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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2010,07:40) Hi JA,
Why would you imagine that man, a miniscule being on one of the smaller planets in a huge created universe is so self important?
The mighty angels shown in scripture. especially Revelation, are humbled by those in Christ being put over them.
Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust though shalt return
Vanity, vanity all is vanity
There may be creations more important to God on other planets but all of that is pure speculation. what we do know is that of this reality concerning this Earth God has made no other creature with who he has stamped his image and likeness. Jesus did not become the blood sacrifice for the rocks in the field or even the leaves on the trees. It may be true that this world will be redeemed in the end but only as a living space for man. It may also so be true that this world will be destroyed but man is promised eternal life and existence. The rocks are not.
Man is also the only creation on this Earth that has the ability to reason/think. He is self aware of his existence and sentient.
Man is God's most important creation because he is the only creation that has the potential to sit on heaven's thrown and share in God's power. He is the only one with whom God invests his emotions in realms of love.
God did not set up a plan to redeem angels when they sinned. He did so for man.This is not elevating man beyond his deserved place, it is simply acknowledging the position God has placed him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2010,08:03) Hi M,
Do you really think it is all about us?
God owes us nothing.
Mercy is all.
It is not about God owing us it is about the position that God placed us in his economy from the beginning. I think you are stuck in thinking after the fall. We are indeed more retched after the fall then before but that is not the point.
Prior to the fall man was placed in a position that had the potential to be over the angels. He only lacked maturity and wisdom. the fall changes that for man, however Christ sacrifice was to restore us to the position that we lost at the fall. To now say that we cannot have that position back is to deny the price Christ paid for it. All is forgiven and placed from the East to the west. there is nothing stopping us from regaining that position right now except our own unbelief. God wants us there even more then we want to be there. It is up to us. God deals with us where we are and slowly like stubborn stiff necked and disobedient children we learn who we are as God created us to be. We stop hiding behind the fig leaves, come out in the light and allow a loving God that we can trust restore our personalities, bodies and hearts until we are representatives of God's nature even as Christ was. Billions showing God through them in all of their varied and colorful personalities.Hi M,
Genesis was not the beginning of reality.
We are just a blip on the radar screen of life.
God loving us is not because of any innate importanceHi Nick,
And why do yoh think that God chose the smallest tribe from among the more powerful tribes of Israel?And David, the most diminutive amongs his brothers and Bethlehem, the smallest, most uninspirable town in Galilee at the time?
Are you wiser than God.
You seem to be claiming Diety. Nick, be careful. I sense you are falling…
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2010,08:26) Hi M,
Genesis was not the beginning of reality.
We are just a blip on the radar screen of life.
God loving us is not because of any innate importance
It is the beginning of our reality. If you wish to speculate on other realms and realities go ahead, but they have no bearing on man or the reality of life on this Earth. they have no effect. We have to deal with the matters at hand in our reality. that is what is required of us. Speculation profits us nothing.Hi JA,
God is all.
His power shows up best in weakness.
We are PRIVILEDGED to be used and given His sovereign mercyNick,
You might want to read the first potion of this web site. I found it interesting and an answer to your questions.Nick,
If I say that I completely believe that God is complete in Himself, is all powerful, all wise, omni-everything,.. will you stop telling me that He is all those thing as if you imagine that I don't already believe it, or need reminding?
Hi KJ:
You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 01 2010,09:53) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2010,09:48) 942767………….They just do not get it brother. It has not been given to then to understand> IMO peace and love………………gene
Gene,It is you who does not get it. You were against truth from your mother's breasts. The law appointed men as high priests who had weakness. Jesus was not appointed by law but by oath. Do the math.
2 = 2 = 4
KJ
you say-
It is you who does not get it. You were against truth from your mother's breasts.Reply –
To quote yo daddy, WJ – Ad hominemLOL
Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Martian,You're a trip man! God would have written scripture differently?
Again you make assertions that cannot be verified. There is no way you can prove that His tests would have meant nothing if He could not have failed. If a theory cannot be verified by human experience then we do not have to accept it.
The scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY says that those who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness He would also have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law but by the oath BECAUSE He Himself was the SURETY.
Quote 20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a SURETY of a better covenant.It's clear dude! God swore by an oath and appointed the man who would guarantee its fulfillment.
Again, the scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares that men with weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness, then He too would have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law was He?
God could not swear by an oath and then appoint someone who had the ability to botch it up. Get real!
the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:00) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Martian,You're a trip man! God would have written scripture differently?
Again you make assertions that cannot be verified. There is no way you can prove that His tests would have meant nothing if He could not have failed. If a theory cannot be verified by human experience then we do not have to accept it.
The scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY says that those who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness He would also have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law but by the oath BECAUSE He Himself was the SURETY.
Quote 20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a SURETY of a better covenant.It's clear dude! God swore by an oath and appointed the man who would guarantee its fulfillment.
Again, the scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares that men with weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness, then He too would have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law was He?
God could not swear by an oath and then appoint someone who had the ability to botch it up. Get real!
the Roo
You scriptural proof is outside the general context of the word. that general context including Christ as our example. If he is not tested/tempted like all other men then he is not our example.Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,11:03) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:00) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Martian,You're a trip man! God would have written scripture differently?
Again you make assertions that cannot be verified. There is no way you can prove that His tests would have meant nothing if He could not have failed. If a theory cannot be verified by human experience then we do not have to accept it.
The scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY says that those who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness He would also have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law but by the oath BECAUSE He Himself was the SURETY.
Quote 20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a SURETY of a better covenant.It's clear dude! God swore by an oath and appointed the man who would guarantee its fulfillment.
Again, the scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares that men with weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness, then He too would have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law was He?
God could not swear by an oath and then appoint someone who had the ability to botch it up. Get real!
the Roo
You scriptural proof is outside the general context of the word. that general context including Christ as our example. If he is not tested/tempted like all other men then he is not our example.
Martian,We have already discussed the example aspect of it. Your theories are unverifiable. Again, Paul said that Jesus subsisted in the form of God, that is, He was God and that He made Himself nothing. This is our example! Paul did not make His temptations our example.
The scripture is UNAMBIGUOUS that men who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law.
JESUS WAS NOT APPOINTED AS HIGH PRIEST BY THE LAW! ERGO….
the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:17) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,11:03) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:00) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Martian,You're a trip man! God would have written scripture differently?
Again you make assertions that cannot be verified. There is no way you can prove that His tests would have meant nothing if He could not have failed. If a theory cannot be verified by human experience then we do not have to accept it.
The scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY says that those who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness He would also have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law but by the oath BECAUSE He Himself was the SURETY.
Quote 20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a SURETY of a better covenant.It's clear dude! God swore by an oath and appointed the man who would guarantee its fulfillment.
Again, the scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares that men with weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness, then He too would have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law was He?
God could not swear by an oath and then appoint someone who had the ability to botch it up. Get real!
the Roo
You scriptural proof is outside the general context of the word. that general context including Christ as our example. If he is not tested/tempted like all other men then he is not our example.
Martian,We have already discussed the example aspect of it. Your theories are unverifiable. Again, Paul said that Jesus subsisted in the form of God, that is, He was God and that He made Himself nothing. This is our example! Paul did not make His temptations our example.
The scripture is UNAMBIGUOUS that men who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law.
JESUS WAS NOT APPOINTED AS HIGH PRIEST BY THE LAW! ERGO….
the Roo
so you do not believe hat Christ is our example?
You are out of the realms of Christianity. I am done with your nonsense. Keep the forum and your victory. A small win it truly is.Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,11:25) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:17) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,11:03) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:00) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Martian,You're a trip man! God would have written scripture differently?
Again you make assertions that cannot be verified. There is no way you can prove that His tests would have meant nothing if He could not have failed. If a theory cannot be verified by human experience then we do not have to accept it.
The scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY says that those who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness He would also have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law but by the oath BECAUSE He Himself was the SURETY.
Quote 20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a SURETY of a better covenant.It's clear dude! God swore by an oath and appointed the man who would guarantee its fulfillment.
Again, the scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares that men with weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness, then He too would have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law was He?
God could not swear by an oath and then appoint someone who had the ability to botch it up. Get real!
the Roo
You scriptural proof is outside the general context of the word. that general context including Christ as our example. If he is not tested/tempted like all other men then he is not our example.
Martian,We have already discussed the example aspect of it. Your theories are unverifiable. Again, Paul said that Jesus subsisted in the form of God, that is, He was God and that He made Himself nothing. This is our example! Paul did not make His temptations our example.
The scripture is UNAMBIGUOUS that men who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law.
JESUS WAS NOT APPOINTED AS HIGH PRIEST BY THE LAW! ERGO….
the Roo
so you do not believe hat Christ is our example?
You are out of the realms of Christianity. I am done with your nonsense. Keep the forum and your victory. A small win it truly is.
Paul said, “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus…and He humbled Himself.”So it was His HUMILITY that was our example and not His temptations.
He was not appointed as high priest by the law as men who had weakness. Therefore, He was without weakness.
That's all for tonight. I'm going to bed.
the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:36) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,11:25) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:17) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,11:03) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 02 2010,11:00) Quote (martian @ July 02 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2010,09:10) Hi KJ: You say:
Quote
If the potential existed for Christ to sin, then the potential existed for the oath to fail and God can lie:Of course God cannot lie and He has seen everything from the beginning to the end, even your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Of course the potential was there for Jesus to fail.
Quote Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. Love in Christ,
Marty
Exactly right.
If Christ had failed then God would have known by his foreknowledge and would have written scripture differently.If Christ did not have the potential to fail then all the tests would have meant nothing. He could never be tempted to do anything that was impossible for him to do. AND his test and overcoming would be of no use to us as an example.
Martian,You're a trip man! God would have written scripture differently?
Again you make assertions that cannot be verified. There is no way you can prove that His tests would have meant nothing if He could not have failed. If a theory cannot be verified by human experience then we do not have to accept it.
The scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY says that those who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness He would also have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law but by the oath BECAUSE He Himself was the SURETY.
Quote 20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a SURETY of a better covenant.It's clear dude! God swore by an oath and appointed the man who would guarantee its fulfillment.
Again, the scripture UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares that men with weakness were appointed as high priests by the law. So if Christ had weakness, then He too would have been appointed by the law. He was not appointed by the law was He?
God could not swear by an oath and then appoint someone who had the ability to botch it up. Get real!
the Roo
You scriptural proof is outside the general context of the word. that general context including Christ as our example. If he is not tested/tempted like all other men then he is not our example.
Martian,We have already discussed the example aspect of it. Your theories are unverifiable. Again, Paul said that Jesus subsisted in the form of God, that is, He was God and that He made Himself nothing. This is our example! Paul did not make His temptations our example.
The scripture is UNAMBIGUOUS that men who had weakness were appointed as high priests by the law.
JESUS WAS NOT APPOINTED AS HIGH PRIEST BY THE LAW! ERGO….
the Roo
so you do not believe hat Christ is our example?
You are out of the realms of Christianity. I am done with your nonsense. Keep the forum and your victory. A small win it truly is.
Paul said, “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus…and He humbled Himself.”So it was His HUMILITY that was our example and not His temptations.
He was not appointed as high priest by the law as men ho had weakness. Therefore, He was without weakness.
That's all for tonight. I'm going to bed.
the Roo
Stupid response –
So a God humbling himself to become a servant is an example for us?
So as soon as I become a God I will humble myself too. thanks man that should be useful to me. NOT!!!HOWEVER – I am tempted every day and Christ as a man overcoming that temptation is something I can have hope in and follow from his example.
Quote (terraricca @ July 02 2010,07:54) and no one as seen God but the son ;;is this mean also in heaven??could be.
Hi Pierre,Matthew 18:10 NIV
“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.I hope this helps.
peace and love,
mike
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