Preexistence

[martian]

Quote (JustAskin @ June 16 2010,10:25)

Jack, God does not 'become' anything. God does not change, so how can he 'become'. He 'Is'. The YHVH, means 'he was, is and always will be' It means, 'He is'. It means, 'He will be'…always… “I will be what I Am' “I am what I Am” “I am what I Will be” “I will be what I will be” It's not about change to become, in fact it's the opposite. It is 'None Change'. A rock, how do you cling to a rock that changes…? How can you believe in a God that can Change, if He can change then He is not complete, is not final (Think if your thesis, a perfect thesis, why would you dumb it down, perfection dumbed dowm, no way…then why apply it, you and WJ, to God Almighty?)

I agree. YHWH means He exists. It is to say that God exists and will continue to exist, unchanging non morpheable to human or anything else.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,11:09)

Some try to say that God had to become a man in order understand our suffering and sacrifice himself for our salvation.  Firstly God understands us. He created us. Sacrificing oneself is a deep concept. We give medals to men in service that do such things. I wonder how many of those men would be willing to sacrifice their son for the same reasons? I cannot believe that any man would be able to sacrifice even their own imperfect sons. How much more difficult would it be for God to sacrifice his perfect son. A son that had fulfilled all he ask of him. A son that had never disappointed his father and always done what pleased him. If I had a son like that it would be much more difficult for me to sacrifice my son then to give up my life. God does not need to prove his sacrifice by become mortal and dieing. He made a more meaningful sacrifice in his perfect son.

The fact that God created us does not imply that He can understand us. The book of Hebrews says our high priest can be “touched with the feeling” of our infirmities.  If God could not become a man, then He could not be “touched with the feeling” of our infirmities and Jesus understands us better than God Himself. I repeat: Martian's view implies that Jesus understands us better than God.

Martian's view is gnostic because he denies that God can become one of us. His view is deistic because he denies that God could get personally involved. God had to send someone else who could get personally involved.

This is the problem with the anti-christian view. It was Christ who personally suffered. So how can God be my personal Savior if Christ was not God? Our personal Savior must be the very one who personally suffered.

Martian's assertion that God understands us just because He is our creator is not verifiable if Jesus was not God. Martian has to find how he can demonstrate that God understands us. Bare assertion is not enough!

Kangaroo Jack

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
Is it gnostic to disagree with what scripture does not say?
God was not Jesus.

God must suffer for you to be saved? Now that is gnostic

[terraricca]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 16 2010,11:41)

Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,11:09) Some try to say that God had to become a man in order understand our suffering and sacrifice himself for our salvation.  Firstly God understands us. He created us. Sacrificing oneself is a deep concept. We give medals to men in service that do such things. I wonder how many of those men would be willing to sacrifice their son for the same reasons? I cannot believe that any man would be able to sacrifice even their own imperfect sons. How much more difficult would it be for God to sacrifice his perfect son. A son that had fulfilled all he ask of him. A son that had never disappointed his father and always done what pleased him. If I had a son like that it would be much more difficult for me to sacrifice my son then to give up my life. God does not need to prove his sacrifice by become mortal and dieing. He made a more meaningful sacrifice in his perfect son. The fact that God created us does not imply that He can understand us. The book of Hebrews says our high priest can be “touched with the feeling” of our infirmities.  If God could not become a man, then He could not be “touched with the feeling” of our infirmities and Jesus understands us better than God Himself. I repeat: Martian's view implies that Jesus understands us better than God. Martian's view is gnostic because he denies that God can become one of us. His view is deistic because he denies that God could get personally involved. God had to send someone else who could get personally involved. This is the problem with the anti-christian view. It was Christ who personally suffered. So how can God be my personal Savior if Christ was not God? Our personal Savior must be the very one who personally suffered. Martian's assertion that God understands us just because He is our creator is not verifiable if Jesus was not God. Martian has to find how he can demonstrate that God understands us. Bare assertion is not enough! Kangaroo Jack

JK

in your world the King serves the individual,even the lowest of them,

in God s world ,God bring to you the way to achieve your acceptance to him so he may give you your live back,if not you lose.
who are men to be of any value to God unless he can use them in his world not ours.

God is God and men is only men no comparison.

Pierre

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 16 2010,12:16)

Hi KJ, Is it gnostic to disagree with what scripture does not say? God was not Jesus. God must suffer for you to be saved? Now that is gnostic

Hi brother Nick,
I wonder who is Gnostic here. Everyone blames the other. Can you see how Christianity has become a mess. They left the true religion of Israel.

Please think over
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
But you never had access to their hope.
You do have in the perfect Jew Jesus but it seems you have no faith in him.

[JustAskin]

Brother Terra, and Martian, are right.

And Nick is right.

Jesus came as a witness of God, a witness to God.

Jesus himself says that he speaks what the father taught him to speak.

Silly point, but how is Jesus 'God' if God taught him.

The answer is 'not'.

Only by forcing scriptures can Jesus be 'God'. Even, even, even, if,…even if, Jesus were God, scriptures says he 'emptied himself and became man in then flesh'. This means he would no longer be 'God' but 'man'.

Scriptures also says that anyone who does not believe that Jesus came (Jesus, not God) in the flesh, suffered, died and was raised again by God, is denying God and condemns Jesus. Basically, calling God a liar and desiring that Jesus be again crucified for that person's sake alone.

God cannot change, God cannot die. To die is also to change and God does not change state.

Ha! If God died as Jesus, where then is the Trinity?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:01)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2010,09:11) Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,16:44) WJ, God does not become anything he wants to be. God does not change. God changes neither his mind nor his person. What other thing can God become. Everything is 'Within' God, what need is there ever, for God to become something within himself. If he were to do that then he would not be God. Does a field marshall become one of the troops?Does a Man become a Child, or a Woman? God nearly always does his work through a third party. The main 'third party' is his Son, Jesus Christ, his 'perfect servant' and begotten heir. (In the film, 'The Godfather', did the Godfather, once he became the Godfather) ever do anything 'outside'? No, he 'spoke' and the Caporegime (The Princes) acted out his 'Word' on his behalf JA To say that God cannot change form or be what he wants is to limit God. It is a false concept that God cannot interact and become one with his creation if he so chooses! It is also false to believe that God created something out of nothing, for everything that came into being came from him who is the source of all things! Would you limit God to be less than his Angels, when even the Angels can appear as a man? So why is it hard to believe that God can come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man if he so chooses? Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form. “I-shall-be that I-shall-be.“ WJ How idiotic is this post !!!!! WJ and others continue to preach lies about God. They teach a God other then the true Christian God. There are things that God cannot do. Not because he is lacking in power as WJ says I project but because his nature does not permit Him to change from who he is.

Why do you misrepresent me?  

This is what I said…

“Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form“.

To say that God cannot come down to meet man in his level though it be by an Angel or Man or to appear as a man as the Angels can, is to limit God!

Your God is unreachable! Moses saw the backside of God, because he could not look on his face.

Yet do you believe that the infinite God in all of his Glory is what Moses saw or was it a visible image of the invisible God?

You guys believe that Jesus could change his visage so that what they saw looked like a Spirit, yet God cannot take on form without diminishing his immutable qualities?  

What a small God you serve!

“I-shall-be that I-shall-be.“

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:04)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2010,09:17) Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,17:07) 'Jesus' EMPTIED himself of hid Divinity and became wholly man….A perfect Man, as 'perfect' in form as God had created Adam. JA where is the scripture for this? Jesus did not empty himself of his nature! It's interesting that you think that Jesus could “change his nature” but that the Father couldn't change his nature? Hello! WJ We do agreed upon that.  Phil 2 has nothing to do with God emptying anything. It has to do with “attitude” as the context clearly says. It is a direct comparison between the first Adam and the second Adam (Christ)

Martian

Thanks, but no we do not agree!

If Jesus could “empty himself” (which has nothing to do with changing his divine nature) and come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man, as the text clearly indicates, that in itself is proof of his Deity, The Greek text clearly reveals that it is Jesus performing the act!

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……….Question that needs to be answered, Did Jesus come as a morphed being? When John said whoever does not confess Jesus as (COMING)) in the Flesh is not of GOD. Now What is the intent of the word (coming) is it coming into existence as flesh being or is it be morphed into a flesh being from one state to another state. The gnostic who existed at the time of John were saying Jesus was a (GOD) and came from the Pelora to straighten out what the first GOD screwed up. They believe he only appeared as a Man but was in disguise and was really the true GOD. Much like Trinitarians and Preexistences believe.

But John or for that matter (NO) apostle ever said Jesus preexisted his berth except for the foreordained plan of GOD, as Peter brought out Now would not they have known and spoken about this it indeed Jesus preexisted his berth on earth as some kind of angel or demigod ?.

Jesus did speak of his (predestined) Glory that He had with the Father before the World began, he knew full well he was the (FIRST) Man to be perfected (BY) GOD and raised to eternal Life, from all Humanity , the first and with that the position afforded him (BY) GOD the Father who exulted Him above His brothers as scriptures say. But none of this has anything to do with a Preexistence as some kind of BEING or ancient past demigod or angelic existence.

The Whole concept of Jesus' preexistence was developed by TRINITARIANS forcing and altering the text to create another GOD, a MAN GOD. It is nothing but an absolute LIE read 2Ths2 and ask GOD to understand it, it is plain to those who have eyes to see it, it is all written right there by Paul , and John backed this up also. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi JA

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

WJ, I am tempted to call you a 'joke' for someone whom claims to be a pastor, but I won't.

You just did!

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

First off, I never said God created something out of nothing. Where did you get that from. I said everything is within God…did you not read that part? I wrote a whole 'thing on what God is', i guess you can't have read it.

I never said you did, I was merely making a point. Man grow up and settle down, you get your blood pressure up to easily!

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

Secondly, WHY…why would the creator want to change…you keep going on about 'limiting God'. How is God limited when He IS everything, everything Is of Him. Why would the houseowner want to become a tenant in his own house? Who then would be the owner? Understand with wisdom WJ. Did you not understand the simili with the Godfather? Or did you choose to ignore it?

You are going off the deep end again. Read with comprehension JA, this is what I said…

“Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form“.

Seriously, are you saying God cannot appear to man in a form that would not kill him? If so then your God is unreachable!

The Angels can change form and still be the Angel, right?

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

Arrggh…'God come in the form of sinful flesh'… Excuse me? Are you for real? Please read that again and ask yourself what is wrong with that statement?

Plenty, but that is not what I said is it? This is what I said…

So why is it hard to believe that God can come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man if he so chooses?

You should quote me, you know that little button on the right top of the post?

I merely quoted the scriptures. Here I’ll take my time to show you…

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness (homoiōma) of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:3

The Greek word for “likeness” is homoiōma which means;

1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

Paul is not saying Jesus was in sinful flesh, for if he was then his blood would be tainted with sin and he could not be the Sinless, Pure and perfect Lamb of God!

That is the same word that is used in Phil 2:7…

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made (ginomai) in the likeness (homoiōma) of men: Phil 2:7

The Greek word ‘made’ is “ginomai” which means…

1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

Then we read…

And being found in fashion (schēma) as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:8

The word fashion is the Greek word ‘schēma’ which means;

1) the habitus, as comprising everything in a person which strikes the senses, the figure, bearing, discourse, actions, manner of life etc.

Now this is what I said…

So why is it hard to believe that God can come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man if he so chooses?

So let’s put this all together.

In the beginning was the Word (who was in very nature God Phil 2:6) and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (in very nature God, of the same essence as the Father, who is also in very nature God. Heb 1:3, Phil 2:6) John 1:1

And the Word (who is in very nature God was made (ginomai-came into existence Phil 2:7) (in the likeness of sinful Rom 8:3, Phil 2:7, ) flesh, and dwelt (Greek-tabernacle) among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (The Word/ God revealing Glory in the likeness of sinful flesh)

Again, I said…

So why is it hard to believe that God can come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man if he so chooses?

So please explain to me how my exegesis is not scriptural?

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

I think you are confusing scripture verses that say God will come to his people, or similar. It is not the 'person' of God that comes but His Word, what He spoke, the testament that He spoke to His Son.

So Moses and Abraham did not see or speak to God but just his word, not the person of God?

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

You, at one point adhere to this, and in another claim it is God himself…man, you are all over the place.

Please, show me how?

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

Where does it say Jesus emptied himself of his divinity…WJ, should I even answer this?

Yes that is the question isn’t it? But scripturally you can’t answer it because the scriptures do not say that he “emptied himself of his Divinity or his Divine nature. As I said…

“It's interesting that you think that Jesus could “change his nature” but that the Father couldn't change his nature?”

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

You know what, no, I won't… You ask, only because you are attempting to deny a very basic scriptural truth, how odd?

What scriptural truth are you talking about? That Jesus changed his nature? Do you believe in reincarnation?

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

And you quote God's name as if you are making a revelation. But you are wrong. That is not what it means. It means He is who he Is. And that is an indescribable entity that can only be 'seen' by sinless flesh or spirit. It doesn't mean that He is 'different things' as He wants,  that is not 'God'.

Then Moses and the others were telling lies?

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

WJ, why do you not quote scriptures where God say that He does not change…and that is right: God does not change, neither His mind, nor his form. If one claims that Jesus is 'perfect' then what of God Almighty?

You ask for scriptures but you show none for your statements above.

What Bible are you reading? God surely has changed his mind and his form.

The immutable qualities of God's character cannot change but he can interact with his creation and change his form to whatever he cares to.

Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,18:09)

WJ, try to be true to Truth and not just make out nonesense just to cause dispute.

Relax man! Am I not free to express my views here?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2010,09:55)

To All……….Question that needs to be answered, Did Jesus come as a morphed being? When John said whoever does not confess Jesus as (COMING)) in the Flesh is not of GOD.  Now What is the intent of the word (coming) is it coming into existence as flesh being or is it be morphed into a flesh being from one state to another state. The gnostic who existed at the time of John were saying Jesus was a (GOD) and came from the Pelora to straighten out what the first GOD screwed up.  They believe he only appeared as a Man but was in disguise  and was really the true GOD. Much like Trinitarians and Preexistences believe. But John or for that matter (NO) apostle ever said Jesus preexisted his berth except for the foreordained plan of GOD, as Peter brought out Now would not they have known and spoken about this it indeed Jesus preexisted his berth on earth as some kind of angel or demigod ?.   Jesus did speak of his (predestined) Glory that He had with the Father before the World began, he knew full well he was the (FIRST) Man to be perfected (BY) GOD and raised to eternal Life, from all Humanity , the first and with that the position afforded him (BY) GOD the Father who exulted Him above His brothers as scriptures say. But none of this has anything to do with a Preexistence as some kind of BEING or ancient past demigod or angelic existence. The Whole concept of Jesus' preexistence was developed by TRINITARIANS forcing and altering the text to create another GOD, a MAN GOD. It is nothing but an absolute LIE read 2Ths2 and ask GOD to understand it, it is plain to those who have eyes to see it, it is all written right there by Paul , and John backed this up also. IMO peace and love to you all…………………gene

Gene

What you speak is fallacy and a strawmans argument!

If God can live in a man and speak through him, then God could live in a body of his own and speak to man.

Jesus blood and body is the blood and body of God. Acts 20:28

God was manifest in the flesh! 1 Tim 3:16, John 14:7

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:48)

He has met him in a salvation experience. I have no doubt that he has had some success in overcoming the evil one (despite his false doctrine) however I do doubt he knows the one who is from the beginning or he could never attempt to prove that this Christian God could change his character or mortality or worse yet that the real God could stop being God.

That’s not at all what I said was it? Why do you deceitfully misrepresent me? It is the enemy’s tricks to bear false witness!

Wow I had no Idea that I would stir up so much hostility! HMMM, that was normally the reaction of the Pharisees and the Sadusees when Jesus spoke the truth!

“Sad-U-See”,

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ…….Being manifested (IN) the flesh is not the same as (BEING) Flesh now is it , so are you saying what the Gnostic's were saying that Jesus was GOD and only appeared to be in flesh form, it that more accurate in you Trinitarian belief system. So you and the Gnostic's have a lot in common right?. You both Believe Jesus is a GOD and appeared in flesh form, and in deed the Trinity concept did spring into existence through the Gnostic's. But John disagree with them it appears, he said if we don niot see Jesus as a flesh being we are (NOT) of GOD. So where do you stand WJ.

peace and love to you and your…………………..gene

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,02:21)

Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:48) He has met him in a salvation experience. I have no doubt that he has had some success in overcoming the evil one (despite his false doctrine) however I do doubt he knows the one who is from the beginning or he could never attempt to prove that this Christian God could change his character or mortality or worse yet that the real God could stop being God. That’s not at all what I said was it? Why do you deceitfully misrepresent me? It is the enemy’s tricks to bear false witness! Wow I had no Idea that I would stir up so much hostility! HMMM, that was normally the reaction of the Pharisees and the Sadusees when Jesus spoke the truth! “Sad-U-See”, WJ

You say you do not say God can become mortal yet in the post right previous to this on you say “Jesus blood and body is the blood and body of God. Acts 20:28” So you say God has blood and a body. Sure sounds like you are calling God mortal to me.
As I have said your interpretation of that verse must be wrong if your end conclusion changes the nature or character of God.
Thank you for proving yourself wrong so clearly.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2010,10:29)

WJ…….Being manifested (IN) the flesh is not the same as (BEING) Flesh now is it , so are you saying what the Gnostic's were saying that Jesus was GOD and only appeared to be in flesh form, it that more accurate in you Trinitarian belief system. So you and the Gnostic's have a lot in common right?.  You both Believe Jesus is a GOD and appeared in flesh form, and in deed the Trinity concept did spring into existence through the Gnostic's.  But John disagree with them it appears, he said if we don niot see Jesus as a flesh being we are (NOT) of GOD. So where do you stand WJ. peace and love to you and your…………………..gene

So what did Jesus mean when he said…

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7

If God cannot appear in the flesh?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,10:33)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,02:21) Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:48) He has met him in a salvation experience. I have no doubt that he has had some success in overcoming the evil one (despite his false doctrine) however I do doubt he knows the one who is from the beginning or he could never attempt to prove that this Christian God could change his character or mortality or worse yet that the real God could stop being God. That’s not at all what I said was it? Why do you deceitfully misrepresent me? It is the enemy’s tricks to bear false witness! Wow I had no Idea that I would stir up so much hostility! HMMM, that was normally the reaction of the Pharisees and the Sadusees when Jesus spoke the truth! “Sad-U-See”, WJ You say you do not say God can become mortal yet in the post right previous to this on you say “Jesus blood and body is the blood and body of God. Acts 20:28”  So you say God has blood and a body. Sure sounds like you are calling God mortal to me. As I have said your interpretation of that verse must be wrong if your end conclusion changes the nature or character of God. Thank you for proving yourself wrong so clearly.

Martian

What does Acts 20:28 say?

Does “of God” mean anything to you? The scriptures clearly teach that “our bodies are his temple”. They also teach that our bodies are our tabernacle or tent, or like clothes that can be put off and changed!

So God is a Spirit who can live in a “body” (temple) of flesh, can he not?

WJ

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,00:34)

Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2010,09:11) Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,16:44) WJ, God does not become anything he wants to be. God does not change. God changes neither his mind nor his person. What other thing can God become. Everything is 'Within' God, what need is there ever, for God to become something within himself. If he were to do that then he would not be God. Does a field marshall become one of the troops?Does a Man become a Child, or a Woman? God nearly always does his work through a third party. The main 'third party' is his Son, Jesus Christ, his 'perfect servant' and begotten heir. (In the film, 'The Godfather', did the Godfather, once he became the Godfather) ever do anything 'outside'? No, he 'spoke' and the Caporegime (The Princes) acted out his 'Word' on his behalf JA To say that God cannot change form or be what he wants is to limit God. It is a false concept that God cannot interact and become one with his creation if he so chooses! It is also false to believe that God created something out of nothing, for everything that came into being came from him who is the source of all things! Would you limit God to be less than his Angels, when even the Angels can appear as a man? So why is it hard to believe that God can come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man if he so chooses? Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form. “I-shall-be that I-shall-be.“ WJ How idiotic is this post !!!!! WJ and others continue to preach lies about God. They teach a God other then the true Christian God. There are things that God cannot do. Not because he is lacking in power as WJ says I project but because his nature does not permit Him to change from who he is. Why do you misrepresent me?   This is what I said… “Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form“. To say that God cannot come down to meet man in his level though it be by an Angel or Man or to appear as a man as the Angels can, is to limit God! Your God is unreachable! Moses saw the backside of God, because he could not look on his face. Yet do you believe that the infinite God in all of his Glory is what Moses saw or was it a visible image of the invisible God? You guys believe that Jesus could change his visage so that what they saw looked like a Spirit, yet God cannot take on form without diminishing his immutable qualities?   What a small God you serve! “I-shall-be that I-shall-be.“ WJ

Yet if as you say he cannot change his character then he could never be tempted. To be tempted one must be capable of sin. Was Jesus tempted like all other men or not.
You play with words all the time. You say his character cannot change yet demand his character change to be a temptable being.
Double talk and nonsense.

[martian]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,02:38)

Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,10:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,02:21) Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:48) He has met him in a salvation experience. I have no doubt that he has had some success in overcoming the evil one (despite his false doctrine) however I do doubt he knows the one who is from the beginning or he could never attempt to prove that this Christian God could change his character or mortality or worse yet that the real God could stop being God. That’s not at all what I said was it? Why do you deceitfully misrepresent me? It is the enemy’s tricks to bear false witness! Wow I had no Idea that I would stir up so much hostility! HMMM, that was normally the reaction of the Pharisees and the Sadusees when Jesus spoke the truth! “Sad-U-See”, WJ You say you do not say God can become mortal yet in the post right previous to this on you say “Jesus blood and body is the blood and body of God. Acts 20:28”  So you say God has blood and a body. Sure sounds like you are calling God mortal to me. As I have said your interpretation of that verse must be wrong if your end conclusion changes the nature or character of God. Thank you for proving yourself wrong so clearly. Martian What does Acts 20:28 say? Does “of God” mean anything to you? The scriptures clearly teach that “our bodies are his temple”. They also teach that our bodies are our tabernacle or tent, or like clothes that can be put off and changed! So God is a Spirit who can live in a “body” (temple) of flesh, can he not? WJ

You would have a good point if it said “of God” It says “of own”.
You presume it means of own self but that is based on your doctrine. I could as easily say it is his own son.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,10:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,00:34) Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,18:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2010,09:11) Quote (JustAskin @ June 15 2010,16:44) WJ, God does not become anything he wants to be. God does not change. God changes neither his mind nor his person. What other thing can God become. Everything is 'Within' God, what need is there ever, for God to become something within himself. If he were to do that then he would not be God. Does a field marshall become one of the troops?Does a Man become a Child, or a Woman? God nearly always does his work through a third party. The main 'third party' is his Son, Jesus Christ, his 'perfect servant' and begotten heir. (In the film, 'The Godfather', did the Godfather, once he became the Godfather) ever do anything 'outside'? No, he 'spoke' and the Caporegime (The Princes) acted out his 'Word' on his behalf JA To say that God cannot change form or be what he wants is to limit God. It is a false concept that God cannot interact and become one with his creation if he so chooses! It is also false to believe that God created something out of nothing, for everything that came into being came from him who is the source of all things! Would you limit God to be less than his Angels, when even the Angels can appear as a man? So why is it hard to believe that God can come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be found in fashion as a man if he so chooses? Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form. “I-shall-be that I-shall-be.“ WJ How idiotic is this post !!!!! WJ and others continue to preach lies about God. They teach a God other then the true Christian God. There are things that God cannot do. Not because he is lacking in power as WJ says I project but because his nature does not permit Him to change from who he is. Why do you misrepresent me?   This is what I said… “Yes the immutable qualities of his character cannot change, but the creator of all things can appear or become what ever he wants by changing his form“. To say that God cannot come down to meet man in his level though it be by an Angel or Man or to appear as a man as the Angels can, is to limit God! Your God is unreachable! Moses saw the backside of God, because he could not look on his face. Yet do you believe that the infinite God in all of his Glory is what Moses saw or was it a visible image of the invisible God? You guys believe that Jesus could change his visage so that what they saw looked like a Spirit, yet God cannot take on form without diminishing his immutable qualities?   What a small God you serve! “I-shall-be that I-shall-be.“ WJ Yet if as you say he cannot change his character then he could never be tempted. To be tempted one must be capable of sin. Was Jesus tempted like all other men or not. You play with words all the time. You say his character cannot change yet demand his character change to be a temptable being. Double talk and nonsense.

We have already been over this.

Jesus could not be tempted to sin! The Tempter did the Tempting.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14

You apparently do not believe this scripture or Jesus words when he said satan comes and finds nothing in him.

Jesus said it is not what goes in the man that defiles the man but what comes out of the man.

What evil would you accuse Jesus of having in himself?

WJ

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