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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:03) Ed, Do you or do you not think “Word of God” is a title that Jesus was given?
mike
Hi Mike,No.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:06) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,16:33) God has a thought process, but God is NOT a thought process.
God is a Spirit rather than just having one as you suggest!
So in Rev, when it mentions the seven spirits of God, it really means that we have seven Gods?
Or does it mean that the ONE spirit being known as Jehovah also has spirits at His command?
mike
Hi Mike,Neither; Seven manifestations of One “God Spirit”.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:16) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,17:01) Hi Mike, Adding the indefinite article changes the meaning of the text.
No Ed,OMITTING the “a” in the first place is what “changed the meaning of the text”. It was ONLY omitted in John 1:1, right?
mike
Hi Mike,No Mike, it was never there because Greek has no indefinite article!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:16) No Ed, But I've showed you two other similar verse from Acts where the “a” is added in virtually every English translation. Adding the “a” also changes the meaning there, but I don't hear you complaining about those two scriptures.
mike
Hi Mike,Would you like to discuss each account (to which) you speak?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:18) Hi Ed, 1) John 1:1 NWT
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2) Acts 12:22 NIV
They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.”3) Acts 28:6 NIV
The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.They are listed above in blue print. Discuss away.
mike
Hi Mike,1) The indefinite article is added here, corrupting the text.
2) The indefinite article added here is necessary in English; but NOT in John 1:1!
3) We can not suppose which god these people would refer to; can you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:22) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,17:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49) I asked: Quote (1)But God's SPIRIT cannot BECOME FLESH and remaing a Spirit at the same time, can it? Ed answered:
Quote 1) Why not? Are you not both flesh and Spirit? (Rom.8:16 / 1Cor.6:20)
Yes I am. But the “spirit” part of me is not “flesh” and the “flesh” part of me is not “spirit”.mike
Hi Mike,What does that have to do with anything?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
1) You claim that God's Spirit BECAME flesh. I claim that God filled His Son WITH His Holy Spirit.2) Your scenario has a spirit actually becoming flesh, which would mean it's not spirit anymore.
3) Mine has a spirit filling someone who is flesh without itself BECOMING flesh.
4) Which one fits better into what we know about ourselves?
That was my point.
mike
Hi Mike,1) Your wording is acceptable.
2) So once the HolySpirit “fully” entered Jesus flesh, he was no-where else?
He was in John also; No? He was still in Heaven as well; No?3) Your juggling words again.
4) Your wording in Point #1.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:23) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,17:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49) Ed: Quote 2) John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his(God's) glory, the glory(of God) as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
Ed, you are not thinking this through completely. How does God have the glory of an only begotten FROM God?mike
Hi Mike,Where does Jesus “Glory” come from?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No, no, no, no, no…………Answer MY question.
mike
Hi Mike,Your question cannot be answered,
because it doesn't make any sense.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:26) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,17:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49)
Ed:Quote 3) It is not my Job to convince you, only to present “Bible Truth”!
If what you speak really is “Bible Truth”, then you would EASILY convince me Ed. But that is a lame “fallback” sentence to say after I've showed you the scriptural and logical flaws in your theory……don't you think?
Hi Mike,So you agree “The Word” becoming flesh [[[ in ]]] Jesus is what produces God's Glory; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Not only is it ridiculous to come to that conclusion about what I think based on the prior discussion, but it is equally ridiculous to think Jesus had “God's glory”. God shares His glory with no one……..not even His Son. The Son has glory all his own.mike
Hi Mike,Why Not?
He can have God's Spirit,
but not the Glory of God's Spirit?
Tell us: where does Jesus glory come from?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:30) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,17:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49) Ed: Quote 5) Became means: came to be; see earlier Post of mine.
And see my answer to your earlier post. No matter how you define “became”, it still adds up to “God BECAME flesh” in your theory.mike
Hi Mike,“God BECAME flesh in” …theory.
Now that you understand; great!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,You don't have to quote every word I say, but don't take out the one word that makes my quote sound like I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying, okay?
Now, please answer my point in the above post. Is that what you really think? That God became flesh?
mike
Hi Mike,How have I not answered your question?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,11:52) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 02 2010,10:10) Let keep the questions short and not have so many in on post i will try not to also.
Gene,Fair enough. This is how I understand it so far:
Who is the Word in John 1?
Shimmer, Mike, Irene and Pierre: The pre-existent Son of God.
Gene, Kerwin: The actual words that God spoke.
Ed: God's Holy Spirit.
Do I have this correct so far?
I would like to take these “choices” right down the line of scripture, starting with the Gospel of John.
The first hurdle for Gene, Kerwin, Shimmer and Ed is John 1:14a. It says “the word became flesh”.
Note that it does NOT say “the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh”.
Now without a big speech, can you all just let me know if your “choice” can reasonably BECOME flesh?
Then we'll move on down the scriptural line.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,I love you brother, and I'm so glad you're here! My answer is:
Before Jesus' baptism, “The Word” could ‘only’ become BOOK!Small speech: Now “The Word” can become, tape, record,
microfiche, movie, telephone transmission and more flesh; ect.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 02 2010,12:49) Mike Boll, Did the Bible Students, Jehovah Witnesses, and related Christian sects suffer interpretation bias when translating Scripture into the New World Translation?
Hi Kerwin,What do you think?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,13:52) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 02 2010,13:44) Ed:
1. Do you believe “The Word” is the HolySpirit? …Yes!
2. Do you believe God's Spirit is God The Father? …Yes!
Very good Ed. We will be dealing with #1 after I get confirmation from Kerwin and Gene about their beliefs about who the Word is in John 1.(A.)As for #2, are all seven of God's spirits God Himself? (B.)Do we have seven Gods?
mike
Hi Mike,A) Seven spirit manifestations of one “God Spirit”.
manifestations: plural of man·i·fes·ta·tion (Noun)
The action or fact of showing something in such a wayB) No.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike………..The seven /spirits of GOD are seven aspects with power or intellects with power of ONE GOD. Here is an example, Say you have one Gun which represents power, that gun is made up of say seven rounds in chambers the contain seven distinct bullets and each contain force or power on there own, but they are connect as part of one gun. So it is i believe with GOD he is ONE overall Power composed of seven distinct attributes or Eyes and each connected with POWER. These the LORD (YHWH) uses to bring abut His Purposes in all creation. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Mike Boll,
I ask because I suspicion you acknowledge translation bias when the translation disagrees with your interpretation but not when it disagrees. I then planned to demonstrate you were using two different measuring sticks hoping you would see your error or alleviate my suspicions by explain the apparent bias. Whatever you do is up to you.
I am not sure if John 1 is speaking about the Spirit, at least partway through, or is speaking of the Word of God as neither breaks scripture.
Ed J,
I suspicion that translation bias exists in every modern translation. The question is whether or not the bias is godly. Even with worldly bias God repeats himself and the fact scripture cannot be broken will reveal the truth as well as any important mistranslated scriptures.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 02 2010,15:39) Mike………..The seven /spirits of GOD are seven aspects with power or intellects with power of ONE GOD.
And with the same mouth you say, “you force the text to say what you want it to say”.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 30 2010,02:46) Adam……Return to the core which is (Faith) in GOD. I do not think you have lost that brother , because the calling of God is without Revocation, Once I had an attitude about GOD that pictured Him as a cruel and mean GOD Who destroyed his own people, I reasoned how could a loving GOD cause his people to even eat there own Kids and bring on them such evil as that and at the same time portray himself as a ;loving and forgiving GOD, it just did no add up to me. So what happened was GOD produced the same thing he felt in my own life, I had given my Son So many good things all his life His was my GOD given delight literally, and One day after i had gotten this attitude toward GOD , God caused my Son to do to Me What Israel did to Him. MY son whom i loved became so ungrateful and disrespectful to me it began to really bother my, and one day i ask him to mow the Lawn he refused and got into the new Pickup truck i had bought for him and drive of after filling it up from my gas pump, So i Got so angry with him i began to Curse him in every way possible saying How ungrateful he was and if i could have got my hands on him i would have really taught him a lesson , I mean i was exceedingly anger with him and as i was mowing the lawn cursing him, suddenly this soft voice came to me and said to me gene “why are you angry with your son” and i said because He is so ungrateful for all the thing i have given and done for Him and if he were here i would beat the tare out of him, and then this voice said to me “and should i have not been angry with Israel for all the evil they did to Me and there disrespect the showed to me”. And right them i said yes lord i see you were right in what you did to those thankful and disrespectful people. Then it all came together and i realized even my son who never acted disrespectful like that before was (caused) to act that way because GOD understood my own attitude about Him and was dealing with it. My Son came back and Showed me he was sorry for what he had done and i could see how GOD was teaching me through him how he felt about what Israel did to him.
This whole experience Changed my thinking about GOD and why He reacted so Cruel to them, it was because of all he did for them and they gave the honor and glory to Pagan Idols , it was a insult and showed very great disrespect for all the love and Kindness He gave to them, GOD indeed was Justified in what he did to Israel. God indeed can get Jealous and react violently at time.
My point Adam, is that sometime our perception of GOD and his actions can be distorted because we don't have all the facts involved. But GOD did not begin a work in you to not complete it brother. Keep seeking the truth brother you will find it, and hold on to the one you all ready have. We only see in part as if through a darkened Glass in something my brother. A time will come when every thing will be brought to true light.
peace and love to you and your Adam…………………………….gene
Oh! my brother Gene, you touched my heart by sharing of your life experiences. Even I am in that same situation of blaming God and finding fault with the writers of Biblical books. I never felt such experience in my life. I see Bible as a book with full of myths and fables like any other religious book with no reliability on its concepts of God and religion. I am really frustrated in reading scriptures daily. I don't get satisfaction and joy these days. I also read lot of scepticism on Bible and Christianity.May be you are right in saying that I am having the spirit of God that's reason why I still hang on to Heavennet or continue attending worship services and reading Bible daily.
Hope things are OK soon as many pray for this feeble brother.Love and peace to you and others who care for me in Heavennet
Adam57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
What these Jews and some here do not realize is that the Biblical prophecy states that the messiah's origin is:
“from old, from everlasting”
and, so, he would indeed have existed in Abraham's time.Just as these Jews were outraged by his words, so it is with some people here too.
2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting
Do these scriptures provide comfort as to the origins and existence of our messiah?
Or are these words like acid to you and make you want to take up stones to cast at anyone who utters them?Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,12:35) Mike, I HAD always believed Jesus pre-existed, but could never understand HOW Jesus came to be born as Jesus, so now i see it wasnt the flesh side of Jesus which pre-existed, it was a normal body, born as we are, but it was the spirit which was in him, the pre-existant word, I call the word the son of God, so Im not thinking like Gene either. What I believe is scriptual, from what I can see. Do I believe the word is the son of God ? Yes.
Do I believe the word pre-existed ? Yes,
Do I believe all was created through the son (the word)? Yes.
Do i believe the word was made flesh ? Yes.
Do I believe the word manifested to others throughout the old testement writings ? Yes,The word was in the flesh, in the man Jesus.
Hi Sis,
I am sorry to ask you, is there any scriptural support for your beliefs quoted above?Your logics are reasonal and seem to be fitting in the Christian doctrines that are prevalent today.
So far I could not find any reasonable answers for my queries on pre-existence of Jesus prior to his human birth including those of Unitarianism.
Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Nov. 02 2010,22:37) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,12:35) Mike, I HAD always believed Jesus pre-existed, but could never understand HOW Jesus came to be born as Jesus, so now i see it wasnt the flesh side of Jesus which pre-existed, it was a normal body, born as we are, but it was the spirit which was in him, the pre-existant word, I call the word the son of God, so Im not thinking like Gene either. What I believe is scriptual, from what I can see. Do I believe the word is the son of God ? Yes.
Do I believe the word pre-existed ? Yes,
Do I believe all was created through the son (the word)? Yes.
Do i believe the word was made flesh ? Yes.
Do I believe the word manifested to others throughout the old testement writings ? Yes,The word was in the flesh, in the man Jesus.
Hi Sis,
I am sorry to ask you, is there any scriptural support for your beliefs quoted above?Your logics are reasonal and seem to be fitting in the Christian doctrines that are prevalent today.
So far I could not find any reasonable answers for my queries on pre-existence of Jesus prior to his human birth including those of Unitarianism.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
Adam! You are simple not asking God for wisdom….. The Bible explains itself. Daniel explains
Revelation.
The Word of God in John 1:1 that also became flesh is plainly explained inRev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
We should all know who The Word of God is. Just like God is a title so is The Word of God.(Spokesman of God) Throughout the Old Testament when God is speaking it is The Word of God who became Jesus as a man.
You also have to look at some Scriptures that are telling us that Jesus preexisted His birth here on earth.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Notice verse 18 He also is the firstborn of the death, so in all things He may have preeminence…..meaning that He was first in all. Firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the death….
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Then we have the Scripture that by Jesus own words in
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Here Jesus is telling us that He came from Heaven to do not His own will, but the will of His Father who send Him…..
If you read John through His work, He explains Jesus…..
I do know how hard it was in the beginning for me to understand all of this, however if you have an open mind and ask God to show you, He will….
I am lucky that my Husband has spend hours in a row to study the word of God. Before His studies, He always prayed first, and asked God for Wisdom. From Georg I have learned a lot…..And I would not listen to me, or others or even Gene. Take the Scriptures and ask God to show you, is it the truth or not….that is what we all should be doing. Some on here will just ignore plain written Scriptures…..that my friend I would advice you not to do….we all have to do what Scripture say
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good
Also I don't pay attention to whoever will call me a name, if Unitarianism or other. That is a cop out……
Peace and Love Irene
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