Preexistence

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2010,01:16)

T8…….Jesus was GOD (FIRSTBORN) FROM the Human race to attain eternal life and immortality, How can you say we should not look to him then? He is our (exact) representation  in every Way. Bother i do not follow you reasoning here, If you were lost in the mountains and a Man came and showed you the way out, because he had been there and understood it ,does that mean all men could have shown you the way out, NO so How can you say we should not listen to him. You argument makes no sense at all brother. Jesus (IS) our exact example of what we need to be and become, until we all come unto the (full) measure of Christ. You are really out on a limb on that one brother. IMO peace and love to you and your……………….gene

Sorry Gene, but if you do not believe that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh, and is now in the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun, then your doctrine is alien too.

I place scripture way above your words. No competition gene. I am sure if you think about it, you can understand why I cannot accept your words when they are not the words of scripture. You are trying to compete with scripture and you should know that you will ultimately lose this battle.

You might score some small victories or not, but you have already lost the war. What war? The war between truth and lies. That which is written as scripture and that which is imagined.

To me, you are just like the Trinitarians, you can't handle scripture. You just reason every scripture to your predefined belief. I can't see what the point of that is myself, but you are entitled with your will to choose to be like this. It was obviously your choice and no one elses.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……….It make no logical sense for God to morph a preexisting begin and try to pass him of as a Human being and for us to believe we are exactly like him in every way. God read read what martin wrote his is exactly right brother, It simply would not make any sense for God to do it any other way, It was mankind he was and is saving , not some already preexisting being of some kind. simple logic would show you this. Jesus was indeed for known and so were we i will give you that , but that does not change anything. It was still a man and an only man that GOD saved and used as a example of salvation for all. God is not about saving preexisting being , but about saving human beings. That is his purpose and plan and this plan existed from the foundations of the earth. IMO

peace and love……………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……..So then Show me (ONE) Scripture that says Jesus (PREEXISTED) His berth here on Earth then, and i mean a direct scripture that say that, not some scripture you can force the text to come out that way. Jesus again and again called himself the SON OF MAN over and over again, But you and the Trinitarians deny those scriptures as being true, and In you belief system Jesus was a Morphed Being and was only Half man right? Show me scriptures that say that this is the case.

Show me where Jesus was a incarnate being of any Kind. Don't you think that would have been an important issue that would have been discussed (clearly) by the apostles. No my friend it is you and the trinitarians who are not believing scriptures. If you see Jesus any other way then a (TOTALLY) Human Being , you simply do not see Jesus, he is one of Us always was and always will be. martian and I both are stating it right. IMO

peace and love……………………………gene

[martian]

Quote (t8 @ July 01 2010,01:18)

Quote (martian @ July 01 2010,01:12) If Jesus is really the same as us as opposed to existing in the form of God, emptying himself and coming in the flesh, then why do you even need to mention Jesus. What about Bob, Jack, or Bruce. If he is the same as us, them we are the same as him. So why talk about Jesus. There are like 6 or 7 billion other humans you could talk about. Because Jesus is special in the fact that he was the first to complete God's plan for all of mankind. Paul says follow me as I follow Christ. Christ is the example, but others as examples are possible if they are following Christ. christ is the perfect and complete example even unto his death. Others can be examples in the areas wherein they are following Christ example. Secondly – christ is special for the other part of his two fold mandate. His mission as the Blood sacrifice. No other human has that calling.[/quote] Got ya. So those scriptures that say that God made all things through him and for him is hogwash then? And where it says that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh, and returned to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun is hogwash too. And “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” is just more of the same hogwash. As is Jesus saying that before Abraham was, I am. Tell me martian, why should I put your word above scripture? Your doctrine is alien which is appropriate given your chosen name.

Why do you put your personal opinion/interpretation above the over all plan of God?
You say those scriptures prove preexistence and I say they mean otherwise. Since neither of us can budge, how do you determine who is correct?
The perfect test is which conclusion fits in the plan of God for mankind and which detracts from it?
You conclusions make Christ a different creature from us and invalidates his use as an exact and perfect example of completed humanity. The example we are to follow.
My conclusion validates Christ as the first to complete God's plan for man and makes his example pure and without questions or loopholes.

I ask as I did before – Does it seem reasonable for Christ or God to ask us to follow Christ in the path that he traveled if the only way to do it is to have some form of advantage that normal man cannot attain. If he preexisted, how did that effect his walk on Earth? And how do you know what effect it had?
Do you believe that Christ is our example to follow? If you do and Christ had an advantage through preexistence that effected even a small part of his Earthly walk, How do you know what part? Please tell me so I know what of his works I can do and what I cannot not. Please prove your points.

[martian]

I have to go out a while. I will pick this up later.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……..What does that exactly mean “existed in the form of God”……….does that mean he was a GOD then, so why are you not a trinitarian because you see it their way right? Actual the word there is (EXISTING) Present tense not past tense , Look it up in a Greek interlinear it might cause you to think about it differently. He was existing in the form (nature) of God because he had the Holy Spirit in Him even while on earth. But he did not (regard) this equality in nature or form of God as something to be grab at. The whole example Paul was driving at there was to help us have the same mental attitude as Jesus had. It had nothing to do with Him being equal to GOD. But that is a good example of how Preexistences try to force the text to conform to their teachings, even when the context have nothing to do with preexistence at all. IMO

peace and love……………………gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 29 2010,18:08)

Martian said: Quote Let me ask a few questions to start – Who is the mediator between God and Man? Who was given all authority over heaven and Earth? Who was appointed judge of all the Earth? Martian, You claim to be the expert on Hebrew culture. In the Hebrew culture mediation had to occur by the kin of both parties. Hebrews 8:6-10 says that Christ is both the Mediator and God Himself: Quote 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.   7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Note that it is the Mediator who is saying, “I will make a new covenant” and “I will be their God.” How can Jesus be both the Mediator and God at the same time? Answer: In Hebrew culture mediation occurred by representation from both parties. Jacob and Laban had a dispute and it was mediated by the kin of both men (Gen. 31). So Jesus had to be God to represent God and also be man to represent us. Again, it is Christ the Mediator who is speaking in Hebrews 8 saying, “I will be their God.” So in Hebrew culture mediation occurred by the kin of both parties. Jesus was God's “kin” which means that He was God. He is also our “kin” which means that He is man like us. Jesus could not have been our mediator with God unless He was both God and Man in one person. It is as the “KIN” of both parties that Jesus Christ is the Mediator between both parties. Your points about His being “appointed” do not prove your antithesis. And your assertion that He cannot grant us anything of Himself is totally false. John said that if we ask anyting according to HIS WILL He hears us and grants our petitions. Prayer and petition is a form of worship is it not? the Roo

Jack

Very good post and very true.

Blessings Keith

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,02:09)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 29 2010,18:08) Martian said: Quote Let me ask a few questions to start – Who is the mediator between God and Man? Who was given all authority over heaven and Earth? Who was appointed judge of all the Earth? Martian, You claim to be the expert on Hebrew culture. In the Hebrew culture mediation had to occur by the kin of both parties. Hebrews 8:6-10 says that Christ is both the Mediator and God Himself: Quote 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.   7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Note that it is the Mediator who is saying, “I will make a new covenant” and “I will be their God.” How can Jesus be both the Mediator and God at the same time? Answer: In Hebrew culture mediation occurred by representation from both parties. Jacob and Laban had a dispute and it was mediated by the kin of both men (Gen. 31). So Jesus had to be God to represent God and also be man to represent us. Again, it is Christ the Mediator who is speaking in Hebrews 8 saying, “I will be their God.” So in Hebrew culture mediation occurred by the kin of both parties. Jesus was God's “kin” which means that He was God. He is also our “kin” which means that He is man like us. Jesus could not have been our mediator with God unless He was both God and Man in one person. It is as the “KIN” of both parties that Jesus Christ is the Mediator between both parties. Your points about His being “appointed” do not prove your antithesis. And your assertion that He cannot grant us anything of Himself is totally false. John said that if we ask anyting according to HIS WILL He hears us and grants our petitions. Prayer and petition is a form of worship is it not? the Roo Jack Very good post and very true. Blessings Keith

his interpretations of those verses make no difference at all.
I could prove that he is wrong scripturally with enough study but I do not have too. Scripture is not the finale authority. The plan and will of God is the finale authority.
If your conclusions nulify the plan of God then your conclusions have to be wrong.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 30 2010,11:43)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,02:09) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 29 2010,18:08) Martian said: Quote Let me ask a few questions to start – Who is the mediator between God and Man? Who was given all authority over heaven and Earth? Who was appointed judge of all the Earth? Martian, You claim to be the expert on Hebrew culture. In the Hebrew culture mediation had to occur by the kin of both parties. Hebrews 8:6-10 says that Christ is both the Mediator and God Himself: Quote 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.   7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Note that it is the Mediator who is saying, “I will make a new covenant” and “I will be their God.” How can Jesus be both the Mediator and God at the same time? Answer: In Hebrew culture mediation occurred by representation from both parties. Jacob and Laban had a dispute and it was mediated by the kin of both men (Gen. 31). So Jesus had to be God to represent God and also be man to represent us. Again, it is Christ the Mediator who is speaking in Hebrews 8 saying, “I will be their God.” So in Hebrew culture mediation occurred by the kin of both parties. Jesus was God's “kin” which means that He was God. He is also our “kin” which means that He is man like us. Jesus could not have been our mediator with God unless He was both God and Man in one person. It is as the “KIN” of both parties that Jesus Christ is the Mediator between both parties. Your points about His being “appointed” do not prove your antithesis. And your assertion that He cannot grant us anything of Himself is totally false. John said that if we ask anyting according to HIS WILL He hears us and grants our petitions. Prayer and petition is a form of worship is it not? the Roo Jack Very good post and very true. Blessings Keith his interpretations of those verses make no difference at all. I could prove that he is wrong scripturally with enough study but I do not have too. Scripture is not the finale authority. The plan and will of God is the finale authority. If your conclusions nulify the plan of God then your conclusions have to be wrong.

Martian

Thanks for letting us know that you place your own authority (Idea of the plan of God which btw is found in scriptures) over the “Inspired Scriptures”.

Now we know that we do not have to take you seriously!

WJ

[Arnold]

You know it is so amazing to me that with all the Scriptures given about that Jesus by His own words in John and Col. and Rev. that some will just ignore and ignore those Scriptures…. Firstborn of all creation, how can you think that means something else? And when Jesus said that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the World was, is what.??? The plan of God… think again….Use your intellect,Gene……It is not to smart to call Jesus a liar…. ….that is what you are doing when you say that Jesus did not come from Heaven or that He was there before the world was….
Proverbs 8:22-30 love it….. amazing…Rev, 19:13-16 King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Word of God John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13 And that Word became flesh in John 1:14……Martian, Jesus was not an ordinary man…. He was and is the Son of God…. That alone makes Him special….If He would have been just a mere man, He too would have sinned. All have fallen short of the Glory of God…………Romans 3:23……..Peace and Love Irene

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,03:49)

Quote (martian @ June 30 2010,11:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,02:09) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 29 2010,18:08) Martian said: Quote Let me ask a few questions to start – Who is the mediator between God and Man? Who was given all authority over heaven and Earth? Who was appointed judge of all the Earth? Martian, You claim to be the expert on Hebrew culture. In the Hebrew culture mediation had to occur by the kin of both parties. Hebrews 8:6-10 says that Christ is both the Mediator and God Himself: Quote 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.   7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Note that it is the Mediator who is saying, “I will make a new covenant” and “I will be their God.” How can Jesus be both the Mediator and God at the same time? Answer: In Hebrew culture mediation occurred by representation from both parties. Jacob and Laban had a dispute and it was mediated by the kin of both men (Gen. 31). So Jesus had to be God to represent God and also be man to represent us. Again, it is Christ the Mediator who is speaking in Hebrews 8 saying, “I will be their God.” So in Hebrew culture mediation occurred by the kin of both parties. Jesus was God's “kin” which means that He was God. He is also our “kin” which means that He is man like us. Jesus could not have been our mediator with God unless He was both God and Man in one person. It is as the “KIN” of both parties that Jesus Christ is the Mediator between both parties. Your points about His being “appointed” do not prove your antithesis. And your assertion that He cannot grant us anything of Himself is totally false. John said that if we ask anyting according to HIS WILL He hears us and grants our petitions. Prayer and petition is a form of worship is it not? the Roo Jack Very good post and very true. Blessings Keith his interpretations of those verses make no difference at all. I could prove that he is wrong scripturally with enough study but I do not have too. Scripture is not the finale authority. The plan and will of God is the finale authority. If your conclusions nulify the plan of God then your conclusions have to be wrong. Martian Thanks for letting us know that you place your own authority (Idea of the plan of God which btw is found in scriptures) over the “Inspired Scriptures”. Now we know that we do not have to take you seriously! WJ

It is true that the plan of God that I believe is found in scripture. the difference between your plan and mine is that mine actually produces good fruit.
Talk about paying attention —
I would rather pay attention to someone who wants to follow Christ as their example of how to walk with God rather then someone who follows their own personal interpretation of a book about God.
You are religious but not a follower of Christ.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 30 2010,16:02)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,03:49) Quote (martian @ June 30 2010,11:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,02:09) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 29 2010,18:08) Martian said: Quote Let me ask a few questions to start – Who is the mediator between God and Man? Who was given all authority over heaven and Earth? Who was appointed judge of all the Earth? Martian, You claim to be the expert on Hebrew culture. In the Hebrew culture mediation had to occur by the kin of both parties. Hebrews 8:6-10 says that Christ is both the Mediator and God Himself: Quote 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.   7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Note that it is the Mediator who is saying, “I will make a new covenant” and “I will be their God.” How can Jesus be both the Mediator and God at the same time? Answer: In Hebrew culture mediation occurred by representation from both parties. Jacob and Laban had a dispute and it was mediated by the kin of both men (Gen. 31). So Jesus had to be God to represent God and also be man to represent us. Again, it is Christ the Mediator who is speaking in Hebrews 8 saying, “I will be their God.” So in Hebrew culture mediation occurred by the kin of both parties. Jesus was God's “kin” which means that He was God. He is also our “kin” which means that He is man like us. Jesus could not have been our mediator with God unless He was both God and Man in one person. It is as the “KIN” of both parties that Jesus Christ is the Mediator between both parties. Your points about His being “appointed” do not prove your antithesis. And your assertion that He cannot grant us anything of Himself is totally false. John said that if we ask anyting according to HIS WILL He hears us and grants our petitions. Prayer and petition is a form of worship is it not? the Roo Jack Very good post and very true. Blessings Keith his interpretations of those verses make no difference at all. I could prove that he is wrong scripturally with enough study but I do not have too. Scripture is not the finale authority. The plan and will of God is the finale authority. If your conclusions nulify the plan of God then your conclusions have to be wrong. Martian Thanks for letting us know that you place your own authority (Idea of the plan of God which btw is found in scriptures) over the “Inspired Scriptures”. Now we know that we do not have to take you seriously! WJ It is true that the plan of God that I believe is found in scripture. the difference between your plan and mine is that mine actually produces good fruit. Talk about paying attention — I would rather pay attention to someone who wants to follow Christ as their example of how to walk with God rather then someone who follows their own personal interpretation of a book about God. You are religious but not a follower of Christ.

Martian

And you are not God and know nothing about my life or relationship with my God!

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Arnold @ July 01 2010,04:53)

You know it is so amazing to me that with all the Scriptures given about that Jesus by His own words in John and Col. and Rev. that some will just ignore and ignore those Scriptures…. Firstborn of all creation, how can you think that means something else? And when Jesus said that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the World was, is what.??? The plan of God… think again….Use your intellect,Gene……It is not to smart to call Jesus a liar…. ….that is what you are doing when you say that Jesus did not come from Heaven or that He was there before the world was…. Proverbs 8:22-30 love it….. amazing…Rev, 19:13-16 King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Word of God John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13   And that Word became flesh in John 1:14……Martian, Jesus was not an ordinary man…. He was and is the Son of God…. That alone makes Him special….If He would have been just a mere man, He too would have sinned.  All have fallen short of the Glory of God…………Romans 3:23……..Peace and Love Irene

Irene……..Read what you have posted , can't you see martins point the preexistences view (SEPARATES) Jesus' exact identity with us , your own word show this to be true Sis. That is my and martian point Sis, Think about it .

Peace and love to you and Georg………………………gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,16:29)

Quote (Arnold @ July 01 2010,04:53) You know it is so amazing to me that with all the Scriptures given about that Jesus by His own words in John and Col. and Rev. that some will just ignore and ignore those Scriptures…. Firstborn of all creation, how can you think that means something else? And when Jesus said that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the World was, is what.??? The plan of God… think again….Use your intellect,Gene……It is not to smart to call Jesus a liar…. ….that is what you are doing when you say that Jesus did not come from Heaven or that He was there before the world was…. Proverbs 8:22-30 love it….. amazing…Rev, 19:13-16 King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Word of God John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13   And that Word became flesh in John 1:14……Martian, Jesus was not an ordinary man…. He was and is the Son of God…. That alone makes Him special….If He would have been just a mere man, He too would have sinned.  All have fallen short of the Glory of God…………Romans 3:23……..Peace and Love Irene Irene……..Read what you have posted , can't you see martins point the preexistences view (SEPARATES) Jesus' exact identity with us , your own word show this to be true Sis.  That is my and martian point Sis, Think about it . Peace and love to you and Georg………………………gene

Gene

If Jesus was like us in everyway then how is it he had the Spirit without measure?

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ………..Because the, ONLY ONE GOD Gave it to HIM, and He can do the same for us also. Wasn't Stephen (full) of the Spirit of GOD. When he gave His life up for the work of GOD to. WJ, our point is why do you and he rest of the preexistences and Trinitarians want to continually push Jesus away from our (EXACT) Identity, What spirit is that from certainly not the Spirit of Christ

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

[JustAskin]

Gene,
And he also said to the Jews who were accusing him of blasheming, 'What of it if I say that I am the Son of God'

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,08:32)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,16:29) Quote (Arnold @ July 01 2010,04:53) You know it is so amazing to me that with all the Scriptures given about that Jesus by His own words in John and Col. and Rev. that some will just ignore and ignore those Scriptures…. Firstborn of all creation, how can you think that means something else? And when Jesus said that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the World was, is what.??? The plan of God… think again….Use your intellect,Gene……It is not to smart to call Jesus a liar…. ….that is what you are doing when you say that Jesus did not come from Heaven or that He was there before the world was…. Proverbs 8:22-30 love it….. amazing…Rev, 19:13-16 King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Word of God John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13   And that Word became flesh in John 1:14……Martian, Jesus was not an ordinary man…. He was and is the Son of God…. That alone makes Him special….If He would have been just a mere man, He too would have sinned.  All have fallen short of the Glory of God…………Romans 3:23……..Peace and Love Irene Irene……..Read what you have posted , can't you see martins point the preexistences view (SEPARATES) Jesus' exact identity with us , your own word show this to be true Sis.  That is my and martian point Sis, Think about it . Peace and love to you and Georg………………………gene Gene If Jesus was like us in everyway then how is it he had the Spirit without measure? WJ

Keith,

Gene stopped his ears to the truth when he was a baby. Hebrews explicitly says that the law appointed men as high priests that had weakness. But Jesus was not appointed by law but by oath. Therefore, Jesus had no weakness.

28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. Heb. 7:28

Gene and Martian can't get it through their thick skulls that if a man who had weakness had been appointed, then the oath could have failed. And if the oath could have failed, then the word of God can change.

The premise is that the word of God cannot change. Therefore, Jesus had no weakness.

2 = 2 = 4

Jack

[942767]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 01 2010,09:24)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,08:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,16:29) Quote (Arnold @ July 01 2010,04:53) You know it is so amazing to me that with all the Scriptures given about that Jesus by His own words in John and Col. and Rev. that some will just ignore and ignore those Scriptures…. Firstborn of all creation, how can you think that means something else? And when Jesus said that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the World was, is what.??? The plan of God… think again….Use your intellect,Gene……It is not to smart to call Jesus a liar…. ….that is what you are doing when you say that Jesus did not come from Heaven or that He was there before the world was…. Proverbs 8:22-30 love it….. amazing…Rev, 19:13-16 King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Word of God John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13   And that Word became flesh in John 1:14……Martian, Jesus was not an ordinary man…. He was and is the Son of God…. That alone makes Him special….If He would have been just a mere man, He too would have sinned.  All have fallen short of the Glory of God…………Romans 3:23……..Peace and Love Irene Irene……..Read what you have posted , can't you see martins point the preexistences view (SEPARATES) Jesus' exact identity with us , your own word show this to be true Sis.  That is my and martian point Sis, Think about it . Peace and love to you and Georg………………………gene Gene If Jesus was like us in everyway then how is it he had the Spirit without measure? WJ Keith, Gene stopped his ears to the truth when he was a baby. Hebrews explicitly says that the law appointed men as high priests that had weakness. But Jesus was not appointed by law but by oath. Therefore, Jesus had no weakness. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. Heb. 7:28 Gene and Martian can't get it through their thick skulls that if a man who had weakness had been appointed, then the oath could have failed. And if the oath could have failed, then the word of God can change. The premise is that the word of God cannot change. Therefore, Jesus had no weakness. 2 = 2 = 4 Jack

Hi KJ:

Jesus was not appointed as High Priest until after his resurrection. At that time he had been perfected, and raised to eternal life.

Those High priests under the law could not continue in that office because they would die. Jesus is alive forever more.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

942767………….They just do not get it brother. It has not been given to then to understand> IMO

peace and love………………gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ July 01 2010,09:39)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 01 2010,09:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2010,08:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,16:29) Quote (Arnold @ July 01 2010,04:53) You know it is so amazing to me that with all the Scriptures given about that Jesus by His own words in John and Col. and Rev. that some will just ignore and ignore those Scriptures…. Firstborn of all creation, how can you think that means something else? And when Jesus said that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the World was, is what.??? The plan of God… think again….Use your intellect,Gene……It is not to smart to call Jesus a liar…. ….that is what you are doing when you say that Jesus did not come from Heaven or that He was there before the world was…. Proverbs 8:22-30 love it….. amazing…Rev, 19:13-16 King of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Word of God John 1:1 and Rev. 19:13   And that Word became flesh in John 1:14……Martian, Jesus was not an ordinary man…. He was and is the Son of God…. That alone makes Him special….If He would have been just a mere man, He too would have sinned.  All have fallen short of the Glory of God…………Romans 3:23……..Peace and Love Irene Irene……..Read what you have posted , can't you see martins point the preexistences view (SEPARATES) Jesus' exact identity with us , your own word show this to be true Sis.  That is my and martian point Sis, Think about it . Peace and love to you and Georg………………………gene Gene If Jesus was like us in everyway then how is it he had the Spirit without measure? WJ Keith, Gene stopped his ears to the truth when he was a baby. Hebrews explicitly says that the law appointed men as high priests that had weakness. But Jesus was not appointed by law but by oath. Therefore, Jesus had no weakness. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. Heb. 7:28 Gene and Martian can't get it through their thick skulls that if a man who had weakness had been appointed, then the oath could have failed. And if the oath could have failed, then the word of God can change. The premise is that the word of God cannot change. Therefore, Jesus had no weakness. 2 = 2 = 4 Jack Hi KJ: Jesus was not appointed as High Priest until after his resurrection.  At that time he had been perfected, and raised to eternal life. Those High priests under the law could not continue in that office because they would die.  Jesus is alive forever more. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

When was the oath given? And was it an IMMUTABLE oath from the time it was spoken? If it was an immutable oath from the time it was spoken, then Jesus had no weakness at any time.

2 = 2 = 4

KJ

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