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Marty,
My forgiveness of your error is by way of you admitting the error (as you have done) and learning from it – therefore, you are forgiven, by your own deed!
More Nonesense from Nick. Do you really have nothing else to do?
Scriptures says “Whomever you forgive on Earth, God will forgive in Heaven”.
Is that Ok, or do we need you approval?
Moreover, I said that his own deeds had caused him to be forgiven!!!
Nick,
Step out of yourself for a second and check my Posts….
Check them with Nick's whajamacallit's off and you see something different – you looking to close in and reading word by word and not seeing the whole sentence and paragraph in one.
See the deeper elements of the posts – you just looking on the surface. JustAskin post multilayered – Reread the posts with deeper comprehension (if that is possible) and you see there is more than one message there in each.
Quote (JustAskin @ July 14 2010,02:42) Gene,
Jesus was not “EXACTLY” like us. Jesus was SINLESS, We are NOT.
Jesus came to REMOVE the base SIN in man that condemned him from birth so that what was left was man's own PERSONAL sin that he undertakes in his Life.Jesus showed us how it is possible to BE Sinless but Sin in Man is so strong that even the strongest in Faith sins – But He did not leave us stranded for all that but left us the promise of forgiveness for those who, as many as, and more than, 70 times 70 times 70 times sinned against a brother, can be forgiven.
The 'secret' is FAITH, faith as small as a Mustard seed.
Then after Faith, Works.
Then after Works, Hope…
JA…………..If Jesus was not (EXACTLY) Like us then we all have an excuse for our sins and there is not need to look to Jesus as an example because we simply are not like Him and we could therefore never attain the the “full stature” of Christ. God Has fail miserably in his plan to save mankind because who He saved was not rally from Mankind , but a scam of pretending to be like we are.So why should i trust in what Jesus did or says because after all he was nothing like Me. When Jesus said be of “good cheer because i have over come”, O well, whats that got to do with me, what else would you expect a demigod or preexisting super perfect being to do anyway, no big deal right. So goes the logic created by preexistences .
Can you begin to see the falseness of that teaching, If it were true Jesus preexisted it would simply prove nothing to anyone, not even GOD or Man. People who preach Preexistences are of the Antichrist as John plainly said brother. Preexistences are denying Jesus Humanity.
They do not connect with Jesus on any level as a human being. They have moved Jesus' likeness away from themselves. He will not come for them because they are not really His own. They have separated Him from themselves. IMO Think about it JA.
peace and love…………………gene
Nick,
Here's the baseline.
I recognise you have a neurological illness.
It is clear from your posts that anything more than three lines (Hidden meaning there) is a problem and no amount of anything will move your Ass, not even my Carrot that is just sprouting would do that even in it's fullness of time.
You are therefore 'off the 'hook'.
Please claim a victory over JustAskin – and be happy – not many, if any, can say that!
Gene,
Have you been to a Gym.
Have you had swimming lessons;
…sailing Lessons;
…been a student;
…Had driving lessons;
…Training in a job;
…got a Father;
…Rabbi, Parson, Vicar….?Were these “Professional” exactly Like You:
– Unable to Exercise correctly without hurting themselves by incorrect use of the equipment;
– needing a 'Float' round their waist in the water;
– unable to understand the lessons they teach;
– Crash their vehicle as they teach you to drive…
– … you get the picture.Where they EXACTLY like you. Should they have been?
Why should the PERFECT Teacher not be EXACTLY like the student but yet able to EMPATHISE with their struggle while they are learning?
Why should the “Perfect” Teacher, himself BE “Perfect” (Self answering rhetorical question!)Quote (JustAskin @ July 14 2010,10:23) Gene, Have you been to a Gym.
Have you had swimming lessons;
…sailing Lessons;
…been a student;
…Had driving lessons;
…Training in a job;
…got a Father;
…Rabbi, Parson, Vicar….?Were these “Professional” exactly Like You:
– Unable to Exercise correctly without hurting themselves by incorrect use of the equipment;
– needing a 'Float' round their waist in the water;
– unable to understand the lessons they teach;
– Crash their vehicle as they teach you to drive…
– … you get the picture.Where they EXACTLY like you. Should they have been?
Why should the PERFECT Teacher not be EXACTLY like the student but yet able to EMPATHISE with their struggle while they are learning?
Why should the “Perfect” Teacher, himself BE “Perfect” (Self answering rhetorical question!)
Hope you do not mind me chiming in. Let’s look at your questions.Have you been to a Gym.
Reply-
Yes and I look at the muscles on the instructor and the results and know that he uses steroids and I do not. I cannot get the same results because he is not the same as me.Have you had swimming lessons;
Reply-
Yes but if my teacher is a dolfin I cannot swim like it and never will.Ect ect
Where they EXACTLY like you. Should they have been?
Reply –
Yes they need to be exactly like us to get the same results.Why should the PERFECT Teacher not be EXACTLY like the student but yet able to EMPATHISE with their struggle while they are learning?
Why should the “Perfect” Teacher, himself BE “Perfect” (Self answering rhetorical question!)
Reply-
Because unless the teacher (teaching by example) he must start from the same place in order to show what can really happen. How do we know what we are capable of doing when there is no example that is like us.
Jesus said “even as we are one make them one with us.” We are to have the same relationship with God as Jesus had. If his relationship with his father is based on some advantage he had (that we cannot have) that scripture is impossible.Tell me which of Christ’s accomplishments were done because of his preexistence and which could be done by any normal human. I would like to have the list so I know in what areas I can follow Christ and which areas I should stop wasting my time.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2010,01:41) T8……..So then Show me (ONE) Scripture that says Jesus (PREEXISTED) His berth here on Earth then, and i mean a direct scripture that say that, not some scripture you can force the text to come out that way. Jesus again and again called himself the SON OF MAN over and over again, But you and the Trinitarians deny those scriptures as being true, and In you belief system Jesus was a Morphed Being and was only Half man right? Show me scriptures that say that this is the case
I will give you more than one.John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”John 1:15
15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' “Martian, let me try again,
Teacher Type to Student Type: Human Teacher/Master for Human Student/Servant.
An unlearned Student/Servant goes to a learned Teacher/Master to get learned and become themselves a Teacher/Master
Should that Teacher/Master be in ignorance as the Student/Servant?
Surely the Teacher/Master (Ideally) should be 'Perfect' – the very idealisation/epitome of “Perfect/Expert/Professional” (And what if there were such a person : Yes, Jesus)Ok, just work with that.
JA…………You are completely are off Point as martian has shown you. Fact is GOD was Dealing with Mankind not some preexisting perfect being that need to be saved. His plan was to perfect Man from the beginning of creation not so preexisting being who already was perfect. What example would that serve. How could Jesus say to him that overcome (even as I have). What did He have to overcome seeing He was All ready Perfect. Jesus was as Peter put it (FOREORDAINED) Not preexisting as apostate religion has persuaded you to believe. You position not only belittles Jesus as an (EXACT) example for us all, but it also denies the very work of GOD in The human being Jesus. You should Join the Trinitarians because you are not that far away from there teachings of a preexisting GOD becoming a Man Right? What i have found is that Preexistences for the text to make it say what in fact it does not actually Say. T8 does this also. But i have ask Him and You to Just Produce (ONE) scripture that (SAYS) Jesus PREEXISTED His berth as some kind of Being, not to mention there is no reference to Him anywhere in Scripture prior to his Berth except in Prophesy. If you are so sure he did exist then what was His name and what position did he occupy if any. Please use Scripture not some imagined story that fits your ideas of what it must have been like.
Plain truth is, martian and I are both right on this JA. It is the position of the Antichrist you and T8 have taken not believe Jesus came into existence as a human being. He is Totally one of us Humans, And was never nothing More by any prior existence. He is the firstborn from mankind to enter into the kingdom of GOD and recieve a eternal Body.
If You Just read Rev and see what Jesus said about himself you could easily understand this . Did He not say He was alive and was dead and was alive for evermore, do you seen any more there? Do you See Jesus saying He was alive and (Morphed) into a Human body and died again and now after all that has eternal life. As you and T8 believe. Again i believe this view of your makes you and T8 both equal Antichrists. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 14 2010,14:09) JA…………You are completely are off Point as martian has shown you. Fact is GOD was Dealing with Mankind not some preexisting perfect being that need to be saved. His plan was to perfect Man from the beginning of creation not so preexisting being who already was perfect. What example would that serve. How could Jesus say to him that overcome (even as I have). What did He have to overcome seeing He was All ready Perfect. Jesus was as Peter put it (FOREORDAINED) Not preexisting as apostate religion has persuaded you to believe. You position not only belittles Jesus as an (EXACT) example for us all, but it also denies the very work of GOD in The human being Jesus. You should Join the Trinitarians because you are not that far away from there teachings of a preexisting GOD becoming a Man Right? What i have found is that Preexistences for the text to make it say what in fact it does not actually Say. T8 does this also. But i have ask Him and You to Just Produce (ONE) scripture that (SAYS) Jesus PREEXISTED His berth as some kind of Being, not to mention there is no reference to Him anywhere in Scripture prior to his Berth except in Prophesy. If you are so sure he did exist then what was His name and what position did he occupy if any. Please use Scripture not some imagined story that fits your ideas of what it must have been like. Plain truth is, martian and I are both right on this JA. It is the position of the Antichrist you and T8 have taken not believe Jesus came into existence as a human being. He is Totally one of us Humans, And was never nothing More by any prior existence. He is the firstborn from mankind to enter into the kingdom of GOD and recieve a eternal Body.
If You Just read Rev and see what Jesus said about himself you could easily understand this . Did He not say He was alive and was dead and was alive for evermore, do you seen any more there? Do you See Jesus saying He was alive and (Morphed) into a Human body and died again and now after all that has eternal life. As you and T8 believe. Again i believe this view of your makes you and T8 both equal Antichrists. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
geneyou give your opinion freely, your will to make others to believe your explanations even without scriptures quotes,is for the least ambitious,you must be used to teach children in the faith ,people without knowledge.
if you have the will to present the scriptures to backup your views i would be glad to see them,
this is my interest;; What did He have to overcome seeing He was All ready Perfect. Jesus was as Peter put it (FOREORDAINED) Not preexisting as apostate religion has persuaded you to believe
Pierre
Quote (t8 @ July 14 2010,12:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2010,01:41) T8……..So then Show me (ONE) Scripture that says Jesus (PREEXISTED) His berth here on Earth then, and i mean a direct scripture that say that, not some scripture you can force the text to come out that way. Jesus again and again called himself the SON OF MAN over and over again, But you and the Trinitarians deny those scriptures as being true, and In you belief system Jesus was a Morphed Being and was only Half man right? Show me scriptures that say that this is the case
I will give you more than one.John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”John 1:15
15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' “
T8…….WE have been through this before……….You should not add word to try to force the text in John 8:58 the word born is not there.Jude 1:25 Doesn't even mention the Word Jesus at all.It say the (ONLY) wise GOD , have your forgotten Jesus Said “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”.
Col 1:6 is talking about GOD the Father Who created all things by HIMSELF as Scripture in Isaiah Say He did. And it is GOD who is before all the and By Him all things consit> EXIST and that includes Jesus.
T8 on and on it goes pushing the Father aside and advancing Jesus over even Him as trinitarians do. You still have not produced (ONE) Scripture that says Jesus was Alive Before He was Berth on Earth, no matter how you try to force the text to meet you dogmas.
There is ONLY ONE GOD and ONE Mediator Between GOD and Man the (MAN) Jesus Christ. It sad to me you won't allow yourself to see Jesus our brother as a true Brother of ours.
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
I cant believe some of the topics which get brought up here, which go on and on, pre-existance etc etc, things which most wouldnt even think to disagree on, all through history from the earliest days, no-one disagreed BUT the heretics. Doesnt it make things 'complicated'?
How we are to 'walk as Jesus' in life, thats worth talking about.
Whats happening in the world, thats worth thinking about.
Prayer, charity, everything but what is talked about here.
Some threads (Eg Trinity) are like “The song which never ends…it goes on and on again” (kids program), Everythings a repeat – so whats the point?
The spirit of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, the prophecy section is dead.
Gene.
You read all those scriptures with an opposite view.
e.g., “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” becomes “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I didn't exist!” and “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” becomes “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches becomes “I am the not the Root but the Offspring of David, and not the bright Morning Star.”
See that, you take an opposite view on all those scriptures.
Let's face it, you do not believe: to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen but you do believe “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, not before all ages, but now and forevermore! Amen”
See how your mind works? It just interprets the opposite. Why?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 14 2010,14:32) T8…….WE have been through this before……….You should not add word to try to force the text in John 8:58 the word born is not there.
Look up the meaning of ego eimi.“I exist”, is the first person singular present tense of the verb “to be”.
Think about what you mean when you say, “I am” in your own language. I would like to see you force it to mean that you didn't exist.
Q: Are you Gene? A: I am.
Q: Are you Gene? A: I don't exist?Which one makes sense?
T8………..I know what you are trying to say, the problem is you have no idea in what manor Jesus was stating before Abraham i am because you have no (PROOF) of any prior existence of Jesus in any form, that is a assumption on you part as well as all who preach preexistence doctrines. But this we do know that GOD said a seed would come (FROM THE WOMEN) who would bruise the head of the serpent. So from that perspective Jesus was in order of preference before Abraham ever existed. So he could easily say before Abraham was i am. That is not a proof that Jesus existed as a (BEING) before His berth on earth.
There are so many scriptures that show Jesus as coming into existence from His brethren the Jews and He was in deed the offshoot of king David of the same root stock. Have you ever considered why Jesus would even say that , is it not to prove his human origins.
T8………..Jesus was the first born into the kingdom of GOD from mankind, and holds that office as firstborn. He was not morphed into a human and then became first born from mankind. You have produced no scripture that say Jesus Preexisted His berth here on earth except in the plan and foreknowledge of God. It was God intention all along to perfect Mankind and Jesus a (MAN) from Man Stock became the First to achieve that goal that God has planned for all of us, He is our example of both the Spirit of GOD and the Power of God in a pure human being. Why can't you believe what Peter said , He was foreordained from the foundations of the earth (not before that) and was Manifested (brought forth in existence) in Our time. Why cant you believe that T8?
You accuse me of a mind set but it is you who have the mind set , imposed on you by false religions as well as others. Think about what John said you must see Jesus as coming (into existence) in the flesh, no some morphed preexisting being of some kind. That is the view of that the Gnostic's Had of Jesus that John fought against. They believe Jesus was sent from the pelora as a God in disguise, you and all preexistences believe similarly only you say not as a GOD but some super being of some kind, which you have no support for. T8 God's plan was to prefect mankind not some preexistent morphed person.
T8 you and those who teach preexistence are in a very dangerous position of deny Jesus' humanity and therefore are denying Jesus, as well as God's perfecting work of His first born son from Mankind. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (JustAskin @ July 14 2010,09:00) Martian, NO…No sir… We are NOT SINLESS in the Eyes of God…
We are cleared of the SIN OF ADAM, original SIN that Condemned ALL MANKIND. BUT we are not cleared of Personal SIN. AND WE ALL Have Personal SIN – That is why there is Forgiveness – If we Repent. We could not REPENT OF The SIN of Adam because it wasn't OUR SIN to repent from. But even so, by being Righteous, God could commit the Former ones to Salvation BY HIS GRACE.
Did you read my post?
I said we are free of sin by forgiveness. Those sins are not to be remembered against us again.
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