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Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,13:08) Quote HI Jodi, Luke 2:49-50 references Jesus when he was 12 years old…
Luke 2:49-50 And he (Jesus) said unto them (Mary and Joseph), How is it that
ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.This are serious questions; Please answer them BOTH?
What does MY FATHER's BUSINESS mean?
and WHO was leading Jesus about?
Hi Ed J,
I believe that chapter itself gives the answers.
Luke 2:40 And the child grew , and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. 41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. 42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. 43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned , the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. 44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. 45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. 46 And it came to pass , that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions . 47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. 48 And when they saw him, they were amazed : and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold , thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
God's Spirit was upon Jesus and his Father's business was for him to learn.
Hi Jodi,I'm interested how information comes out after it goes through Jodi's filters,
I see you answered one of my questions, but have not yet answered this one…
and WHO was leading Jesus about?
Plus, the answer you gave does not address this verse contained in your Post…
Luke 2:47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Could you please NOW address this verse as well?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Aug. 18 2010,01:05) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 18 2010,00:51) Irene………A leopard can't change his spots nor and Ethiopian His Skin , neither can Terricca, change his captivated thoughts He thinks is a “FREE” WILL , when in fact he seems totally captivated with an accusative mind, which he falsely thinks is of GOD. IMO peace and love to you and Georg………………………….gene
Gene, I want to turn a leaf and don't criticise others. Even though I have stood up for some, it is so wrong to tear some down. We all should be more kinder and understanding others…. since I have your attention, I have German Bible and I was looking up John 1:1, I was surprised how they interpret verse 14, it actually said that the Word of God was the Son of God….which of course I agree with. Also I gave you the Scripture in Rev. 19:13-16 it says that The Word of God is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He also has on a robe dipped i blood. There is no other being that fits those Scriptures……
Peace to you and your, Irene
Gene! I find it rather strange that you did not respond to this post….. Why? Here I am proving to you that The Word of God is also mentioned in another Scripture besides John 1:1. It makes it clear that it is Jesus who was in the beginning with God before the world was. Through Him Jehovah God created all and nothing that is was created without Him. Also I gave you some Scriptures that say in the Old Test. that Jesus was present in Ancient times……
Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Aug. 18 2010,01:05) Gene, I want to turn a leaf and don't criticise others. Even though I have stood up for some, it is so wrong to tear some down. We all should be more kinder and understanding others…. since I have your attention, I have German Bible and I was looking up John 1:1, I was surprised how they interpret verse 14, it actually said that the Word of God was the Son of God….which of course I agree with. Also I gave you the Scripture in Rev. 19:13-16 it says that The Word of God is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He also has on a robe dipped i blood. There is no other being that fits those Scriptures……
Peace to you and your, Irene
Hi Irene,The German Bible was based on Martian Luther's prejudices,
hardly a call for you to try to build solid Scriptural doctrine on!The word ‘robe’ is no-where to be found in Rev.19:13?
Do you also ‘think’ Jesus had a name change? Get real.Rev.19:12-13 His eyes as a flame of fire, and on his head many crowns;
and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
and his(HolySpirit's) name is called The Word of God.The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIrene……….I have said many times Jesus was the Spokesmen of GOD'S Word to Us, He still will be when he comes. I have not problem with that never did. “FOR GOD SPOKE TO US IN TIMES PAST THROUGH THE PROPHETS HAS IN THESES LATTER DAYS SPOKEN TO US THROUGH A SON”. What you and others are failing to realize is the it was GOD SPEAKING (THOUGH) Him. You are attributing Jesus as the WORDS HE SPOKE, YOU are giving Him the Glory which Belongs to GOD Alone. If i were to send a person to tell some one exactly what i said to him and the person did it would those words be his or mine. Jesus delivered GOD'S WORDS to US, not (HIS WORDS).
Remember when He said the word i am telling you are (NOT) MY WORDS, but the WORDS of Him who sent ME. That alone should tell you the Word Jesus Spoke to us were (NOT) HIS WORDS. Him is called the word of GOD is because He spoke or was and is the SPOKESMAN of (GOD'S) Words to us not his Words. When you apply the Word Jesus Spoke to us as HIS Words then you are turning Him into a GOD, simply by giving him the credit for those Words, which he said were (NOT) His Words. Do you see my point here Irene?
peace and love to you and Georg and yours…………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 23 2010,01:32) Irene……….I have said many times Jesus was the Spokesmen of GOD'S Word to Us, He still will be when he comes. I have not problem with that never did. “FOR GOD SPOKE TO US IN TIMES PAST THROUGH THE PROPHETS HAS IN THESES LATTER DAYS SPOKEN TO US THROUGH A SON”. What you and others are failing to realize is the it was GOD SPEAKING (THOUGH) Him. You are attributing Jesus as the WORDS HE SPOKE, YOU are giving Him the Glory which Belongs to GOD Alone. If i were to send a person to tell some one exactly what i said to him and the person did it would those words be his or mine. Jesus delivered GOD'S WORDS to US, not (HIS WORDS). Remember when He said the word i am telling you are (NOT) MY WORDS, but the WORDS of Him who sent ME. That alone should tell you the Word Jesus Spoke to us were (NOT) HIS WORDS. Him is called the word of GOD is because He spoke or was and is the SPOKESMAN of (GOD'S) Words to us not his Words. When you apply the Word Jesus Spoke to us as HIS Words then you are turning Him into a GOD, simply by giving him the credit for those Words, which he said were (NOT) His Words. Do you see my point here Irene?
peace and love to you and Georg and yours…………………………………..gene
Gene! You make no sense. You say that you believe Rev. 19:13 yet you deny John 1:1 and verse 14 and the preexisting of Jesus. You say that in John 1:1 it is a plan of God and that plan became flesh? John who rode both Rev. and John so it means the same….I find that The Word is a title like God is. All the other Scriptures in John were Jesus said He came down from Heaven and that He had a glory, which He went back to from the beginning of all creation before the world was John 17:5. If The Word of God is in both Scriptures, it is the same. Remember you asked me to give you Scriptures from the Old Test. I did, I just can't find it where I posted that….. I remember one is in Micah,
I am getting old and my memory does not work as good as it did years ago….WJ said that there was a way that you could look it up, but that I can't find either….:):) But you know what, one day wee all will know exactly what is truth and what is not…No I am not giving Jesus the glory which God has. Jehovah God is Almighty God and Jesus is Mighty God……..The glory Jesus had is that He was a Spirit Being before He became a Man, just like the Angels are and they are not Jehovah God either are they? But Jesus is second in Command sort of speak. He sits on the right hand of the Father on His Throne and now has immortality, that was His reward for dying for us…..I will still search for those Scriptures, and if I find those Scriptures I will put them here, so you know were to find them OK…I was reading again what you said, OK I agree with you that Jesus will come again to teach all truths, but that has nothing to do with what He was before the world was. Those Scriptures you are ignoring, and by doing so calling Jesus a liar…. don't you see that? No I know…. But again one day you will…. And that takes nothing away from the glory of Jehovah God. But you are taking away and denying Scriptures, that my friend is wrong…..take the Scriptures and read them again and apply them the way the are written… Not your interpretation of them…. Yes, that is what you are doing….
Peace IreneQuote (JustAskin @ Aug. 16 2010,04:38) 800 pages. Try three thousand years, from before Christ, during Christ and until now!
I am talking about now and not then, but that is also true….IreneGene! I found the Scriptures of the Old Test. it is in Phil. 2:5 tread on age 37 if you want to know……Reading some of your posts makes me wonder if you really want to know…..Irene
PS This is the last time I am going to post to you about this subject, just like I am doing with Martian….. if you think that I am just saying and not go through with it….Gene, can I put it to you that the Logos that you say is a “plan” is much more than that. It is even much more than “word” and “reason”. It is God's “divine expression” and Jesus is that divine expression.
The thing is, that you do not even believe that he existed with divine nature and emptied himself and existed in human nature after that.Even we are expressions of God. That is why we will have a name that no one but us and God will know. It is also why names have meanings like “mighty”, “God like”, “Beloved”. You see, even we are meant to be expressions of God.
And you also need to know that the Logos was WITH God. Whereas a mere plan is IN God.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2010,13:29) Gene, can I put it to you that the Logos that you say is a “plan” is much more than that. It is even much more than “word” and “reason”. It is God's “divine expression” and Jesus is that divine expression.
The thing is, that you do not even believe that he existed with divine nature and emptied himself and existed in human nature after that.Even we are expressions of God. That is why we will have a name that no one but us and God will know. It is also why names have meanings like “mighty”, “God like”, “Beloved”. You see, even we are meant to be expressions of God.
And you also need to know that the Logos was WITH God. Whereas a mere plan is IN God.
t8 I have tried for so long to make Gene understand, however even after I produced Scriptures in the Old Test. like Proverbs 8:22-30 and Micah, He just ignores plain Scriptures and does not even believe what Jesus said in John. I give up……You can't do it if God does not what Him to see it….when your blind your blind, and when it is the will of God that you will see it, you will. Peace IreneQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 23 2010,01:16) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 18 2010,01:05) Gene, I want to turn a leaf and don't criticise others. Even though I have stood up for some, it is so wrong to tear some down. We all should be more kinder and understanding others…. since I have your attention, I have German Bible and I was looking up John 1:1, I was surprised how they interpret verse 14, it actually said that the Word of God was the Son of God….which of course I agree with. Also I gave you the Scripture in Rev. 19:13-16 it says that The Word of God is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He also has on a robe dipped i blood. There is no other being that fits those Scriptures……
Peace to you and your, Irene
Hi Irene,The German Bible was based on Martian Luther's prejudices,
hardly a call for you to try to build solid Scriptural doctrine on!The word ‘robe’ is no-where to be found in Rev.19:13?
Do you also ‘think’ Jesus had a name change? Get real.Rev.19:12-13 His eyes as a flame of fire, and on his head many crowns;
and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
and his(HolySpirit's) name is called The Word of God.The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed! And who said that? The German Bible is very much like the KJV, and I have found that most line up with it……however I mostly use my KJV of the Bible…..BTW who are you to judge that Bible anyway, There is nothing wrong with it….. I very seldom use it anyway…….Are you German and do you speak the language? I do….
IreneQuote (t8 @ Sep. 23 2010,13:29) Gene, can I put it to you that the Logos that you say is a “plan” is much more than that. It is even much more than “word” and “reason”. It is God's “divine expression” and Jesus is that divine expression.
The thing is, that you do not even believe that he existed with divine nature and emptied himself and existed in human nature after that.Even we are expressions of God. That is why we will have a name that no one but us and God will know. It is also why names have meanings like “mighty”, “God like”, “Beloved”. You see, even we are meant to be expressions of God.
And you also need to know that the Logos was WITH God. Whereas a mere plan is IN God.
T8………Are your words (IN) YOU are the part of You, if not them why will we be Judged by them. And if they are, do they not compose your thoughts and Plans. Your logic fails Brother.You say LOGOS is more then WORDS, an Reason, But the definition of Logos (IN) WORDS. But as all Trinitarians and Preexistences do you make MORE out of it then its meaning is. GODS words are divine because GOD is Divine and He and His Words are one and the SAME THING> Jesus is NOT GOD nor is he GODS WORD, He is the Spokesmen of GODS WORDS to US, Just as the Prophets WERE ALSO> ” God who at different times spoke to us through the prophets has in these latter days spoken to us through a Son. Just that simple we do not need to add any thing to that, now do we?.
By the way Please fix my editing rights so i can correct some of my spelling errors.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
I find it so ironic, when someone says something and for you to produce Scritures and then ignore it…. I think they just don't want the truth, or they would have responded….. So many Scriptures that prove the preexisting of Jesus and they all are interpret according to their doctrines. The trinity has nothing to do with it. That is another ironic understand that only t he word of God is in John 1:1 and then in verse 14 that became flesh. God's word did not become flesh it was Jesus who became flesh. He emptied Himself and then became our Savior. No other Human could ever acompplish that. God had to send someone who He knew would never sin. Jesus knew where He came from otherwise He could have never said what He did in John 17:5. That too is being taken out of context. And Jesus Himself said that He came from Heaven and that too is not being dealt with. Firstborn of all creation He is first to die and be resurrected and first brought forth by His Father. Even though Proverbs is dealing with Jesus that too is not being taken in the right way. Wisdom was never born, God always had wisdom, so how can Wisdom also be a master craftsman. He was the Fathers delight. And then we have the Scriptures out of the Old Test. And that too has never dealt with. What I just can't understand how so many of you ignore plain Scriptures and make them into what YOU want them to say….. t8 has such a good article on this subject, but that too was ignored…..I hope and pray that some of you might see it soon….Until then I will say to all of you good bye…I just can't give you all Scriptures over and over again and do what you have done……..Peace Irene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2010,02:53) T8………Are your words (IN) YOU are the part of You, if not them why will we be Judged by them. And if they are, do they not compose your thoughts and Plans. Your logic fails Brother.
Exactly.And now understand that my words are not WITH me. They are part of me and I can express them to others.
God's full expression is Christ. He is the image of the invisible God and the fullness of the deity in bodily form or the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2010,14:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2010,02:53) T8………Are your words (IN) YOU are the part of You, if not them why will we be Judged by them. And if they are, do they not compose your thoughts and Plans. Your logic fails Brother.
Exactly.And now understand that my words are not WITH me. They are part of me and I can express them to others.
God's full expression is Christ. He is the image of the invisible God and the fullness of the deity in bodily form or the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
t8 So what you are saying then , that John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13-16 is indeed Jesus? That is what I believe and explaining that the way you just did, is excellent. However will Gene understand this? I finally decided that no matter what I say to Him is fruitless, He just ignores plain Scriptures like the one in John 17:5 and John 6:38, which BTW I got those Scriptures from your article……Through it I learned a lot…. Thank you Peace to you IreneT8……….So you do agree then that a Word is Part of the man himself right. OK now If i sent a person to you telling you my Words, are those words HIS or MINE. Gods Words are a part of God not someone else no matter who speaks them. Gods words were given to Jesus to speak them to us. But they were (NOT HIS WORDS) He was speaking, so he himself is (NOT) the Words He Spoke, He spoke GOD'S Words to US Not HIS WORDS. Those words came to Be in this flesh man Jesus and this flesh man spoke them to us, Just like the prophets did that does not, make them the WORD they spoke because it did not originate from them. Those word can be in us as well as they were in Jesus by the same Spirit.
T8……….Can't you see you shift the Glory from GOD the FATHER to Jesus a MAN , God indeed was (IN) HIM but that does not makes HIM the GOD that Was (IN) HIM, that is the Same with the WORD He Spoke to US they were (NOT) HIS WORDS, But trying to make Jesus be the WORD He spoke Himself is stealing Glory fro GOD, And God give his glory to NO MAN> If you believe there is ONE GOD you do well and If you believe Jesus represent that GOD you are right , but if you believe Jesus is the GOD he represented you are in error even if you believe He is the word He spoke you are still in error. Jesus is the Spokesman of GOD to US He is the First (BORN) from man kind to enter into eternal life a Perfect Example to Us in EVERY WAY. What i would like to know is why do so many separates Jesus from themselves as some one so different. The false teaching of the Trinitarians and Preexistences are the teaching that (SEPARATE) us from Jesus and they work God has done in the man Jesus, these teaching are indeed Antichrist.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:13) T8……….So you do agree then that a Word is Part of the man himself right. OK now If i sent a person to you telling you my Words, are those words HIS or MINE. Gods Words are a part of God not someone else no matter who speaks them. Gods words were given to Jesus to speak them to us. But they were (NOT HIS WORDS) He was speaking, so he himself is (NOT) the Words He Spoke, He spoke GOD'S Words to US Not HIS WORDS. Those words came to Be in this flesh man Jesus and this flesh man spoke them to us, Just like the prophets did that does not, make them the WORD they spoke because it did not originate from them. Those word can be in us as well as they were in Jesus by the same Spirit. T8……….Can't you see you shift the Glory from GOD the FATHER to Jesus a MAN , God indeed was (IN) HIM but that does not makes HIM the GOD that Was (IN) HIM, that is the Same with the WORD He Spoke to US they were (NOT) HIS WORDS, But trying to make Jesus be the WORD He spoke Himself is stealing Glory fro GOD, And God give his glory to NO MAN> If you believe there is ONE GOD you do well and If you believe Jesus represent that GOD you are right , but if you believe Jesus is the GOD he represented you are in error even if you believe He is the word He spoke you are still in error. Jesus is the Spokesman of GOD to US He is the First (BORN) from man kind to enter into eternal life a Perfect Example to Us in EVERY WAY. What i would like to know is why do so many separates Jesus from themselves as some one so different. The false teaching of the Trinitarians and Preexistences are the teaching that (SEPARATE) us from Jesus and they work God has done in the man Jesus, these teaching are indeed Antichrist.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,No matter how much Scripture Is presented illustrating “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”,
at the end of the day (it seems) that the systems of religions win out with some?The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.This is the truth of the matter
; but still I must endeavor to try!
It's a Good thing that this point is NOT critical to their salvation!John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting (John 17:3 / John 3:16):
whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.John 14:24 HAS THE SAME WORDING “The Word” AS IN JOHN 1:1!
Why is these FACTS overlooked or diminished by some believers?John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
and “The Word”([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) which ye hear
is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,02:13) T8………. Those word can be in us as well as they were in Jesus by the same Spirit.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That
man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Mathew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man
shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that
proceedeth out of “The Mouth of God” (YHVH).Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought
beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall
be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HolySpirit.
Luke 12:12 For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Mathew10:12 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGene, Logos is translated as Word. But it is much more than mere words and includes, reason, wisdom, etc.
It is a divine expression and guess what? Jesus is the fullest (visible) expression of God. Even the attribute of wisdom was given birth and was the craftsman at God's side. This ties in with the Logos was WITH God. And again, that Wisdom and the Logos were what God created all things through. And we know that Jesus is Wisdom from God and the Logos of God. Finally scripture even confirms that God made all things through Jesus Christ in case you had any doubt.
t8 I find it so ironic when you corner them with logic, they won't respond, at least not until now. Time will tell if Gene will or not….Even Rev. `9:13-16 didn't make a difference to Him. Just denying or He will not answer at all…..Peace Irene
Quote (Baker @ Sep. 25 2010,21:22) t8 I find it so ironic when you corner them with logic, they won't respond, at least not until now. Time will tell if Gene will or not….Even Rev. `9:13-16 didn't make a difference to Him. Just denying or He will not answer at all…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,You mean like you continually ignoring Scripture I present to you?
“Father: The Word“ = “HolySpirit“
Isaiah means: “Ya (YHVH=63) is Savior”
Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”! Why don't you at least try to refute this since you don't believe? (Mark 4:12)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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