Preexistence

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 22 2010,04:54)

Irene………..You do not believe Jesus came into existence as a Human being , you believe he was a there as a disguised Past existing being just as the Gnostic's did, the only difference is that you think he was “Morphed” into a human being from a past existence, While they believed he just appeared as a Human being but was really not , but the (BOTTOM LINE) remains the same you both are separatists and both separate Jesus' identity from our identity. No difference at all really, and for this cause i say you both Trinitarians and Preexistences are Antichrists. NO not I but the Apostle John does. IMO

peace and love to you and Georg……………………………………..gene

Here, you said that I have the Spirit of Anti-Christ…Irene

March 25, 2011 at 10:26 pm#240518

Participant

Irene………What i said is the belief of Preexistences, is the SPIRIT of ANTICHRIST and if the shoe fit wear it. Do you believe Jesus came into “EXISTENCE AS A HUMAN BEING” no you do not believe he did COME INTO (EXISTENCE) AS A HUMAN BEING, YOU BELIEVE HE ALREADY EXISTED, AS A DEMIGOD OR ANGEL OR WHAT EVER, but you do not believe he came into (EXISTENCE) by his berth on earth through Mary , you believe he was Morphed or (INCARNATED) into existence from another(EXISTING LIFE). Lets try to be honest here for a change if you can be. IMO

gene

March 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm#240521

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 26 2011,04:26)

gene

You should take your understanding about what John stated about the spirit of the antichrist and start a thread about it in the forum on biblical teachings.

This is not really the appropriate thread or forum for it.

March 27, 2011 at 7:26 pm#240836

Participant

Kerwin………thanks brother i will try to do that.

peace and love to you and yours ……………………………gene

March 27, 2011 at 8:29 pm#240856

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 26 2011,09:26)

gene

Gene and Kerwin! I lije to tell Gene first this. I don't know how many times that I have stated that I DO BELIEVE THAT JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH> You keep on saying what I don't believe. That is a lie…….

March 28, 2011 at 4:56 am#240942

Participant

Irene…….What i am referring to is you do not believe Jesus came into his (existence) when he was born by MARY on earth. That is my point Not that you believe he was not born on earth, you believe he was MORPHED or INCARNATED from another LIFE FORM that preexisted his berth on earth. That is what i am talking about by saying that. Notice i said “the belief in Preexistence is the Spirit of Antichrist”. I full well know you believe he was born by Mary on earth that is not the Point Irene.

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………………gene

March 28, 2011 at 9:37 am#240958

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 28 2011,15:56)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………………gene

There is no Scripture that says that Jesus did NOT existed as a Spirit before He became a man. And if someone like t8. Mike and others beside myself belief that Jesus did exist His birth on earth. If there would not be Scriptures that teach us that Jesus was the firstborn if all creation, maybe I would say OK your right. However we do have Scriptures to prove that. And that is what I go by, and not what you or any other man will say.
Those who do believe in the preexisting do not have the spirit of anti-Christ, because they DO believe that Jesus came in the flesh.
Besides it is not right to call any body by any kind of name. That to me is judging, and wrong. So if you want to be like a Christian then YOU should at least act like one….
I have not seen either Paladin or Wispring do that, and I for one appreciate them. Take their example and start being a little nicer. Maybe you will get the respect of people like Mike and t8 and myself….
Peace Irene

March 28, 2011 at 4:34 pm#240986

Participant

Irene…….Again i am not calling your anything, i am Saying (ALL) Preexistence “TEACHINGS” is from the “SPIRIT” (intellect) of Antichrist , rather you percieve that or not is irrelevant to me, And i could care less if you or Mike or T8 respect me or not, it is the Truth that Matters to me , not gaining any respect from you or anyone else here. Look i am not attacking your character at all never did, I respect your OPINIONS about Jesus Preexistence Just as much as i do all Trinitarians on their Preexistence OPINIONS, Just do not agree with them that is all.

Peace and love to you and Georg……………………………………………….gene

March 29, 2011 at 1:11 am#241029

Proclaimer

Participant

According to you Gene.

Did Jesus COME in the flesh?
Or is he flesh?
Or something else?

March 29, 2011 at 3:58 am#241051

Participant

T8……..I believe Jesus did come into existence in the Flesh, he was the foretold “seed of the women” the difference i do not believe He preexisted that existence in the flesh in any form of Being, he only existed in the Plan and foreknowledge of GOD. He was a flesh and blood human being died in the flesh and rose in the flesh and is still exists in the flesh.

T8, what did Jesus say he was after he was resurected that is what he was then and is Now and will return that way as a Son of Man according to (his words). He is going to be a Son of Man that returns, “when the Son of Man return will he find Faith on the earth”.

T8 …….Have you followed Paladins Post Here recently concerning this issue brother? read it and tell us what you think , i believe you are capable of understand it clearly. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours T8 …………………………………….gene

March 29, 2011 at 4:44 am#241064

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Mar. 28 2011,02:29)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 26 2011,09:26)

gene

Then explain why your understanding of what John stated in his letter and let Gene explain his and God will Judge which if either of you are correct.

This allows both of you to test your own beliefs and determine if they are from God. Remember what James taught us about testing.

March 29, 2011 at 5:03 am#241072

Participant

Kerwin………..Right on brother, let God judge between us and reveal to the one who is wrong what is Right. I have stated before and will now again “ALL PREEXISTENCE TEACHINGS AS WELL AS THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS NOT OF GOD. IT IS ALL ANTICHRIST TEACHING THAT SEPARATE JESUS FROM OUR LIKENESS AND OUR EXACT IDENTITY AS A HUMAN BEING”. IMO

peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………..gene

March 29, 2011 at 6:26 am#241082

terraricca

Participant

Gene and Kerwin

your comments do not explain anything either way you have not shown your scriptures that clearly state that Jesus Christ did not preexist his birth as a man.

and please include the reason why it is the holy spirit intervention in his birth that bring Christ about.
please feel free to do so ,

Pierre

March 29, 2011 at 10:09 am#241096

Participant

Pierre,

My current posts are merely to get posters to that have a different understanding about some of John's teachings to post in a different thread meant to deal with that topic.

I have previously written my understanding as reguards preexistence and why I have arrived at that understanding. I have nothing further to add to what I stated previously. If the spirit moves me I will address that topic at another time.

Take care and seek God's righteousness.

March 29, 2011 at 1:49 pm#241115

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2011,15:44)

Quote (Baker @ Mar. 28 2011,02:29)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 26 2011,09:26)

gene

Then explain why your understanding of what John stated in his letter and let Gene explain his and God will Judge which if either of you are correct.

This allows both of you to test your own beliefs and determine if they are from God. Remember what James taught us about testing.

Kerwin! Gene always disagrees with the preexisting of Jesus, but never gives Scriptures why he thinks so. And I also ask you to give Scriptures of why YOU don;t believe so. Anybody can say I don't believe. But they have no credibility if they give no Scriptures what soever.
Peace Irene

March 30, 2011 at 5:04 am#241193

Participant

Irene……..I have many time given my reasons many times , I have posted many posts that prove Jesus did not preexist , for instance His linage and Him saying He was the root and offspring of David, and the Scripture that say the Messiah would come from the root s Jesse, and where Moses said God would raise up from there brethren and Prophet like him and Jesus never said he was alive being and died and then was incarnated into Mary and born in Flesh and died again and was raised. Not Apostle ever said Jesus preexisted his berth on Earth not one. I have quoted where Peter said He was “FOREORDAINED (BUT) was manifested in our time” that along should tell you he did not preexist his berth on earth. I have over the year posted many many of these scriptures. Look i am not a Greek Scholar by no means but what Paladin has said makes perfect sense to me. This is the way i have for a long time understood it. I have tried to explain to you that the GNOSTIC”S were the principle cause of this false teaching and how it is a (SEPARATIST) TEACHING, because it moves Jesus away from our EXACT LIKENESS, and by doing that it also changes the perceptions of the work of GOD IN MANKIND> The trinitarian and Preexistence teaching are from the same source and do the same things. Irene Please Listen to Paladin his it accurate in what he is saying, so even if you don't agree with me i implore you to listen to what he is say.

peace and love to you and Georg……………………………………..gene

March 30, 2011 at 5:10 am#241195

Participant

Irene:

You wrote:

Quote

I believen Gene assumes you know the scriptures he refers to when he tells you how he understands them.

I have given scripture that show why Jesus is not preexistent but you prefer to believe he is. Since that is your choice I see no reason to go over the same territory any more.

Because I mentioned I will point out that scripture states Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb and is a Decendent of David. It also tells us that the children of God are the children of his Spirit and not of a husband's intent.

God did not sire Jesus as a husband does but rather through his Holy Spirit; just as he sires his other children. The difference being that the rest of humanity are adopted as they are origionally spiritually sired by the devil and thus fall short of the glory of God.

March 30, 2011 at 3:01 pm#241235

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2011,16:10)

Irene:

You wrote:

Quote

I believen Gene assumes you know the scriptures he refers to when he tells you how he understands them.

I have given scripture that show why Jesus is not preexistent but you prefer to believe he is. Since that is your choice I see no reason to go over the same territory any more.

Kerwin, Yes I believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God and
Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Ask yourself what form is God? Is He not Spirit? Yes, and that is the glory Jesus had before the world was, which He went back to John 17:5
Now then He took on the form of a Servant, and was made in the likeness of men. In other words He became flesh John1:14.

I have asked myself why is it so hard to understand this. Besides these Scriptures we have other that shows me.
But lets get back to Gene. No matter what, even if I didn't believe Jesus came in the flesh, it is wrong to label anyone. It is judging…And that I have against anyone who does so…..
I do believe that Jesus was conceived by God's Holy Spirit and became man. But He is Gods literal Son, and not a mere man.
It s up to you and Gene to believe this or not, but to label me is judging and wrong…..
Peace Irene

April 1, 2011 at 4:26 am#241433

Participant

Irene,

Providing my memory is correct, if Gene is sticking to the teaching from John then he is labeling the doctrinal tenet you believe in to be from the Anti Christ. He also included the Trinity tenet in that label.

I do not believe he is calling you an anti Christ.

I also believe you understand the scripture in John he is refering to differently. That is why I attemted to get you two to discuss that scripture and others related to the same topic.

April 1, 2011 at 4:08 pm#241514