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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 23 2010,04:36) Quote (JustAskin @ June 21 2010,18:16) WJ, You are a Satan… You desire is try and cause me to sin.
You are not a good person.
You have fallen from an ignorant false believer, a trinitarian, down even more, to that of outright opposer.
You have repeatedly failed against me with your false belief, so much so that your ownly resort is to try and get me to trip myself up.
Why, WJ? If what you believe is true, if you are of God, if God is with you, if you speak truth, WJ, why does nothing prevail with you? Why does most of what you say prove to be false and yet for over x years you have been in this forum and I hear things that you do outside the forum which supposedly putss you in a higher position, one of a leader, a shepherd, a teacher…but you are blind…a blind leader, shepherd and an ignorant teacher… Not very good qualifications, eh?
WJ, what have you learnt over the years…'spiritually'?nothing… Why?….because Trinity only teaches you how to lie, how to cover up for it's deceit.
It is using you, and making you 'successful' for it's own purpose, like the 'Ring' in 'Lord of the Rings'…
WJ, take it off, and you will see the plain Wor[l]d of God, truth.
Take it off, WJ, and free yourself from its power and rule over you.WJ, pray to Go Almighty, through the spirit man, Jesus Christ, the one and only one who is the mediator between God Almighty and Mankind, having known firsthand the weakness of flesh and also the power of spirit, and therefore can empathise with man and yet be authorative in spirit.
JAThe ad hominem expert!
If Jesus is called “Mighty God” then is he your “Mighty God”?
Can you call him “Mighty God”?
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and “HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED” Wonderful, Counsellor, “The MIGHTY GOD“, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
You said satan is a “Mighty God”!
Does that mean to you that Jesus is “a god” in the sense satan is “a god”?
Thats what your brother Mike says!
Please stop with the babyish diatribe!
And answer the questions if you can.
You are acting like the “Pharasees and the Saducees” in there response to Jesus.
Sad-U-See!
WJ
Do you call him Everlasting Father too?I can call his both everlasting father (like father Abraham) and mighty El (mighty one). But he is not the Most High Theos. He is not the Almighty.
Trinitarians biggest defense is playing with words that look similar. But that is really deceptive. Just because words look the same doesn't mean they are. Plus you need to look at the context. Both YHWH and Satan are called theos. Context is everything. Without it, you can pick and choose who God is, as Trinitarians do.
Quote (t8 @ June 22 2010,17:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 23 2010,04:36) Quote (JustAskin @ June 21 2010,18:16) WJ, You are a Satan… You desire is try and cause me to sin.
You are not a good person.
You have fallen from an ignorant false believer, a trinitarian, down even more, to that of outright opposer.
You have repeatedly failed against me with your false belief, so much so that your ownly resort is to try and get me to trip myself up.
Why, WJ? If what you believe is true, if you are of God, if God is with you, if you speak truth, WJ, why does nothing prevail with you? Why does most of what you say prove to be false and yet for over x years you have been in this forum and I hear things that you do outside the forum which supposedly putss you in a higher position, one of a leader, a shepherd, a teacher…but you are blind…a blind leader, shepherd and an ignorant teacher… Not very good qualifications, eh?
WJ, what have you learnt over the years…'spiritually'?nothing… Why?….because Trinity only teaches you how to lie, how to cover up for it's deceit.
It is using you, and making you 'successful' for it's own purpose, like the 'Ring' in 'Lord of the Rings'…
WJ, take it off, and you will see the plain Wor[l]d of God, truth.
Take it off, WJ, and free yourself from its power and rule over you.WJ, pray to Go Almighty, through the spirit man, Jesus Christ, the one and only one who is the mediator between God Almighty and Mankind, having known firsthand the weakness of flesh and also the power of spirit, and therefore can empathise with man and yet be authorative in spirit.
JAThe ad hominem expert!
If Jesus is called “Mighty God” then is he your “Mighty God”?
Can you call him “Mighty God”?
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and “HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED” Wonderful, Counsellor, “The MIGHTY GOD“, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
You said satan is a “Mighty God”!
Does that mean to you that Jesus is “a god” in the sense satan is “a god”?
Thats what your brother Mike says!
Please stop with the babyish diatribe!
And answer the questions if you can.
You are acting like the “Pharasees and the Saducees” in there response to Jesus.
Sad-U-See!
WJ
Do you call him Everlasting Father too?I can call his both everlasting father (like father Abraham) and mighty El (mighty one). But he is not the Most High Theos. He is not the Almighty.
Trinitarians biggest defense is playing with words that look similar. But that is really deceptive. Just because words look the same doesn't mean they are. Plus you need to look at the context. Both YHWH and Satan are called theos. Context is everything. Without it, you can pick and choose who God is, as Trinitarians do.
t8The context of Isaiah 9:6 and 10:21 is the “Mighty God” is YHWH!
HA HA!
Gotta go. Have more but can't reply now!
WJ
Worshippingjesus said to martian:
Quote The temptations of Jesus had to do with human weakness and suffering and not from wicked sin that was in him.
Keith,Excellent post my brother! Jesus was tempted to fulfill a LEGITIMATE human need such as hunger. He never had inordinate desires.
Jack
t8 erroneously said:
Quote Both YHWH and Satan are called theos.
Satan was a usurper theos. Come on! Jesus is not a usurper.No comparison sir.
KJ
Hi KJ,
So when the greek suits you you expound it but when your dogmas do not fit logic is preferred??Quote (karmarie @ June 21 2010,19:01) Hi Martian, I agree with you that seeking a personal relationship with God is what is important and more important than seeking knowledge about God. Things are revealed the closer we become with God without the need to always read everything or search elsewhere. The pre-existance of Jesus however is not something we can know for sure, the Bible does say The Word was with God in the beginning, then the Word became flesh. Jesus said “Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.
So if The Word was a Spiritual being alongside God the Father, and the World was created through Him, we shouldnt assume that this wasnt true without knowing for sure. Because its taking away what The pre-existant Word (In the flesh Jesus) created which we are a part of.
So I would rather assume what the Bible says is correct. It seems The Word was with God and was part of God as a Spirit being, then the Word was made flesh, in the man Jesus.
If the Word was Gods spoken word and thought, where is the proof of that? It doesnt make sense with how The Word (as you say a part of God, Gods mind word thought) manifested in Jesus spoke to God the Father, its like a Trinitarian saying Jesus as God was talking to himself, somehow.
Jesus being pre-existant doesnt make anything harder or give him any advantage at all. He is Lord and master, and an example for us. He came to give us life through death. So theres alot more to it than just that.
But what is important? Romans 10:9
“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Karmarie………Remember you can not get what Trinitarians and Preexistences Get from scripture without forcing the text. For instance where does John say in John 1:1 that JESUS was the WORD of GOD HIMSELF. Now don't you think that such an important issue would have been clearly stated if John Meant to say Jesus was GOD or With GOD , He simply would have written Jesus there. It just that simple, So because it is not there Trinitarians force the text by changing the Word “WORD” for Jesus, Just understanding that alone should make you suspicious of there teachings. They a experts of adding thought to what is actually written, and it alway focuses on their false teachings. Martian is absolutely right in what he has written. Anyone who see Jesus as any thing more than a Human Being perfected by GOD the FATHER, just does not trustfully see Jesus IMO. He is and was ONE Of US HUMAN BEINGS. He it the (EXACT) EXAMPLE of us in (every way) without exception of any kind. Go back and reread what martian wrote and think about it some more , these trinitarian false teachers not only destory the work of Jesus, but the work of GOD, There teaching is a damed-able lie pure Idolatry it there ever was one. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 23 2010,09:44) t8 The context of Isaiah 9:6 and 10:21 is the “Mighty God” is YHWH!
HA HA!
Gotta go. Have more but can't reply now!
WJ
Try again WJ.He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,We know that Jesus sits on David's throne.
And who's plan is this?
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.In other words the zeal of the ALMIGHTY will put Jesus on David's throne and he will be called Mighty El.
No Trinity here. Try again.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 23 2010,09:58) t8 erroneously said: Quote Both YHWH and Satan are called theos.
Satan was a usurper theos. Come on! Jesus is not a usurper.No comparison sir.
KJ
I honestly do not think you should be teaching in such matters when you can't even grasp a simple point. The point for your benefit was that theos is not an exclusive title given to the Almighty. You need to read the context to see what theos or who is being referenced.That is it. No need to append your uSurplus sur.
Hi Gene, im sorry I cant agree with all that you wrote.
I see Jesus as all powerfull, second to God, sent from Heaven.
Dear Martian, Gene, and any others
These are some of the verses you are forgetting,
John 6:38-40
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
They all ate the same spiritual food
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.Hebrews 1:1-2
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universeJohn 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.John 3:12-15
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.Wisdom?
Proverbs 8:22-30
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God1 Corinthians 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God–that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.Corinthians 2:6-9
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
However, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”Ephesians 3:8-10
Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!Quote (karmarie @ June 23 2010,23:56) Dear Martian, Gene, and any others These are some of the verses you are forgetting,
John 6:38-40
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
They all ate the same spiritual food
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.Hebrews 1:1-2
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universeJohn 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.John 3:12-15
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.Colossians 1:15-16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.Wisdom?
Proverbs 8:22-30
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God1 Corinthians 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God–that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.Corinthians 2:6-9
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
However, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”Ephesians 3:8-10
Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!
Great post. and I agree much, IreneQuote (t8 @ June 22 2010,17:38) Do you call him Everlasting Father too?
Yep, if Abraham and Paul are Fathers of my faith, then Jesus is my “everlasting father” also.How about you?
Quote (t8 @ June 22 2010,17:38) I can call his both everlasting father (like father Abraham) and mighty El (mighty one). But he is not the Most High Theos. He is not the Almighty.
You are equivocating t8. You say you can call him “everlasting father” but can you say he is your “everlasting father”.Why are you shy about the term “mighty God” which you put in brackets as “mighty one”, No t8, that is not the translation of the term “mighty God, ('el Gibbowr). Gibbowr (mighty) is an adjective that modifies the masculine noun “El” (God). It doesn’t translate as you imply “mighty mighty one”.
He (Jesus) shall be called “Mighty God”, the same term is used by Isaiah in the next chapter for YHWH.
Tell us how it is that Jesus has the same appellative as YHWH? The term is only mentioned 4 times in the Hebrew Scriptures and this one time Isaiah ascribes the appellative to Jesus and in the same breath to YHWH.
Quote (t8 @ June 22 2010,17:38) Trinitarians biggest defense is playing with words that look similar. But that is really deceptive. Just because words look the same doesn't mean they are.
This is laughable.
So how does that work t8?Isaiah calls Jesus “mighty God” ('el Gibbowr), (Isa 9:6) then calls YHWH “mighty god” ('el Gibbowr) in the next chapter, (Isa 10:21), then we read of two other instances where YHWH is called “mighty God” ('el Gibbowr) by two other Prophets, (Jer 32:17 – Hab 1:12), yet you want us to believe that somehow “mighty God” means Isaiah is speaking of a lesser ('el Gibbowr)? The Hebrew structure of the text is the same. What is deceptive is you think Isaiah is speaking of some lesser God when it is Isaiah that all through his writings denies that there are any other Gods even like YWHW, let alone any other “mighty Gods.
“You alone, Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.” Isaiah 44:6
“Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.” Isaiah 44:8
“I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.” Isaiah 45:5
“Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God.” Isaiah 45:14
“I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
“Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.” Isaiah 45:21
“I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me” Isaiah 46:9
……………………………………….Thank you for this list Paul, (Isa 1:18)!Quote (t8 @ June 22 2010,17:38) Plus you need to look at the context. Both YHWH and Satan are called theos. Context is everything. Without it, you can pick and choose who God is, as Trinitarians do.
Ah, and you don't pick and choose who “God” (theos) is?This is where it is obvious who is playing with words. You call Jesus “a god” like satan yet you claim you follow Jesus and worship him, but he is not your god!
So tell us t8 if Jesus is “a god” to you and he is your Lord and Master, then why can you not say he is your “god” and if he is not your “god” then who’s god is he if he is “a god” according to you?
Who is playing with words?
You say you can call Jesus “everlasting father” so is he your “everlasting father” or not?
Do you follow Isaiah’s words in calling Jesus “mighty God”?
Is Jesus your “mighty God”?
Is he your Prince of Peace?
Is he your “Wonderful Counselor”?
Is he your “everlasting father”?
If you cannot answer yes to all the above, then who is it that is playing with words?
Is Jesus all those things, but he is not all those things to you?
Who is playing with words?
WJ
WJ,
Isaiah 10:21… What does it REALLY say…“…to THE Mighty God”
WJ, Isaiah 9:6:
What does it REALLY say?
“His NAME shall be called…Mighty God”.
What is the difference between 'THE Mighty God' and someone 'called' 'Mighty God'.
WJ, you are a 'Mighty God', I called you, a 'Mighty God'…are you therefore , 'THE Mighty God'?
WJ, what is wrong with your comprehension?
I told you that you are being destroyed…please repent before it is too late.
God's NAME is not 'Mighty God'.
Jesus is NAMED, according, to Isaiah, 'Wonderful'.
Jesus' name, according to Isaiah, is 'Everlasting Father'
Jesus' name, according to Isaiah, is 'Counselor'.
Jesus' name, according to Isaiah, is, 'Prince of Peace' (Why only 'Prince'?)
Jesus' name is also, 'Immanuel' ('God with us') and in case you decide to 'go off on one' ask yourself where the 'Gateway to Heaven' is, according to Jacob?(p.s. It's near an ancient town called 'Luz'!)WJ said to t8:
Quote Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.” Isaiah 44:8
Hey Keith,Paul must have known something God did not know. Paul said that Jesus was the “Rock” that guided them (1 Cor. 10).
Jack
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2010,13:10) Hi JA,
Indeed the Spirit of Christ did.
Jesus had not been born.
Hi Nick,Are you saying “The Spirit of Christ” is “The HolySpirit of His Father”(YHVH); is this what you have been trying to say?
1Cor.12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or
Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.1Cor.6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit.
Phil.1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ:
that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs,
that ye stand fast in one Spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;Eph:4:4: There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph.2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. (John 16:7-16)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi ED,
The Spirit of Christ is of the Spirit of God.
That unity we are to be enjoined with.Jn17.21-23
Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2010,13:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2010,13:10) Hi JA,
Indeed the Spirit of Christ did.
Jesus had not been born.
Hi Nick,Are you saying “The Spirit of Christ” is “The HolySpirit of His Father”(YHVH); is this what you have been trying to say?
1Cor.12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or
Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.1Cor.6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit.
Phil.1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ:
that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs,
that ye stand fast in one Spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;Eph:4:4: There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph.2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. (John 16:7-16)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjwhat is that “ONE SPIRIT”??
Pierre
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