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Quote (terraricca @ April 08 2010,23:01) WJ
..you for sure do not have Gods spirit .some irrelevant scriptures knowledge yes,in the understanding of the spirit of God you have shown NONE.
TInstead of puking out sour accusations at me, why don't you refute the scriptures that I give.
Argue with the scriptures. If you have the Son of God you have life. That means he is the source of my life.
I am crucified with Christ: “nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME“: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20
But is now made manifest by “the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and **HATH BROUGHT LIFE** and immortality to light through the gospel: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for “I KNOW WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED, and am persuaded that he (Jesus my source) is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day”. 2 Tim 1:10-12
WJ
Quote (t8 @ April 09 2010,08:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 09 2010,14:34) Marty Thanks! I am glad to know that he is not the source of eternal salvation and the “author and finisher of your faith”.
And that he is not the “Life” in you!
WJ
I think you are taking this beyond what is intended.The source (God) through Jesus (his image) has given us salvation.
So Jesus is the one through whom we get to the Father. Therefore he is the author and perfecter of our faith because it is he who who brings us to God. Obviously this is God's will and acknowledging that it is God's will shows that Jesus is doing God's will. Is this not the role of a mediator?
t8No because the Mediator and the Father are one.
The Father has committed all things into Jesus hands.
However the opposers give lip service to Jesus having all things.
For he is merely a funnel to them with no substance of his own. If he possesses all things and we recieve anything from him then he is the source!
Everything that we have in God is in Jesus! That makes Jesus the source of everything to us! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if the scriptures say Jesus is the life then if we have Jesus we have life. This means that Jesus is now the source of eternal salvation to all those that believe.
This does not take away from the Father being the source for it pleased the Father that all fullness dwells in him.
So the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the source of life to all mankind and every living thing!
WJ
WJ…………They are ONE in agreement, that does not make them one and the same Being. If they were one and the same Being why would Jesus pray to His FATHER (IN) HEAVEN. Come on man wake up!.
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (t8 @ April 09 2010,08:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 08 2010,14:10) Marty So I take it Jesus is not your source!
Thankyou!
WJ
Actually WJ, he is the head of man. And the head of Christ is God.So God is overall and through all. Christ is appointed as Lord by God to rule.
God > Christ > Man.
So ultimately God is the source of all and Christ is the head. As the head, God has made salvation in no other name.
t8Yes, and the head of the woman is man. Is the woman less human than the man? No they are identical in nature, they are “One flesh”.
So the scripture that you use is proof of nothing except the order in rank. For the Father and Jesus and the 'Comforter” are “One Spirit”.
Jesus is “One” with the Father not just in unity of purpose but in essence, for he is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, (Heb 12:3), he was the Word that was with God and was God, (Form of God Phil 2:6), the one John also called the “Word of life”, the life and light of men and the “Eternal life” that was with the Father!
Everything comes to us from the Father through the Son, but everything also goes through the Son to the Father!
He that hath the Son hath life! Without Jesus there is no Father for the child of God, that makes him my source!
WJ
Quote (t8 @ April 09 2010,08:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,03:22) t8 First of all it is the Psalmist that is speaking and not YHWH!
Secondly, the Psalmist is confessing his error when he says they shall die like fallen men!
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Pss 82:7
Third, YHWH says there were no gods formed, yet you continue to hold onto the fact that there are other gods in scriptures and even worse assume that is what our Lord believed by quoting the Psalmist words.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME“. Isa 43:10
Paul agrees with this statement…
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and “THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE” For even if there “are so‑called gods“, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),. 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Now as soon as you or anyone else can effectively explain why Jesus is called “The God” with the definite article then you may have a case, otherwise your statement is just smoke in the wind and a pure confession of Polytheism.
Quote (t8 @ April 06 2010,03:24) 2) Jesus didn't say yes, I am God, instead he said “I am God's son”
Once you have a revelation of what it means for one to claim that he is the “Only Son of God” and that God was his personal Father, then you will see why they wanted to stone Jesus for claiming he was the Son of God.If it was no big deal to say he was a Son of God then why did they become infuriated by his confession? Why did Peter need a special revelation? Why did the demons cry out who he was and Jesus tell them to not speak of it?
The Apostle John knew exactly what Jesus words meant…
For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, “but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God“.
Little wonder he wrote John 1:1, 18 – John 20:28 – 1 John 5:20.
The burden of proof is on you and the unbelievers that Jesus is not God to the Apostles and the Forefathers!
WJ
It doesn't change anything.We are all sons of the Most High?
Jesus said that he was the son of God when the Jews accused him of implying he was God.
Not so t8!For Jesus is the “one and only Son of God”, all others are by adoption.
Quote (t8 @ April 09 2010,08:58) I agree with Jesus that he is the son of God (as he said). I do not agree with the Jews and you who said/say that he was saying he is God. Argue with John for it his commentary that says Jesus was breaking the Sabbath and making himself equal to God…
For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, “but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God“. John 5:18
John didn't correct them for their claim but he himself understood Jesus claim.
The revelation that Jesus was the Son of God was not a common term and to the Jew meant that anyone claiming God was their own personal Father was claiming to be God or equal to him just as John reveals, that is why in more than one occasion they wanted to stone him!
Why did Jesus command the devils to not make it known that he was the Son of God if this was a common term among the Jews? Why did it take special revelation for Peter to know who Jesus was?
It still does take the Spirit of God to confess that Jesus is Lord (YHWH). Doubting Thomas finally saw who he was!
WJ
Quote (t8 @ April 09 2010,09:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,03:22) Now as soon as you or anyone else can effectively explain why Jesus is called “The God” with the definite article then you may have a case, otherwise your statement is just smoke in the wind and a pure confession of Polytheism.
Satan is called the God of this Age.
So is he God too?And he is not the false God of this age either. He actually is the God of this Age.
The way to explain it is that he is not the one true God. The one true God is the Father and he sent the son.
Also, angels are referred to as elohim. Does that make them the one true God?
Again, no.
For us there is one God the Father. Not sure why you need to oppose that.
t8
Please, where is the Apostle or follower of Jesus who call any other being “Their God” with the definite article but the Father and Jesus?Where is the scripture that claims “Angels are gods” to man?
Why would you claim satan is the “God” of this world with a capitol “G”. This flys in the face of hundreds of Greek scholars!
Is satan a “God” to you? Do you see satan as a “God”. Pure Polytheism!
Paul saw satan him for what he is, a usurper over the lives of unbelievers who are the children of darkness.
Why do you make comparison to Jesus being called God with satan who is not a god at all but rather a so-called god.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME“. Isa 43:10
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and “THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE” For even if there “are so‑called gods“, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),. 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Do these words mean anything to you?
Your scriptural quote from 1 Cor 8:6 is proof of your bias because Paul is not claiming the Father is exclusively “True God” or else Jesus is exclusively Lord and the Father is not Lord! Strawman!
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 09 2010,12:15) WJ…………They are ONE in agreement, that does not make them one and the same Being. If they were one and the same Being why would Jesus pray to His FATHER (IN) HEAVEN. Come on man wake up!. peace and love………………………gene
GeneThey are one like the Sun and the Sun rays!
You can't have the one without the other!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 10 2010,03:53) Quote (terraricca @ April 08 2010,23:01) WJ
..you for sure do not have Gods spirit .some irrelevant scriptures knowledge yes,in the understanding of the spirit of God you have shown NONE.
TInstead of puking out sour accusations at me, why don't you refute the scriptures that I give.
Argue with the scriptures. If you have the Son of God you have life. That means he is the source of my life.
I am crucified with Christ: “nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME“: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20
But is now made manifest by “the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and **HATH BROUGHT LIFE** and immortality to light through the gospel: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for “I KNOW WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED, and am persuaded that he (Jesus my source) is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day”. 2 Tim 1:10-12
WJ
WJlet have it very clear ,first you are not Paul and me ether,
so Paul addresses his argument and teachings to believers in the words of Christ and of his God ,what you obviously do not
so were is your argument to qualify to be able to receive any of the things of what Paul talks about???
remember you are a pagan believer TRINITY.
Quote (JustAskin @ April 09 2010,11:45) Hey WJ, Set up the challenge then.
What ya wanna know – yor starter for 10!
JAFantastic! I will.
WJ
WJ……….If you believe what scriptures say, Jesus is the (IMAGE) of GOD. Now consider what a Image is> The word image means to reflect or Mirror something , Jesus reflects GOD the FATHER to Us. You should better look at it as the Suns Light is Reflected BY the Moon and the stars also reflect it. Man was made to also reflect GOD , because it say we are created in His IMAGE, and Jesus is Also in His image. Now should we also say according to your theory that we are A GOD also. Think about it?
peace and love…………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 10 2010,14:45) WJ……….If you believe what scriptures say, Jesus is the (IMAGE) of GOD. Now consider what a Image is> The word image means to reflect or Mirror something , Jesus reflects GOD the FATHER to Us. You should better look at it as the Suns Light is Reflected BY the Moon and the stars also reflect it. Man was made to also reflect GOD , because it say we are created in His IMAGE, and Jesus is Also in His image. Now should we also say according to your theory that we are A GOD also. Think about it? peace and love…………….gene
genethis is redone;
——————————————————————————–
Quote (martian @ Jan. 11 2008,09:59)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2008,08:38)
I hear all the chatter. But know one has scripturally addressed my post.Please dont use man made logic without scripture.
No one has given me an answer to my questions?
The main one being…
Is there anything about the nature of Jesus that is not the same as the Father?
Tell me how if Jesus is the exact representation of his person, substance, essence, how he is different.
If you claim he is, then Heb 1:3 is not true. Because if he is different in nature then he cant be the “exact representation of his person, substance, essence”!
Then think about the ways the Father is unlike us and always will be as God.
Of course you ignore the definition of “representation”.
Even after I posted it.Representation
the instrument used for engraving or carving
the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
a mark or figure burned in (Lev. 13:
or stamped on, an impression
the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimileSo are you going to sit there and tell me that an image of a thing is the same as the original? A reproduction is the same as the original? A facsimile is the same as the original. A marked likeness? An exact expression? An impression? Are any of thee the same as the original.
If you truly believe these things are the same as the original, I would like to sell you some reproduction antiques at the same price as the originals.
GET A CLUE! The nonsense chatter is still coming from you!martian
You say…Quote
So are you going to sit there and tell me that an image of a thing is the same as the original? A reproduction is the same as the original? A facsimile is the same as the original. A marked likeness? An exact expression? An impression? Are any of thee the same as the original.
We are not just talking about an image here. We are talking about the very essence and substance of what makes God, God.
Look at the definition…
precise reproduction in every respect,
If Jesus is not like the Father in every way then he could not be the exact expression of the Father.
In fact he could not be the “Image of the invisible God”, God in the flesh revealing himself to mankind. Col 1:15
You are getting the identity of the Father and the Son mixed up with their nature.
You are 100% human in substance as your Father.
So the chatter of human logic trying to bring Jesus down to a mere man goes on.
You didnt answer any of my questions!
How is Jesus any different than the Father in nature?
————–
Mathew 28:9
And as they went to tell his disciples, beholdWhy is Jesus a Representation of God if He Is God?
How is the representation of something the actual something?
When 'we become like Christ' we will also, therefore, be representations of God…and Be God Himself – all of us Will Be God as Jesus Is God.
In any case, we are already God Himself, according to trinitarian thinking, because we are in the Image of God, just as Jesus is the Image of God – and they happily say that Jesus is God Himself.
Only a teaser: Why is there no mention of the FATHER OF GOD?
Neither, WJ, TT, katjo, Isaiah 1:18, nor any Scriptures, mention this anomaly.
We know who God is.
We know what the Holy Spirit of God is.
We know who the Son of God is.
But who is the Father of God?If Jesus is the Son of God (and he is) then who is his Father of God?
The Trinity Triangle
God Almighty
/ l \
Father Son Holy Spirit
of God of God of GodQ: Is the diagram above a good diagramatic representation of the Trinity God (Godhead)?
The (My) Monotheistic God
God (The Father, God Almighty, YHVH, 'I AM') <— Holy Spirit of God
Q: Is this a true diagramatic representation of the True, monotheistic, God?
All responses respected.
JA………That is why there religion is called a MYSTERY because they don't even understand it and most Trinitarian Scholars will openly admit it. At least they are honest and admit it has to be taken on “Faith”. Without any true scriptural understandings. The same with Preexistences they tweak and force the text and ask us to believe Jesus was Morphed into existence from a preexisting demigod or some super beings who created all things. There are literally hundreds of spin-offs from the MYSTERY TEACHING caused by the Pagan APOSTATE CHURCHES. These are the Trinity, Preexistences, doctrines about Devils and Demons, and Literal Hell Fire teachings and on and on it goes, clouds of confusions fostered by false “Christendom” On us all. But thanks be to GOD the FATHER , he has seen fit to deliver us from their false teachings by the power of His Holy Spirit given us who truly believe. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 11 2010,01:21) JA………That is why there religion is called a MYSTERY because they don't even understand it and most Trinitarian Scholars will openly admit it. At least they are honest and admit it has to be taken on “Faith”. Without any true scriptural understandings. The same with Preexistences they tweak and force the text and ask us to believe Jesus was Morphed into existence from a preexisting demigod or some super beings who created all things. There are literally hundreds of spin-offs from the MYSTERY TEACHING caused by the Pagan APOSTATE CHURCHES. These are the Trinity, Preexistences, doctrines about Devils and Demons, and Literal Hell Fire teachings and on and on it goes, clouds of confusions fostered by false “Christendom” On us all. But thanks be to GOD the FATHER , he has seen fit to deliver us from their false teachings by the power of His Holy Spirit given us who truly believe. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
geneone correction in your statement ,Christ preexisted,Jesus made that clear ,so do not sneak it in there as correlated.
this is not the true way ,go to the topic to find more.
Quote (JustAskin @ April 10 2010,20:34) Why is Jesus a Representation of God if He Is God? How is the representation of something the actual something?
When 'we become like Christ' we will also, therefore, be representations of God…and Be God Himself – all of us Will Be God as Jesus Is God.
In any case, we are already God Himself, according to trinitarian thinking, because we are in the Image of God, just as Jesus is the Image of God – and they happily say that Jesus is God Himself.
Only a teaser: Why is there no mention of the FATHER OF GOD?
Neither, WJ, TT, katjo, Isaiah 1:18, nor any Scriptures, mention this anomaly.
We know who God is.
We know what the Holy Spirit of God is.
We know who the Son of God is.
But who is the Father of God?If Jesus is the Son of God (and he is) then who is his Father of God?
The Trinity Triangle
God Almighty
/ l \
Father Son Holy Spirit
of God of God of GodQ: Is the diagram above a good diagramatic representation of the Trinity God (Godhead)?
The (My) Monotheistic God
God (The Father, God Almighty, YHVH, 'I AM') <— Holy Spirit of God
Q: Is this a true diagramatic representation of the True, monotheistic, God?
All responses respected.
Hi JustAskin,People need: “BIBLE PERCEPTION“=151, to understand “BIBLE TRUTH“=117 ! (AKJV Eph.4:22-24)
“The God Numbers”=151 (26, 63, 74, 117 & 151) help to establish “Bible Truth”=117!Here is a better diagram representing God…
6823 is the 877th prime number in a long list of primes starting with two (2).
Now this might not seem significant until you realize that the number 877
is the 151st prime number. This number 151 shows “Unity” in Spirit.
YHVH GOD is ONE=151 (Deut.6:4 / Eph.4:6)
1) The LORD JEHOVAH=151 (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4) (Old “Testament”=117)
2) LORD of Hosts=151…(AKJV Bible)…His Hosts=117: Jesus and ALL of His brethren! (Rev.11:15)
3) Holy Spirit=151 (“The word” structure of “GOD”: Old and New “Testament”=117)
4) Jesus Christ=151 (The “Testator”=151) (Hebrews 9:16-17) (New “Testament”=117)
“YHVH is GOD”=117
“Block Geometry”=151 helps to illustrate the “HolyCity”=117 of GOD!YHVH GOD is One=151
The LORD JEHOVAH=151
LORD of Hosts=151
Holy Spirit=151
Jesus Christ=151
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD,
and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me,
and understand that I he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.The 151st “Bible verse”
Gen.6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is
filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.“The Keys of hell”=151 (Rev.1:18 / 1Peter 3:19-20)
There are 613 total commandments in “The Torah”=95; “JEHOVAH”=95 as well.
“Noah”=38 and “Death”=38. “YHVH”=63 saved Noah and his family in “The Ark”=63.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 11 2010,06:07) Hi JustAskin, People need: “BIBLE PERCEPTION“=151, to understand “BIBLE TRUTH“=117 ! (AKJV Eph.4:22-24)
“The God Numbers”=151 (26, 63, 74, 117 & 151) help to establish “Bible Truth”=117!Here is a better diagram representing God…
6823 is the 877th prime number in a long list of primes starting with two (2).
Now this might not seem significant until you realize that the number 877
is the 151st prime number. This number 151 shows “Unity” in Spirit.
YHVH GOD is ONE=151 (Deut.6:4 / Eph.4:6)
1) The LORD JEHOVAH=151 (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4) (Old “Testament”=117)
2) LORD of Hosts=151…(AKJV Bible)…His Hosts=117: Jesus and ALL of His brethren! (Rev.11:15)
3) Holy Spirit=151 (“The word” structure of “GOD”: Old and New “Testament”=117)
4) Jesus Christ=151 (The “Testator”=151) (Hebrews 9:16-17) (New “Testament”=117)
“YHVH is GOD”=117
“Block Geometry”=151 helps to illustrate the “HolyCity”=117 of GOD!YHVH GOD is One=151
The LORD JEHOVAH=151
LORD of Hosts=151
Holy Spirit=151
Jesus Christ=151
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD,
and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me,
and understand that I he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.The 151st “Bible verse”
Gen.6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is
filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.“The Keys of hell”=151 (Rev.1:18 / 1Peter 3:19-20)
There are 613 total commandments in “The Torah”=95; “JEHOVAH”=95 as well.
“Noah”=38 and “Death”=38. “YHVH”=63 saved Noah and his family in “The Ark”=63.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hey Ed.Did you know theres a Psalm 151?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_151
The text is here:
http://st-takla.org/pub_Deu….51.html
I have no idea what it means!?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 11 2010,01:21) JA………That is why there religion is called a MYSTERY because they don't even understand it and most Trinitarian Scholars will openly admit it. At least they are honest and admit it has to be taken on “Faith”. Without any true scriptural understandings. The same with Preexistences they tweak and force the text and ask us to believe Jesus was Morphed into existence from a preexisting demigod or some super beings who created all things. There are literally hundreds of spin-offs from the MYSTERY TEACHING caused by the Pagan APOSTATE CHURCHES. These are the Trinity, Preexistences, doctrines about Devils and Demons, and Literal Hell Fire teachings and on and on it goes, clouds of confusions fostered by false “Christendom” On us all. But thanks be to GOD the FATHER , he has seen fit to deliver us from their false teachings by the power of His Holy Spirit given us who truly believe. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Hi brother Gene,
Greetings to you after a long span of era. I really wonder how you are able to continue this boring journey of claims and counter claims on preexistence of Jesus. If Jesus was really human not a God in disguise I don't think this can hold good for people who stick on to their old grandma traditions.Hope God will continue to bless you in your quest for real Christ.
Peace and love to you
AdamHi Edj,
Thanks for the numbers – They are certainly enlightening.
I see that there are lots of words who's letters add up to words of significance.
Only one last thing: What of the words whose letters add up to something pertaining to God but are not of God (All be it that ALL is of God – I mean Positive Truth of God)
Could 151 or 117 be summed from a word like “Satan is untruth” or “God of the Dead” – that sort of thing?
Quote (JustAskin @ April 13 2010,23:24) Hi Edj, Thanks for the numbers – They are certainly enlightening.
I see that there are lots of words who's letters add up to words of significance.
Only one last thing: What of the words whose letters add up to something pertaining to God but are not of God (All be it that ALL is of God – I mean Positive Truth of God)
Could 151 or 117 be summed from a word like “Satan is untruth” or “God of the Dead” – that sort of thing?
Hi JustAskin,Read the Seventh Post down (Posted by me) from the top (Here).
It's in reference to Rev.9:11 connecting it to Isaiah 30:25-26; which talks about when the “Towers” fall.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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