Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

And Ed,

Could you please PERSONALLY post to me and my points?  We have all seen your “stock” responses to certain points many times.  You didn't even delete Irene's name from the last one.

Btw, is the Holy Spirit also the one called “King of kings and Lord of lords”?

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:38)

FOR KERWIN, GENE, AND ED……….FROM THE JOHN 1:1-3 THREAD: But 1 John 1 makes it clear that this “Word” cannot be the invisible “Spirit of God”, for they have seen and touched this “Word”. peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

1John1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled, of “The Word” of life;

Did not John write Book's of the Bible?
Did not Peter write Book's of the Bible?
Did not Matthew write a Book of the Bible?
Did not James (Jesus brother) write a Book of the Bible?
Did NOT “all these Disciples hands” HANDLE “The Word” of Life?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:19)

Hi Mike,              You don't take up your cross daily?

No Ed,

I don't know where to buy a stake meant to be used for crucifying people.

Do I fight the good fight every day?  Sure.  Am I willing to be hated for the SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT good news daily?  Sure, I'm hated by some of those on this very forum.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25)

Ed: Quote Hi Mike, “The (literal) Word” is the HolySpirit, which become flesh [ [ [ IN ] ] ] Jesus! Ed, how does the Holy Spirit BECOME flesh while still remaining a spirit? mike

Hi Mike,

The same way “The Word” becomes flesh in us…

Acts12:24 …”The Word” ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of God grew and multiplied.
Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought
beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall
be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HolySpirit.
Luke 12:12 For the HolySpirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25)

And these questions are senseless, but I'll answer them anyway. Quote 1) Was the world without “the word” before Jesus was born? The world came into creation through the Word, so there was never a world without God's Word. mike

Hi Mike,

I don't see the name Jesus in your answer?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:38) FOR KERWIN, GENE, AND ED……….FROM THE JOHN 1:1-3 THREAD: But 1 John 1 makes it clear that this “Word” cannot be the invisible “Spirit of God”, for they have seen and touched this “Word”. peace and love, mike Hi Mike, 1John1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of “The Word” of life; Did not John write Book's of the Bible? Did not Peter write Book's of the Bible? Did not Matthew write a Book of the Bible? Did not James (Jesus brother) write a Book of the Bible? Did NOT “all these Disciples hands” HANDLE “The Word” of Life? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Oh brother!

Do you think John was talking about the scriptures?

2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

In which way did the scriptures “appear” to them. And what would be the big deal anyway? They had had the Law and the Prophets for many years by then.

Come on Ed, you are just reaching and twisting and purposely ignoring what is clearly written down.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25) Ed: Quote Hi Mike, “The (literal) Word” is the HolySpirit, which become flesh [ [ [ IN ] ] ] Jesus! Ed, how does the Holy Spirit BECOME flesh while still remaining a spirit? mike Hi Mike, The same way “The Word” becomes flesh in us… Acts12:24 …”The Word” ([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of God grew and multiplied. Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HolySpirit. Luke 12:12 For the HolySpirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I'm sorry, I don't see anything that says the Holy Spirit becomes flesh.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25) And these questions are senseless, but I'll answer them anyway. Quote 1) Was the world without “the word” before Jesus was born? The world came into creation through the Word, so there was never a world without God's Word. mike Hi Mike, I don't see the name Jesus in your answer? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

And……….?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25)

Quote 2) Was “the word” confined to Jesus while he walked the Earth? “Word” means “spokesman”, and God has used many.  But just like God has many “sons”, only ONE is “THE SON OF GOD”, and only ONE “spokesman” is “THE WORD”.  So your question make no sense to me, because Jesus IS the Word. mike

Hi Mike,

Were these other spokesmen not speaking “The Word”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25)

Quote 3) Was the world without “the word” while Jesus' corps lie in the tomb? The world was without God's #1 Spokesman at that time, yes.  And I guess I don't know of the Holy Spirit or any other Holy Spirit filled person speaking any words of God to the world while Jesus was dead.  So, YES. mike

Hi Mike,

I like this answer, because the “HolySpirit” wasn't given until after Jesus' resurrection.
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father(HolySpirit) hath sent me,
even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the HolySpirit:

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25)

Quote 4) Was the world without “the word” when Jesus ascended into heaven? No more than the world has been without Jesus since he ascended to heaven.  He's not still here in the flesh, but he's still here for us. mike

Hi Mike,

“The Word” and Jesus (in spirit form) are BOTH here indeed! (John 14:23-24)

John 14:23-24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man(Christian) love me,
he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him,
and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
and “The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25)

Quote 5) Is the world without “the word” now that Jesus is NOT here in the flesh? No………answered above. Now, will you comment on my post about whether it's better to take the scripture as it is written, or “assume” something else is meant?  Maybe you could comment or show some error in my thinking about all the things John said about the “Word” are also things we know to be true about Jesus.  And maybe you could comment about how we all know Jesus is called the Word in Rev.   mike

Hi Mike,

Should we take Ezekiel 1:1-28 as written?
Or how about the flying scorpions in Rev.9:10?
Or how about the dragon mentioned in Rev.12:3?
Are you going to the place that is mentioned in Rev.4:6?

Who then is lying John or these…

1Kgs:22:19: And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD:
I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven
standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

2Chron:18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD;
I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven
standing on his right hand and on his left.

Amos:9:1 I saw the LORD standing upon the altar: and he said,
Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake:
and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword:
he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Why do you 'think' the distinctions you make are correct?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

It is a matter of apparent conflict in scripture that must be resolved through the direction of God.  As I pointed out the Word of God is not David’s descendant.   If the Word became flesh that alone would cause scripture to be broken.  

Hypothetically some error such as a mis-scribe, mistranslation, or/and misinterpretation has occurred.  I will discount the first one as I have not heard of any early manuscripts that disagree.  On the other hand the word “Ginomai” can be translated to “be married to” which would remove the apparent conflict.  Other possible translations that are appropriate for the literal Word of God interpretation are “be done”, “be fulfilled” and others.  Considering that I see no need to go into ways to interpret the passage.

Please check me on that as I have some trouble using a Lexicon.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:38)

FOR KERWIN, GENE, AND ED……….FROM THE JOHN 1:1-3 THREAD: Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 30 2010,10:22) Mike…….., Good so we can assume there exists no such thing as a Flesh word right, So How did the Word become flesh then? It should be understood as the WORD came to Be (IN) the FLESH Man JESUS .   Remember GOD is SPIRIT and can Indwell us as he did Jesus. Yes Gene, we can rewrite the scriptures to suit our doctrines……..OR…….we can take the scriptures at face value.  Which do you think seems to be the better idea? So, we agree that a literal “word” cannot become flesh, right?  And we agree that our choices are to “assume” the scripture “meant” something other than what it says…..OR…..find a better understanding that leaves the scripture unscathed.  Let's do that last one. I've showed you info where an Abyssinian Prince's “spokesman” was referred to as his “word”.  Do you remember the post?  I could repost it if you want me to. Now, if Revelation makes it clear that Jesus Christ is also called “the Word of God”, and Revelation was written by the same author, then why is it so hard to connect the dots? Jesus is God's “spokesman” because, as you so often point out, he SPOKE THE WORDS OF GOD.  And someone's “spokesman” can be called their “word”. Now, this “Word” became flesh, and we both know a literal word cannot become flesh.  But we know that Jesus came in the flesh, right?  We also know this “Word” dwelled among us.  Jesus dwelled among us, right?  We also know this “Word” had the glory of an only begotten from the Father.  Jesus has the glory of an only begotten from the Father, right? So let's add this up: 1.  Jesus IS the “Word” in Revelation, which was also written by the Apostle John, so we know that John has been shown by the Spirit that Jesus is called “the Word”. 2.  A person's “spokesman” can be called that person's “word”. 3.  Jesus became flesh, just like the “Word” became flesh. 4.  Jesus dwelled among us, just like the “Word” dwelled among us. 5.  Jesus has the glory of an only begotten from the Father, just like the “Word” is said to have. And the best part is that we don't have to “assume” John “meant” something other than what he wrote.  Because that is a BIG assumption, Gene.  To assume that “became flesh” really means “came to be IN someone who WAS flesh” is really changing the meaning of what was written.   If you allow yourself to do it here, then what will stop you from “assuming” that “glorify me with the glory I HAD in your presence before the creation of the world” really means “give me the foreordained glory you've had waiting for me since the time I was a only thought in your head before the creation of the world”? Aren't we better than this Gene?  Do we really have to mutilate the scriptures just so we can make our unscriptural doctrines seem more scriptural? One last thought about “the Word”: 1 John 1:1-3 NIV 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. John here speaks of some “Word” of life.  But he claims they have seen, heard, looked at, and physically touched this “Word”.  1 John 1 parallels John 1 very closely in the language used: “Word”, “Light”, “Life”.  Read them both in comparison Gene……..you'll see the similarities.  But 1 John 1 makes it clear that this “Word” cannot be the invisible “Spirit of God”, for they have seen and touched this “Word”. peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

If you want me to comment, please pose questions; OK?
Otherwise my comment is I don't agree!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:27)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:15) The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Mike) to understand now? It sure helps me understand something about you!

Hi Mike,

Great! I will count that as progress!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:55)

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 29 2010,18:29) And trust me, Gene doesnt use tactic, Gene isnt a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' Just because someone has good manners or kindness or a good spirit doesnt mean they are wolves. I'm only interested in what they are saying, that's all. I didn't know you broke up the post.  I usually answer as I read the pages, so this might be redundant. Why would you support someone who is teaching what you yourself admit is unscriptural?  Someone who you told JA had already caused you to backslide a little? mike

No, Mike, I read sheppard of hermas, it was no-one here, did I say it was ?

Just my own curiosity and questions, thats all.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 30 2010,15:36)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:55) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 29 2010,18:29) And trust me, Gene doesnt use tactic, Gene isnt a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' Just because someone has good manners or kindness or a good spirit doesnt mean they are wolves. I'm only interested in what they are saying, that's all. I didn't know you broke up the post.  I usually answer as I read the pages, so this might be redundant. Why would you support someone who is teaching what you yourself admit is unscriptural?  Someone who you told JA had already caused you to backslide a little? mike No, Mike, I read sheppard of hermas, it was no-one here, did I say it was ? Just my own curiosity and questions, thats all.

Here's the post to which I refer Shimmer:

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 27 2010,10:59)

Ah Shimmer, that's the hard part. It is personal choice based on your belief of what is the true light. Gene may be praising a poster for their good post. That is easy to do and a good way to get others on his side by 'praising' the work of others. But why did Gene not post these things himself? PreExistence of Christ is absolutely and plainly spoken of in Scriptures, yet Gene says ''not so, and anyone who believes that he preExisted is an 'AntiChrist' ''. Scriptures says, 'Anyone who believes that Jesus HAS COME in the flesh will be saved'. 'Has Come'…does that seem like simply 'Born'? From WHERE is he to come from? From Heaven, Scripture tells us, the Spirit from Heaven. And then Jesus himself say, 'What if you see me return to where I once was?' And where might that be? And did 'they' see him return? Yes, they stood and watched as he ascended into the clouds (Into the Heavenly dimensions). What Gene is patently avoiding is the FACT that Jesus 'EMPTIED himself of his DIVINE nature to become man. Any one who has honesty in their belief would not dismiss clear teachings because it contradicts their belief. If their belief is right then they can show with honest to goodness verbatim Scriptural verses, or the understanding thereof. So Shimmer, it is all hard for you. As for choice, you need to get down on it and work it out for yourself.

Hi JA, thanks,

I always believed Jesus pre-existed, it was never an issue for me. I never even thought about it. But then I heard people who I believe have good spirits here saying that is a wrong belief, after some of the negative things I have experienced, I start to wonder, as it says 'By their fruits you will know them', but I know this is just one site, theres not many people on here, I shouldnt judge or change my beliefs just on that.

Maybe you could explain what you really meant by that post?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:40)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25) Quote 2) Was “the word” confined to Jesus while he walked the Earth? “Word” means “spokesman”, and God has used many.  But just like God has many “sons”, only ONE is “THE SON OF GOD”, and only ONE “spokesman” is “THE WORD”.  So your question make no sense to me, because Jesus IS the Word. mike Hi Mike, Were these other spokesmen not speaking “The Word”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

No Ed,

They were speaking God's words, not to be confused with the title afforded God's MAIN Spokeman………..”THE WORD”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:46)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25) Quote 3) Was the world without “the word” while Jesus' corps lie in the tomb? The world was without God's #1 Spokesman at that time, yes.  And I guess I don't know of the Holy Spirit or any other Holy Spirit filled person speaking any words of God to the world while Jesus was dead.  So, YES. mike Hi Mike, I like this answer, because the “HolySpirit” wasn't given until after Jesus' resurrection. John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father(HolySpirit) hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the HolySpirit: God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Good Ed. I like my answer of “Yes” also.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:53)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25) Quote 4) Was the world without “the word” when Jesus ascended into heaven? No more than the world has been without Jesus since he ascended to heaven.  He's not still here in the flesh, but he's still here for us. mike Hi Mike, “The Word” and Jesus (in spirit form) are BOTH here indeed! (John 14:23-24) John 14:23-24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man(Christian) love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and “The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Apparently it's confusing for you Ed. If I have a spokesman and as such he's called “MY WORD”, and then I told you personally, “I give you my word, Ed”, you would think I then gave you my Spokesman, huh?

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