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Quote (Jodi @ July 20 2007,08:38) Thanks Nick, but I don't see Psalms 2 in the same light.
Let's look again-1 Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and his anointed, saying, 3 “Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us.” 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord has them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 “I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill.”
Is this not talking about when Christ comes to set up the Kingdom?
7 I will tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have begotten you. 8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
Once again this sounds to me like the time when God sends Jesus down to destroy the existing governments and set up His.
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, with trembling 12 kiss his feet, or he will be angry, and you will perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Happy are all who take refuge in him.
Here the rulers are being warned that Jesus will come to take over, and that they’d better be ready to follow him, or else they will be destroyed.
The Psalm, I believe is talking about when Jesus takes over at the beginning of the thousand years.
I might need to re-evaluate, but upon reading some scriptures awhile back, I was led to believe that the reason why many Jews did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah was because they were expecting him to overtake the world right then and there. They did not know that he needed to die for their sins. They were expecting the Messiah, when he came the first time, to restore their nation and richly bless them. When he did not do this, they claimed him to be a false Messiah.
Jody you are correctomendo!Amen!
NH
You say…
Quote
What do others think?Jody properly interprets the scripture here!
But I see you are still grasping for a scripture that says Jesus was a Son before he was born a Son I see!
Hi J,
Rev 20
” 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. “
Ps 2 seems to speak of this time when Christ with God is already ruling and his cords of authority are around the world leaders who would break out of them.
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Nick…..you and I both know that a time is comming whrn Jesus' kingdom will be setup on earth, better known as the mellanial regin of Christ , a thousand year period when He will regin with all the saints also, a perfect kingdom will be the outcome i.e,: the lion will eat straw like a ox and a little child shall lead then.And satan will be bound for the thousand year period. why was satan not completely destroyed at the beginning of this perfect kingdom and why did almost the whole earth follow him when he was released, i maean after all Jesus and the saints were ruling weren't they, what is God's point by allowing this to happen.
the answer is the Father want's us all to know, no matter how perfect a kingdom made up of righteousness is, unless He is in you it will not last and his proof is what will happen at the end of the melannial reign of Christ Jesus.You remember where it say's and they shall ware out the Saints of the Most High, how do you tell a person walking in all of God's way's you need to be saved inorder to truly live right, they would simply say we do live right and they are living right, but it's because there is no evil influance and the only influence is good( Jesus and the Saints) it was easy for them to do good, but in time they began to think the were really righteous themselves, it's easy when the only influence is good, but what happened when the evil influnce was released, they went the wrong way, this proves a great point that if God is not in you you cannot maintain righteousness. we must be YOKED with the Father as Jesus was, then He will Keep us.
Hi Gene,
God had a problem in heaven as well as on earth-SIN.
So everything God is doing in His plan is to do with purging heaven and earth of all sin.
One third of the angels in heaven are opposed to God and serve Satan and they must be expelled.
Satan is the god of this world and men must ever be given the choice of whom they will serve and this happens until it is all completed and God again rules a restored Kingdom enlivened by His Pure and Holy Spirit.
Life is a crucible that burns away all slag of sin.This topic is interesting, have been studying it for some time now. My Husband has given my these Scriptures
Col. 1:18 “And He is the head of the body, the church 'who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the Preeminence.”The meaning of the word -Preeminence-, is simply to be first in everything and before everything;
Col. 1:15 “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.”
Rev. 3:14 “…These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”
James Moffat Bible says this in
Prov. 8:12 ” the Eternal formed me first of His creation, first of all His works in days of old.”
verse 23 “I was fashioned in the earliest ages, from the very first, when earth began.”
verse 24 “I was born when there were no abysses, when there were no fountains full of water.”
verse 25 ” Ere He sunk the basis or the mountains, ere the hills existed, I was born.”
verse 26 “When earth and fields were not created, nor the very first clods of the world.”
verse 27 ” When He set the haven up, I was there, when He drew the Vault o'er the abyss.”
verse 28 ” When He made the clouds firm overhead, when He fixed the fountains of the deep.”
verse 29 ” When He set the boundaries of the sea, when He laid foundations for the earth.”
verse 30 ” I was with Him then, His foster child, I was His delight day after day, playing in His present constantly.”
Please give me your opinion. Thank you for all your Posts
Mrs.IM4TruthHey WJ,
Have you read any more of the Apostolic Father's writings? Some of it is bizarre, especially Justin Martyr. If I had to guess, he would be one of the original ones to lead to the belief that Yeshua was an angel. He didn't really say it in so many words, but his debate with a Jew kinda gave that feel.
Quote (Jodi @ July 19 2007,21:38) Thanks Nick, but I don't see Psalms 2 in the same light.
Let's look again-1 Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and his anointed, saying, 3 “Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us.” 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord has them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 “I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill.”
Is this not talking about when Christ comes to set up the Kingdom?
7 I will tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have begotten you. 8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
Once again this sounds to me like the time when God sends Jesus down to destroy the existing governments and set up His.
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, with trembling 12 kiss his feet, or he will be angry, and you will perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Happy are all who take refuge in him.
Here the rulers are being warned that Jesus will come to take over, and that they’d better be ready to follow him, or else they will be destroyed.
The Psalm, I believe is talking about when Jesus takes over at the beginning of the thousand years.
I might need to re-evaluate, but upon reading some scriptures awhile back, I was led to believe that the reason why many Jews did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah was because they were expecting him to overtake the world right then and there. They did not know that he needed to die for their sins. They were expecting the Messiah, when he came the first time, to restore their nation and richly bless them. When he did not do this, they claimed him to be a false Messiah.
Personally, Jodi, I don't see any need for you to re-evaluate.
You got it spot on IMHO!hi not 3 you asked.
Have you been a Christian long? Would you share your personal testimony with us when you have a chance? Your vision sounds interesting. Are you saying that along with Christ, we also had a former existence but forgot it so me will anser some, begining with me was born a christian given to god at birth for him to be my father,asked jesus into my heart at a very young age,yet me still did what me wanted to in disobedeance.me remember one time god told ,me not to go with one of my friends,and me chose not to listen and go any way,and no sooner than me took 10 steps to croos the road a bolt of lightning came down between me and my friends ,right in front of me ,thank god me not cross eyed from it.so any ways me dident go with my friends.as me grew in my faith and love for jesus ,he did many awsome things,thru me in the name of jesus.yet me dident realy know him,me just had faith that he was and he loved me,even when me dident diserve his love.that is what led me to want to realy know him ,but not thru man or any comentary,from him, he would be my teacher,so jesus gave me to the father and led me to him for he is the truth,so when me first started seeking him he had me not speak for a time that he might harness my toung,then he showed me my hole life,and how my sin had efected the world,wow,he showed me how to speak,without ofending him that me could dwell in his presence ,he gave me a new heart and showed me his heart,so me and my wife who is equaly yoked with me,changed our langage for him,destroyed,all the vain images,pictures and stuff,wow what a fire that was.then we went out to the place god chose to put his name,and built him a pile ao unhewn stones, alter or whatever you want to consider it,and he placed his name there,and came down to sup with us,and love us ,showed us all things,now and to come.any ways it all started from true repentance,seeking him and realy wanting to know him.being willing to do whatever he asked even if it made no since to me,even though it went against all the traditions me was taught all my life, what does it matter what man thinks ?,follow god in all things,he showed me his love as a father,yet he also showed me that he is my lord ,master,and owner,me remember one time,some devil woshipers,wanted me to give them names of power out of my bible, names of demons that they might have power on earth,ect… me said why satin is as nothing compared to god,(this was before me knew god the way me do now,).and told them to cast all of there most powerful things on me and it will all be of not,for jesus is awesome,and greater than your lame demons,satan is weak,in jesus name me is safe,well it wasent until all these things came upon me that me thought,oh yes,me shouldent test god,the spiritual attack was very heavy,there was wrighting on the walls every where in hy house curses,then satin came and tried to steal away everything god had done for me in my life,by takeing credit for all the things god had done,so me told him he was a liar,for me knew it was god who had done these wonders .the attack was heavy and god let me there awile,but when he came,he just said one word like thunder,and all was clear,his presence was so overpowering so awesome,then he showed me some things,but above all the lesson me learned is not to test god for he could have left me there in that state of dispare,and hopelessness,yet he cleared the room,the block,me dont know ,but they were gone.right after this experiance me went out,and he showed me things,for me could see spirtual things,casting out demons,healing the sick, yet these were just works.god wants obedeance not sacrifice,so all me did was ask him about his law and his name,and he showed me, aLL so easy ,if you arent of this world and dont care what man thinks,any how me could write many words many books,but that will not help man to see the things god showed me for he wants to show you things also he just wants you to seek him,and love him he is your teacher not me not any man,so follow god!his 10 commandments that he spoke audibly to man,for jesus did! so repent and follow him with your hole hart, that you may know him,for if you dont know him you dont realy know jesus,but you serve the anticrist,like me once did thru sin.dont wait til the last day for him to say i never knew you.love him now .yes me believe we all came out from him,we have always been with him for we are sons and gods and if we were not so decieved we could fly,or even move mountains,for mans phisical laws only have power over those who sin.did mans law of gravity have any efect on jesus,for he walked on water,there are many other acounts of righteouss men who were not under mans law of sin and death.who are these who fly hmmm.dont misss the boat.if we came out from god but were born into sin we had a imeadiate seperation from the father who we have always known,as soon as we were born,then we forgot about him,why do you think he said we could learh from little childern because some still remember him,because they havent fully transformed into this world of sin, sin is the seperation from god,jesus was born without sin for he had no earthly father to pass down the sin but the heavenly father who is pure.so jesus never left the preasence of the lord,to forget him.we are part of him,now you could say if we are part of him then there are many gods,but me believe there is only one god,the father who we are all part of,but does that make us god,? noSome Thoughts
If we hold to the right Jesus, as there is an Image of him set up, that deceives the Nations to perish without understanding?
Then we should also acknowledge Jesus’s prophecy, from his own Mouth, above any other, if with understanding, one that is working to prove him as the one that shall return in the visible for the condemnation of this generation,
We are the body of Christ on this earth, we are to be him on the earth working his fathers will?his life was the spirit of prophecy, we have his spirit always.
He prophesied, from his own mouth that the Men of Nineveh shall return to condemn this generation, that it may suggest that he himself would want us to examine and entertain at this time the first man from preexisting life, that gained reward and salvation before he, christ, even walked and died on earth, from their faithfulness, that salvation had come from God, before the cross, these predestinated to come, return, to condemn the unbelieving, by the word of christ, And this time it will be known it is preexisting peoples that walked the earth once, And How one Man saved a whole city single handed, after he saw corruption in the body of whale, (Died and was risen) and went and preached to a city, and as Jesus did also, (But Jesus preached and then died ) and this next time the city that saw corruption believing and repenting on Jonas word, shall return and do the same with us, that the knowledge of the resurrection of the dead shall become an enigma, something that this generation will not be able to ignore.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.Salvation pre granted for these people, their Great and terrible Judge completed gone past, their lives were judged ,that Christ may confirm them as the redeemed of the Lord, (before he was taken killed on the cross),he propheside, these things, while he (Jesus) lived and walked and breathed, and he could have called ten thousand saints to his side, the already redeemed of God, he had faith that he was incorrutible
they mocketh themselves to even try to attempt his destruction, for he is eternal as an Image of God, no man can reach forth an beleive in a sane mind that they may destroy Gods everlasting ness(one God that opens graves,unto regenerations, even his first Sons grave) then I was charged to find, That Jesus should be the first begotten of these Sons,(Jonas)for the Baby is the end of journey Life began incorruptable, the first sent, of them that slept, to prolong his life raised again, having become the first man to swallowed up an conquer the power of second death, because he was incorruptiable
Rom 1:8 ¶ First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2007,10:25) Hi Gene,
God had a problem in heaven as well as on earth-SIN.
So everything God is doing in His plan is to do with purging heaven and earth of all sin.
One third of the angels in heaven are opposed to God and serve Satan and they must be expelled.
Satan is the god of this world and men must ever be given the choice of whom they will serve and this happens until it is all completed and God again rules a restored Kingdom enlivened by His Pure and Holy Spirit.
Life is a crucible that burns away all slag of sin.
nick…..> the problem was God wanted everyone to have their own will and be free to express their will's but the angles used their freedom to rebell against God, and a third fallowed the leader who was the fallen lucifer, who wanted to be a God himself with all the power and authority that goes with being A God, this rebellion was the act of freewill. The Father saw leaving his creation to thenselves without proper restranites and guidence would ultimately lead to destruction, He only is the ultimate Good. But desiring to have childern to enjoy life with, He created man in His image and gave him dominion over the creation He created< He know that for that to happen it couldn't be an instant creation because to be like Him it would require some exposure to things. like good and evil for instance, think about it , how could we know good without experience evil, because evil tell's us what good is and good defines evil, this knowledge was needed to teach us, and it required exposure to bring it about, so He used a fallen angle named satan to bring it about, Satan is you might say a catelist to speed up the reaction that without it may have taken us thousands of year for each person to aquire enough experience to learn the lessons. The Father gives us life and then lets us gradually lose it, our eye site, hearing, youth, our bodies and eventually our lives, why, because how else could He really teach us to appreicate ,life, our site,hearing and ect.,except give them to us and take them away again, it instills in us a sense of appreation, He Can always give them back again only this time we will really appricate them. Everything is working out in a marvilous way.
there's hope for everyone,,,,..Bless you all…..geneQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2007,16:16) Hi not3,
No superbrain. He too had to be transformed by renewing of his mind according to what is written by the inspiration of the Spirit.
Now we aspire to the mind of Christ
I'm curious, does the OT teach that you must renew your mind by the Spirit?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2007,21:25) The ANOINTED is the Messiah or the CHRIST.
He is shown in the Psalm to be the appointed ruler of the earth.
Twice in the verse he is identified as the Son of God.That is why it caused so much offense to the enemies of God.
The above quote is referring to Psalm 2.Nick, Psalm 2 is prophetic. I know we disagree and that is OK.
The reason I believe it is prophetic is because, as you say, the Psalm points out that the Messiah is the appointed ruler of the earth………..when he was on earth, was he a ruler? Or did he become a ruler after he was acsended; when he returns to earth! Yes, a ruler, but in the future.
Quote (Jodi @ July 20 2007,08:38) Thanks Nick, but I don't see Psalms 2 in the same light.
Let's look again-1 Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and his anointed, saying, 3 “Let us burst their bonds asunder, and cast their cords from us.” 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord has them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 “I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill.”
Is this not talking about when Christ comes to set up the Kingdom?
7 I will tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have begotten you. 8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
Once again this sounds to me like the time when God sends Jesus down to destroy the existing governments and set up His.
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, with trembling 12 kiss his feet, or he will be angry, and you will perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Happy are all who take refuge in him.
Here the rulers are being warned that Jesus will come to take over, and that they’d better be ready to follow him, or else they will be destroyed.
The Psalm, I believe is talking about when Jesus takes over at the beginning of the thousand years.
I might need to re-evaluate, but upon reading some scriptures awhile back, I was led to believe that the reason why many Jews did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah was because they were expecting him to overtake the world right then and there. They did not know that he needed to die for their sins. They were expecting the Messiah, when he came the first time, to restore their nation and richly bless them. When he did not do this, they claimed him to be a false Messiah.
Sister,
I agree with what you have written here. I have been trying to explain that Psalm 2 speaks of events that have not yet taken place. You do a wonderful job. Thank you.Hi not3
Jer 31
“33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
This is the work of the Spirit of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2007,09:38) Hi J,
Rev 20
” 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. “
Ps 2 seems to speak of this time when Christ with God is already ruling and his cords of authority are around the world leaders who would break out of them.
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
“Seems to speak……”Nick, I have been reading about inference today. I know there is a seperate thread for this topic, but as it relates to your ideas of Pslam 2 and Jesus preexisting, let me say this:
You have taken a few verses from Rev. and mixed them with your ideas of what you think Psalm 2 is saying. This is inference, deduction, deducing and by reason of logic.
Believe what is simply written. To believe otherwise is to count on your own intellect and wisdom. Do the scriptures come out and say explicitly that Jesus preexisted? No? That don't believe it! Don't count on your own deductions to make it so.
Michaels,
Thank you for sharing your testimony, brother. God bless you and your wife as you follow the LORD and his Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2007,16:51) Hi not3
Jer 31
“33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
This is the work of the Spirit of God.
This is my ignorance showing, but oh well – Did Jesus read Jeremiah? Do you think he understood from this passage that he needed to renew his mind? HmmmmPlus, if Jesus had the Spirit without measure, why would he need to renew his mind? He was “annointed” at baptism, but being the Son of God – don't you think he had the Spirit of God already in his life and a part of who he was? I do.
.
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