Preexistence

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

Irene………Flesh and Blood can (not) enter the Kingdom of GOD because the Kingdom of GOD is Spiritual (INTELLECT) But the Kingdom of GOD (CAN) Inter into the Flesh and blood body though the Spirit (INTELLECT). “For the Kingdom of God come without observation it (IS) WITHIN YOU”, you can not Physically see it, it is Spiritually perceived. But we can percieve it Spiritually by our minds that are (IN) our Physical Bodies. Surely you understand this . The Kingdom of GOD was (IN) Jesus who had a Physical Body it is in all who spiritually percieve it.

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 19, 2010 at 12:21 am#220355

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Of course Ed would not have a free will, He has numbers to count. And the Kingdom is here already?MMMMMMMMM
Read my post to Gene…..Better read Rev, 19:13-16….Irene

October 19, 2010 at 12:32 am#220356

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,09:40)

Terricca…………And what do we have in you, a person who does not believe GOD can Predetermine anything, a GOD who Purposes He is to weak to carry out so He just leaves it all up to a us with our limited understanding because he thinks it is better for man by mans blind and captivated Wills to figure it all out. That is a Joke at best. Why do you “profess GOD but deny His POWER”, is that how your “FREE WILL” salvation works?. A joke at best if you ask me.

peace and love…………………………..gene

gene

predetermine and predeterminism are two different things;

and you are lying abode me because i never said what you say i did,

\god as determined everything even how to save man from sin,this is the reason that he give his son for ransom,

but we have to believe it first God does not force us to do it,

so we have to chose who to serve God or this world

Pierre

October 19, 2010 at 12:35 am#220357

shimmer

Participant

I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you, “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” The Jews were looking for an earthly kingdom and King but Jesus brought the spiritual kingdom to those who believed, and he will come again, just as he left, on the clouds, and his people will meet him in the air, the earth will be detroyed, what happens after that I dont know. But this is what I understand scripture to say.

Good points from you Irene. (concerning Genes belief in free will)…Gene, God never wanted robots, God first loved us and will not force his love on anyone, nor force us to obey, we have to do it out of our own free will. And also Gene although I recall there was evidence amongst the early church writings on everyone being saved, scripture has the destruction of people and the second death which means exactly what it says, in what I can see,

October 19, 2010 at 12:54 am#220360

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 18 2010,04:30)

Mke……..So let examine another Lie then………..You and the rest say Jesus was (the) Word of GOD right, You all quote John I:1 as Jesus being (the) word mentioned there right, But as i have brought out before it SAYS (“THE WORD (WAS) GOD”) So how can that be then if JESUS WAS (THE) definite article “WORD”. Why manipulate Scriptures to try to make it different from what it is Plainly is saying. “(THE) WORD WAS GOD” one and the same GOD was His WORDS< NOT Jesus who spoke those word (OF GOD) to Us , Therefore (the) WORD WAS GOD and With GOD was his WORDS, (NOT) JESUS. Jesus was the spokesman (BIG) difference, that has been my point all along From the very beginning being on this site. Jesus did not preexist as the WORD of GOD EVER, He is called that because He speaks GOD the FATHER WORD, to Us and that is the ONLY He is called that. That does not make him the WORDS He spoke at all no more then if i or you Spoke GODS word would make us the WORD either. IMO

peace and love…………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

Excellent Post!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 19, 2010 at 12:57 am#220362

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,11:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Of course Ed would not have a free will, He has numbers to count. And the Kingdom is here already?MMMMMMMMM
Read my post to Gene…..Better read Rev, 19:13-16….Irene

Hi Irene,

Please explain how Theomatics would discount “Free Will”?
Or is this another: everything that Irene doesn't believe if false?

October 19, 2010 at 1:00 am#220363

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,11:35)

Shimmmer, did you reasd Rev. 19:13-16
Here it is

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Rev 19:17 ¶ And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

That prophecy has not ben fullfilloed yet, and Gods kingdom will be here on the new earth.

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

Georg believes that the first resurrection has already happend and Christ is preparing the Saints to rule with Him here on earth…… I think that thinking the Kingdom of God is in us, is a concept taught be some Churches. But I don't think there is any Scripture that tells us that is true….. Unless I can see a Scripture that shows me that it is, I will not believe it. Prove all things……All those Scriptures I just gave is not here yet….. But it will one day….. Peace Irene

October 19, 2010 at 1:04 am#220365

terraricca

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,18:35)

shimmer

you say;;I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you.

could you explain this ?

“Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” could you also tell me wen this will happen??

Pierre

October 19, 2010 at 1:10 am#220366

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:57)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,11:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Of course Ed would not have a free will, He has numbers to count. And the Kingdom is here already?MMMMMMMMM
Read my post to Gene…..Better read Rev, 19:13-16….Irene

Hi Irene,

Please explain how Theomatics would discount “Free Will”?
Or is this another: everything that Irene doesn't believe if false?

Ed, you really believe that God wants us to obey Him by His will? If that would be the case, then yes all will be saved, because He does not want any to perish, however there will be many that will follow Satan into the Lake of Fire. if we would not have a free will that would not have to happen. Also were is there a Scripture that tells me there is no free will. We can do what we want, we can worship God out of Love if we want or not. That is our free will to do or not to do. We are free to do so….. We can be true to our Husbands or not. We can study the Word of God and believe in it, or not. In other words we have the choice to choose. That is our free will. Unless you can give me a Scripture that says differently I will forever believe this. And you have the choice and free will to believe me or not. Free my friend…. Irene

October 19, 2010 at 1:11 am#220368

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,12:00)

Shimmmer,

…I think that thinking the Kingdom of God is in us, is a concept taught be some Churches. But I don't think there is any Scripture that tells us that is true….. Unless I can see a Scripture that shows me that it is, I will not believe it. Prove all things……All those Scriptures I just gave is not here yet….. But it will one day….. Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

By your logic, how can 'you' prove that the “HolySpirit” is in you now?

October 19, 2010 at 1:19 am#220369

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,12:11)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,12:00)

Shimmmer,

Hi Irene,

By your logic, how can 'you' prove that the “HolySpirit” is in you now?

Ed, yes I can tell that God's Holy Spirit is in me, becasue of what happend to me after I waas bapized. I was not even aware that I was cusing up a storm. I was sitting on the Sewing Mashine and cusing and everytime I did, God's Holy Spirit showed me. The first year was amazing. Everytime I would say please show me my faults the Holy Sopirit of God would do so. That is a bad exapmle to disprove our free willl. And no Scripture either….Irene

October 19, 2010 at 1:26 am#220372

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,12:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:57)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,11:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Of course Ed would not have a free will, He has numbers to count. And the Kingdom is here already?MMMMMMMMM
Read my post to Gene…..Better read Rev, 19:13-16….Irene

Hi Irene,

Please explain how Theomatics would discount “Free Will”?
Or is this another: everything that Irene doesn't believe if false?

Ed, (1)you really believe that God wants us to obey Him by His will? (2)If that would be the case, then yes all will be saved, because He does not want any to perish, (3)however there will be many that will follow Satan into the Lake of Fire. (4)if we would not have a free will that would not have to happen. (5)Also were is there a Scripture that tells me there is no free will. (6)We can do what we want, we can worship God out of Love if we want or not. That is our free will to do or not to do. We are free to do so….. We can be true to our Husbands or not. We can study the Word of God and believe in it, or not. In other words we have the choice to choose. That is our free will. (7)Unless you can give me a Scripture that says differently I will forever believe this. (8)And you have the choice and free will to believe me or not. Free my friend…. Irene

Hi Irene,

1) Don't you believe God wants us to do his will? (Luke 22:42)

2) That is God's will! (2Peter 3:9 / 1Tm.2:4 / John 17:12)

3) Many people also fallow his false doctrines! (Zech.3:2)

Points number 4 and 5 are contradictory.

6) So you so believe in “Free Will”.

7) Free Will is biblical doctrine!

8) I believe what The Bible says; NOT YOU!

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 19, 2010 at 1:38 am#220374

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 18 2010,19:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2010,02:49)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 18 2010,01:25)

God and His word is one and the same thing. You have that right.

Hi Gene,

Then who is the “Word OF God” in Rev?

mike

Hi Mike,

The Word of God is “HolySpirit” everywhere in The Bible!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

So the Holy Spirit is the Word that became flesh and dwelled among us and had the glory of an only begotten Son?

Is that what you believe?

mike

October 19, 2010 at 1:54 am#220377

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 18 2010,22:45)

Mike, I'm working on it, your post.
Trying to find what the early church believed, what gnostics taught, etc, but it's hard because gnostics have so much information to read through,

Mike, most of christianity believe Jesus was risen in the flesh and will return in the same way, the ones who spiritualise it away are usually those who have reason to, example people who said Jesus would return but it never happened, then they say “He returned..In spirit” JWs are one example, we will see him with our “spiritual eyes”…Ed is another.

Hi Shimmer,

Take your time. Might I again suggest that instead of reading early church fathers and Googling “gnosticism”, you start with the holy scriptures?

What part of “flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God” is so hard to understand?

And you imply that I have some “hidden agenda”? My only agenda is studying the scriptures and believing them in an effort to “take in knowledge of the only true God and the Christ He sent”.

P.S. I don't know where you heard that about the JW's, but instead of believing whatever their enemies say about them, maybe you should ask one of them what they believe. I try to follow scripture to a “T”, and they come closer to how I understand scripture than any other group out there. I don't agree with their understanding on everything, but most things.

Anyway, “scripture, scripture, scripture!” It's not important what Gene or Ed or mikeboll or t8 or JA believe Shimmer. All that matters is whether your understanding is confirmed by the scriptures themselves.

peace and love,
mike

October 19, 2010 at 1:56 am#220378

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:02)

Either way one way the only difference is a CARNAL (Fleshly MIND) the Other, flesh With a SPIRITUAL MIND they BOTH are flesh Beings.

Hi Gene,

Why do you think Paul used the words “spiritual body” in contrast to a “natural body”?

And I'm still waiting for your response to my “John 1:1” post.

peace and love,
mike

October 19, 2010 at 2:02 am#220382

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,11:35)

I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you,

Hmmmmmm……….I wonder where Shimmer and Gene will go if they are judged acceptable by Jesus to enter into his God's Kingdom?

“Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God”, but apparently the Kingdom of God IS able to enter flesh.

mike

October 19, 2010 at 2:13 am#220384

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2010,12:38)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 18 2010,19:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2010,02:49)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 18 2010,01:25)

God and His word is one and the same thing. You have that right.

Hi Gene,

Then who is the “Word OF God” in Rev?

mike

Hi Mike,

The Word of God is “HolySpirit” everywhere in The Bible!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

So the Holy Spirit is the Word that became flesh and dwelled among us and had the glory of an only begotten Son?

Is that what you believe?

mike

Hi Mike,

Hope this helps you to understand…

Gory(77) = Christ(77)

John 1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us(in Jesus Christ),
(and we beheld his glory(in Jesus), the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 19, 2010 at 2:32 am#220390

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,12:26)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,12:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:57)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,11:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Of course Ed would not have a free will, He has numbers to count. And the Kingdom is here already?MMMMMMMMM
Read my post to Gene…..Better read Rev, 19:13-16….Irene

Hi Irene,

Please explain how Theomatics would discount “Free Will”?
Or is this another: everything that Irene doesn't believe if false?

Hi Irene,

1) Don't you believe God wants us to do his will? (Luke 22:42)

2) That is God's will! (2Peter 3:9 / 1Tm.2:4 / John 17:12)

3) Many people also fallow his false doctrines! (Zech.3:2)

Points number 4 and 5 are contradictory.

6) So you so believe in “Free Will”.

7) Free Will is biblical doctrine!

8) I believe what The Bible says; NOT YOU!

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed, yes He does, but some will not follow Him and will go into the Lake of Fire with Satan and Anti-Christ. That is their free will to do so. I will follow Christ as much as I can at my age…….. There is not a Church in our area that believes what we do. So were two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the mitts of you. Do not judge me…. or you are already judged by doing so….You don't believe like I do, and to you the Holy Spirit is The Word of God…. My Husband And I agree on all together…..Peace Irene

October 19, 2010 at 2:41 am#220394

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,13:32)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,12:26)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,12:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:57)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,11:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,11:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,02:32)

peace and love to you and Georg………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Spot on brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Of course Ed would not have a free will, He has numbers to count. And the Kingdom is here already?MMMMMMMMM
Read my post to Gene…..Better read Rev, 19:13-16….Irene

Hi Irene,

Please explain how Theomatics would discount “Free Will”?
Or is this another: everything that Irene doesn't believe if false?