Nope!  Jesus is asking to be glorified again with the glory HE HAD.  Get it?  HE HAD!  Not “glory that I was PREDESTINED TO SOMEDAY HAVE”, but glory “I ALREADY HAD”. Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) He says with the glory that I had because God had forseen this. Whether or not GOD had “foreseen” this glory, Jesus couldn’t have rightfully called a glory that “God had foreseen” a glory that “I HAD”, could he? Right now, maybe God is already seeing the glory YOU will someday have when you finally see the truth about Jesus' pre-existence.  But you couldn’t right now call that “the glory I HAD”, could you? Quote (942767 @ June 04 2011,18:13) And God, did grant his request.  Did he not say that “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto him”, and that “No man can come to the Father but by him”? Sounds like to me that he granted his request. Chink in the armor #2, Marty.  If God TRULY granted Jesus' request, and sent him back to the glory HE HAD, then Jesus would right now be a thought in God's heart without a will, mind or emotions.  Because THAT is the glory that YOU claim Jesus was talking about. mike Let's start with these chinks in your armor, Marty.  You avoided dealing with them by diverting to other things.  Please address the points I made in the above post. Hi Mike: I will simply answer you by this scripture emphasizing what is in the bold: Hebrews 4:3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works In the mind and heart of God, Jesus had the glory.  In other words, it was a done deal, finished from the foundation of the world. Love in Christ, Marty Marty the verses you quoted you have apply them wrongly; Heb 4:4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.” Heb 4:5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” Heb 4:6 It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Heb 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” we know that God rest on the six day of creation after man and women were created ,but this is only related to the earth we know the other rest Paul talks about is related to the rest of the gospel. Pierre

Hi Pierre:

Were the works finished from the foundation of the world or not?

That is what the scripture states, and so, how can I be wrong if that is what the scripture states.

God speaks those things that are not as though they already were because they will be manifest into reality in his timing.

In the mind of God Jesus already had the glory that Jesus received at the completion of the work that God assigned him to do in his ministry on earth from the foundation of the world. It was a “done deal”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Marty

Quote

Hi Pierre: Were the works finished from the foundation of the world or not? That is what the scripture states, and so, how can I be wrong if that is what the scripture states. God speaks those things that are not as though they already were because they will be manifest into reality in his timing. In the mind of God Jesus already had the glory that Jesus received at the completion of the work that God assigned him to do in his ministry on earth from the foundation of the world. It was a “done deal”. Love in Christ, Marty

what do you think are the WORKS ?

Jn 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

and the foundation of the world is when he finish creation on the planet.

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2011,12:32)

Marty Quote Hi Pierre: Were the works finished from the foundation of the world or not?   That is what the scripture states, and so, how can I be wrong if that is what the scripture states. God speaks those things that are not as though they already were because they will be manifest into reality in his timing. In the mind of God Jesus already had the glory that Jesus received at the completion of the work that God assigned him to do in his ministry on earth from the foundation of the world.  It was a “done deal”.   Love in Christ, Marty what do you think are the WORKS ? Jn 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” and the foundation of the world is when he finish creation on the planet. Pierre

Hi Pierre:

God had already forseen the end result from the beginning.(That is what is meant by stating the works were finsished from the foundation of the world) Does that mean that the actual manifestation of them had already happened? No, it does not.

God had a plan for this world in the beginning, before the foundation of the world, the works are those things that God would do in accomplishing that plan.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Hi Marty,

You keep saying, “in the mind of God” or “in the mind and heart of God” or “God had already forseen”, etc.

My question is why JESUS, not GOD, would have said “the glory I HAD“?  And why the words “I HAD” if the glory was only a glory forseen by God which Jesus hadn't yet attained to?

Marty, if your Lord and King says HE HAD glory alongside God before the creation of the world, then why won't you believe him?

Btw, your scripture doesn't answer even one of the chinks in your armor that I've pointed out.  I'm BEGGING YOU to answer these points, Marty.  Because I know that by trying and realizing that you CAN'T, I might help you to see the truth.

I pray for peace and understanding from God to you brother,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 08 2011,19:51)

Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2011,12:32) Marty Quote Hi Pierre: Were the works finished from the foundation of the world or not?   That is what the scripture states, and so, how can I be wrong if that is what the scripture states. God speaks those things that are not as though they already were because they will be manifest into reality in his timing. In the mind of God Jesus already had the glory that Jesus received at the completion of the work that God assigned him to do in his ministry on earth from the foundation of the world.  It was a “done deal”.   Love in Christ, Marty what do you think are the WORKS ? Jn 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” and the foundation of the world is when he finish creation on the planet. Pierre Hi Pierre: God had already foreseen the end result from the beginning.(That is what is meant by stating the works were finsished from the foundation of the world)  Does that mean that the actual manifestation of them had already happened?  No, it does not. God had a plan for this world in the beginning, before the foundation of the world, the works are those things that God would do in accomplishing that plan. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

do you understand what you are saying ;is that God as foreseen the wickedness of and in his own creation,

and so plan accordingly and is responsible for all wickedness on earth,

then also can not be holy,because his mind would be mixed with wickedness

and so God would not be righteous and just as the scriptures tell us.

NOW IF GOD IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS AND TRUE AND LOVE THEN THERE IS NO WICKETNESS IN HIM AND ALL HE DOES IS GOOD AND RIGHTEOUS AND OUT OF LOVE,

THEN YOU CAN NOT BE RIGHT,

SO WHAT YOU THINK ?

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2011,14:30)

Quote (942767 @ June 08 2011,19:51) Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2011,12:32) Marty Quote Hi Pierre: Were the works finished from the foundation of the world or not?   That is what the scripture states, and so, how can I be wrong if that is what the scripture states. God speaks those things that are not as though they already were because they will be manifest into reality in his timing. In the mind of God Jesus already had the glory that Jesus received at the completion of the work that God assigned him to do in his ministry on earth from the foundation of the world.  It was a “done deal”.   Love in Christ, Marty what do you think are the WORKS ? Jn 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” and the foundation of the world is when he finish creation on the planet. Pierre Hi Pierre: God had already foreseen the end result from the beginning.(That is what is meant by stating the works were finsished from the foundation of the world)  Does that mean that the actual manifestation of them had already happened?  No, it does not. God had a plan for this world in the beginning, before the foundation of the world, the works are those things that God would do in accomplishing that plan. Love in Christ, Marty Marty do you understand what you are saying ;is that God as foreseen the wickedness of and in his own creation, and so plan accordingly and is responsible for all wickedness on earth, then also can not be holy,because his mind would be mixed with wickedness and so God would not be righteous and just as the scriptures tell us. NOW IF GOD IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS AND TRUE AND LOVE THEN THERE IS NO WICKETNESS IN HIM AND ALL HE DOES IS GOOD AND RIGHTEOUS AND OUT OF LOVE, THEN YOU CAN NOT BE RIGHT, SO WHAT YOU THINK ? Pierre

Hi Pierre:

You say:

Quote

and so plan accordingly and is responsible for all wickedness on earth,

I in no way stated or implied that he was responsible for the wickedness of his creation because he has forseen it. He has forseen Jesus would obey him without sin even unto death on the cross, and that through him all those who have obeyed Him from creation until he comes for the church will be saved.

How can be responsible for your sin and mine or for Adam and Eve's sin. We have a free will to either obey Him or not.

He allows the wickedness of his creation with the hope that we will repent because He does not anyone to serve Him unless they want to serve Him.

But also because He is a God of justice. Since men do have a free will, and if they choose not to be saved, they will be judged according to their works.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Bump for Marty

Hi Marty,

You keep saying, “in the mind of God” or “in the mind and heart of God” or “God had already forseen”, etc.

My question is why JESUS, not GOD, would have said “the glory I HAD“?  And why did he use the words “I HAD” if the glory was only a glory forseen by God which Jesus hadn't yet attained to?

Marty, if your Lord and King says HE HAD glory alongside God before the creation of the world, then why won't you believe him?

Btw, your scripture doesn't answer even one of the chinks in your armor that I've pointed out.  I'm BEGGING YOU to answer these points, Marty.  Because I know that by trying and realizing that you CAN'T, I might help you to see the truth.

I pray for peace and understanding from God to you brother,
mike

[Proclaimer]

Marty.

If you were in the mind of God previous to your creation, did you then have glory with God before the world began and are you going to return to that glory?
If not, why not?

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ June 13 2011,12:04)

Marty. If you were in the mind of God previous to your creation, did you then have glory with God before the world began and are you going to return to that glory? If not, why not?

Hi t8:

This is what the scripture states:

John 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

You add to that scripture:

Quote

and are you going to return to that glory?

This statement is not in the scriptures

He had the glory with God upon completion of his earthly ministry.  God had forseen this and thus “It was a done deal”.

But yes, in the same manner, I did have glory with God before the world began.

This is what we find in Romans:

Quote

8:29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And to Jeremiah God says this:

Quote

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

And lastly, Jesus said this:

Quote

John 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Proclaimer]

So if Jesus is no different to us, then are we the Logos too?
And why does scripture make such a fuss about him being the logos and the son of God when we are exactly the same?
Perhaps you could write a testament about yourself like the one about Jesus.

Jesus is the firstborn or prototype and we are being transformed to be like him. He was before all things and as the Logos was WITH God.
All I say here is but repetition of scripture.

He is also the image of the invisible God. So I take it that no one had ever seen what God is like till 2000 years ago?
They only had angels and creation to comprehend him.

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ June 15 2011,10:32)

So if Jesus is no different to us, then are we the Logos too? And why does scripture make such a fuss about him being the logos and the son of God when we are exactly the same? Perhaps you could write a testament about yourself like the one about Jesus. Jesus is the firstborn or prototype and we are being transformed to be like him. He was before all things and as the Logos was WITH God. All I say here is but repetition of scripture. He is also the image of the invisible God. So I take it that no one had ever seen what God is like till 2000 years ago? They only had angels and creation to comprehend him.

Hi t8:

Of course, Jesus is different than us in that he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary and is the Only Begotten Son of the Living God and God has made him both Lord and Christ.  And he is the only one who has or will ever obey God without sin even unto death.

The Logos was with God and it pertains to Jesus.  But no, he is not the Logos.  The Logos is the “Word of God”.  And the scriptures state that in this last days: “God has spoken to humanity through His Son”.

But we were talking about the glory that God gave him.  Of course none of us can ever be Lord and Christ, but we are being conformed to his image and are joint heirs with him, and because of him we will have eternal life in the world to come.

The scripture states in Philippians:

Quote

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You say that he was going to return to the glory that he formerly had prior to the foundation of the world.  Is the glory to which he is returning that which I have highlighted in verses 8 thru 11?  Or just to what glory are you referring?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Proclaimer]

We know that God created all through the Logos. But it also says that God created all through Jesus Christ. In addition, it says that The Logos became flesh was Jesus.

So The Logos becoming flesh is Jesus
And through the Logos God creates all
And through Jesus God creates all.

So what is the difference?

John 1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Colossians 1:15-17
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

They almost read word for word, and one is attributed to the Logos and the other the son. The former even identifies Jesus later in the book.

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