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Lightenup,
I believe your words are inadvertently in opposition to scripture since Colossians 1:19 declares that God is please to have his fullness dwell in Jesus not that Jesus is a part of that fullness.
You should also consider scriptures like Ephesians 3:19 and Ephesians 4:13 which declare those that become totally mature in Christ will also have the full measure of God’s fullness.
From Galatians 5:22-24 and other scriptures, I would conclude that those who live by the Spirit at all times have the full measure of God’s fullness as God speaks and acts through them with Jesus in the acting as the mediator. This seems to clearly show the Spirit may be God’s fullness or at the least it facilitates that fullness. In either case I would not conclude it is part of God’s fullness.
Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 28 2010,19:30)
Hi Sis Karmarie,
Thanks again for your loving response to frustrating post. Yes you may be right in saying “I have read too much”. That is the problem with me once I started reading Bible with critical aspect.If you prayers are answered by the unknown God I may be Ok soon.
With love and peace
Adam
Hi Adam.The thing you need to look for is peace. You have it, how you speak, but you need to find peace with God. Understanding why things happened/happen as they do.
I became angered at hell, being eternal so they said, I never believed in it, but I started reading too much, started thinking 'what if they are right ?' I said I would not worship or pray to a God like that. After much ignoring God I prayed, and said of my anger. I asked if it was true, I was shown it was not true. I was shown God is love. I was shown God is fair. To trust in Him, and I believe it.
If theres any questions you have, ask, but ask the right person. If you ask the wrong one, you will get confused. I had another question with something I couldnt understand, I asked the right person and understood, finally.
Adam God is not just in scripture, God is there in prayer, extremly powerfull, when you trust him. Forget the internet, forget other writings, forget books, forget magazines, Pray. But realise it can take some time, as long as you dont give up, pray and pray and pray.
I hope you will be ok Adam.
Love and peace to you Adam.
All worship, honour, and praise directed at Jesus is because he is the son of God and the lamb of God. Jesus is never worshiped as God.
We can also honour and praise people for certain things. We can honour our wives or husbands. We can praise our children when they do well. We can bow down to kings. We just never praise and honour anyone as God except for God the Father. He is the only true God.Kerwin,
The 'We'… will not be filled with the Holy Spirit until the ressurection. No man, apart from Jesus has put off the flesh and taken on the Spirit except him. Also, no other man has been without sin and become cleansed enough to house the Spirit of God, again, only after the first ressurection, and these are the one, the 'We', who will be taken up to Heaven to live with Christ in the Spirit.
All else who attain the spirit in the second rising, will dwell on the renewed Paradise Earth but be able to see God, and the Glory of God in their sinless but fleshly body, as was the original purpose of God, for His purpose must be fulfilled.Note that this goes against many mainstream and simplistic views that 'We will all go to Heaven'.
Ask the question: What was God's original purpose, and does God change? What were God's commands to the first man, Adam? And have they been fulfilled?Shimmer,
You should not judge God. What you as a human being may see as evil God sees as good. It is best to accept that what he says and does is righteous and seek to understand why.
In the case for hell being eternal there is some support in scripture as the word translated “eternal” may be translated correctly and the wicked are resurrected from the dead as well as the righteous.
I believe that the wicked will suffer for an indefinite, but just time, possibly eternally. It is not for me to judge as God is the Judge and cannot be tempted by evil or do evil. The support for this belief is that the word translated “eternal” can also be translated “indefinite”. Jesus also taught some would be punished at a different level depending on the circumstances. He also taught the wicked would be destroyed.
Whatever the case God is just and it is Satan that seeks to anger us against him.
Kerwin,
Point of order…can indefinite be eternal, is this not an oxymoron?Besides, i believe that Shimmer has turned to belief, therefore her former 'misgivings' are 'forgiven'.
She should be honored and encouraged positively.
Shimmer is one, if not the only one, who has changed her views positively, in this forum. Most everyone else has had smatterings of 'refinements' but most hold to the views they hels when they entered the forum…or please say otherwise…any takers?
Therefore, the least little one in this forum, is way ahead of all the 'so called Gods' among us.
Justice and honor are due to her, but as little as she receives her, she is blessed with far greater things in the Spirit.
JustAskin,
Jesus encourages his students by serving as an example of one that has overcome the world.
John 16:33(NIV) reads:
Quote “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
We are taught that to be a son of God we must do the same and will do it by faith.
1 John 5:3-5(NIV) reads:
Quote This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is God that overcomes the desires of the flesh not us. The impure spirit presents no challenge to God as he shapes us into the image of his Son. Faith moves mountains after all.
1 John 4:4(NIV) reads:
Quote You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
Paul may well be speaking of obtaining full maturity in Christ as the most important race to the people of God is to be righteous as God is righteous.
2 Timothy 4:7(NIV) reads
Quote I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Just keep the faith that all things are possible for God.
Hebrews 12:1(NIV) reads:
Quote Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
Just Askin,
Indefinite means an unknown length of time that can be eternal. The destroyed on the other hand seems to sate eternal is not an option. Still, I believe that it is a vain dispute as such judgment is God's
I mere corrected Shimmer as her decision seems to be based on he judgment of God's character instead of seeking to understand the righteousness of his words and actions.
To ALL……….. Well according to brother T8, worship, honor, and praise should them be directed at all who are sons of GOD right, or have you not read where it says “NOW WE (ARE) THE SONS OF GOD”, that is all who have his spirit in them. For all who believe in him, he gave them the right to be called the SONS OF GOD> But your SEPARATIST VIEWS, separated Jesus from our identity with him, so you truly do not see the Sons of GOD as You see Jesus now do you?. All preexistences and Trinitarians are Idolaters, as Shimmer said you go to almost any Church or INTERNET Site and it all about Jesus you hardly ever hear anything about the Father and that is also true here, most all commits are about Jesus, But ALL of Jesus” Commits were about the “FATHER” and He Glorified Him and Said He could do nothing BY himself but the Father (IN) him does the works.
So to say preexistences and trinitarians who both believe in Jesus' preexistence and believe Jesus created all thing and believe he was some kind of super grade preexisting angle are all in one level or another, Idolaters, They all have made Jesus something other then a Ordinary human MAN who GOD (PERFECTED) And raised unto eternal Life, a Life which he never had before he was born a human being and was raised from the grave as all men must be to inherit eternal life. The Trinitarians and preexistences are all in the exact same boat they both make Jesus the Man into some other then a “ORDINARY MAN” and they accord him as the creator of all thing in one form or another,they both are separatists and separate Jesus from our exact identity as a human being. They have made Jesus the object of worship in nearly every “Christian” turned Apostate church in the whole world, Preexistences here try to shade it down somewhat, but the bottom line is they both, the Trinitarians and the Preexistences, are in the same Separatist boat no matter how T8 and Mike and JA try to cut it . That is what the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrist is all about , it is about the Separating of Jesus likeness from His brothers and sister, the whole Human race.
That is why Paul and John resisted it so much it is because of the damage it did to believers in God the Father and Jesus , these views distort our perception of who Jesus was and who GOD the Father is. It totally works to distort the operation of GOD in Mankind. All preexistence are Separatists and indeed are Antichrists rather they understand it or not.
To all……> if you want to see clearly and purely seen our brother Jesus as (exactly as you are) in (every way) Draw near to him and follow him take God's sacrifice and apply it to yourself and take his blood and apply it to yourself and the God of all will forgive you your sins and put you together with your brother Jesus in the heavenly's, understand that what God the Father did for Jesus he can (IN THE SAME WAY DO FOR YOU). Have the (FAITH) (OF) Jesus more then the faith (IN) Jesus and you will trust in the LORD GOD as He did. Remember Jesus was (GOD THE FATHERS) sacrifice for the sins of the world, Jesus was not his own sacrifice for the sins of the world but GOD the FATHERS , He was the LAMB offered once and for all for the Sins of the world. “HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD” and again “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD” there is no other God for any true believer. Let this mind be in you that was (IN) Jesus The Anointed SO OF MAN. Who believed and trusted in the (ONLY) True GOD> That mind Jesus had is the Same mind you can have by the same spirit, from the same GOD. If hat mind be (IN) You (IT) shall (ALSO) quicken your mortal (BODIES) as it did his. It the same thing no difference at all. Be ONE (WITH) JESUS Because he can be you and you can be Him all by the same GOD. This is what it means (I) (IN) YOU AND YOU (IN) ME , by the SAME GOD WORKING THE SAME THING IN BOTH (US AND JESUS), THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND IN YOU ALL.
peace and love to you all………………………………….gene
Gene, why do you bring 'trini' and 'preEx' into every post these days?
No one should worship Jesus. Full stop…period!
Only LU and some hardlined trini's believe otherwise. This has nothing to do with preExistence of Jesus.
It is off topic.
But, this has been gone through miriade times before.
It very simple… For LU:
Worship God only.
(Since trini's believe Jesus IS God you cannot do anything for THEM).Since Jesus is both Man and Spirit, no one can say, 'Worship Jesus because he has the Spirit of God, is Begotten of God', else, yes, we would also need to worhship those others of mankind who also become, 'Begotten of God', 'Sons of God, Heirs with Christ'.
Nothing more…why, why is this a problem with anyone?
Kerwin,
Yes, and eternal means, 'without end' (for the lexographers here: Note that 'Eternal', by itself, does not suggest an 'Everlasting Past', only an 'Everlasting Future'. Only by adding…a preposition such as 'From' can the meaning be change to point backwards to make it 'Past'. E.g. An 'everlasting noise' means, 'from when the noise …started… until forever. The noise was not 'everlastingly being made'. But, 'the noise was From Eternity', means just that, 'a noise that was Always there')Kerwin, i only asked for you to encourage Shimmer positively. Like asking her not to feel sorry when she posts scripturally wonderful posts. Encourage her to 'believe' in her Spiritualness, but remain in it, not go outside it as she grows.
That's all i meant. If that is what you also thought you were doing, then all is well.
Gene, your posts are the same regurgitated ideas that we have already rejected in favor of scripture.
Repeating them long enough isn't going to make it right or even brainwash us.
People who are brainwashed are that way because they choose to be.
We have the will to choose otherwise. We always do.Hi Kerwin, I have no idea what JA is talking about, please ignore him ? haha,
Scripture does say there is punishment for some, I agree, but eternal ? I believe there is confusion over words, 'outer darkness'.. God is light, God is love, seperation from God's love ? Weeping and knashing of teeth.. regret, dissapointment, loss, grief, frustration…could it mean?
God is a devouring fire, scripture says, thrown into the lake of fire is the second death. Death means death, nothing else. God gave the gift of eternal life, but not to all, the wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life, people will twist that to mean whatever they imagine it to mean, for many it's a matter of saving their own life, avoiding 'eternal torment' at all costs, but if they believe in that, what of love of neighbours ? How can they imagine their neighbours will be the ones eternally tormented while they are happy in heaven ?
There is no such word as eternal torment in scripture, it doesnt exist in the original, The Greek word is “aion”…which means age/for a time,
Please have a look at this,
Hi shimmer .
The most quoted verse in the bible sums it up.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH but have everlasting lifeWhen you do a check in scripture on the word 'perish', it means exactly what we think it means.
I believe that there is suffering for the wicked dead before judgement. I also believe that destruction of the wicked is a merciful act of God.
It would be cruel beyond belief to let them exist separate to God forever.Shimmer,
You wrote:
Quote How can they imagine their neighbors will be the ones eternally tormented while they are happy in heaven ?
You seem to miss my point which is that we are not to render the final judgment on our neighbor or to judge God's actions or word's.
If God judges that it is just and merciful to eternally torment our neighbor then he is right and I just do not understand his righteousness. As I explained to Just Askin I do not understand how one can suffer eternally and be destroyed at the same time. In addition such disputes seem vain for the most part as they lead us to judging God.
I have no business judging if or how long my neighbor suffers eternal torment or even if they are going to heaven. I can fear they will suffer the second death and warn them away from it and I can hope they are on the path to heaven and encourage them on that path. I cannot let my hopes and fears lead me to judge their final fate.
God has the authority, knowledge and righteousness to make the judgment while I do not.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2010,10:00) Shimmer, You wrote:
Quote How can they imagine their neighbors will be the ones eternally tormented while they are happy in heaven ?
You seem to miss my point which is that we are not to render the final judgment on our neighbor or to judge God's actions or word's.
If God judges that it is just and merciful to eternally torment our neighbor then he is right and I just do not understand his righteousness. As I explained to Just Askin I do not understand how one can suffer eternally and be destroyed at the same time. In addition such disputes seem vain for the most part as they lead us to judging God.
I have no business judging if or how long my neighbor suffers eternal torment or even if they are going to heaven. I can fear they will suffer the second death and warn them away from it and I can hope they are on the path to heaven and encourage them on that path. I cannot let my hopes and fears lead me to judge their final fate.
God has the authority, knowledge and righteousness to make the judgment while I do not.
Right on, kerwin…..second death means second death…….And God is the judge…..Hope ypur feeling well…….May God be with you….
Peace and Love Irene
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