Preexistence

[942767]

Hi WJ:

This scripture also may help:

Quote

Luke 9:23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 31 2010,07:30)

TT, What 'Law' did God give to Adam? Only God is Perfect…? So how do you say that the man, Jesus was 'Perfect'? The 'Contingency plan'…? How do you say that I didn't give a Scripture. Do you not know what it was? My my… Well, I'll keep you guessing. Take some time off and investigate and then come back here and reconsider your ideas.

“You shall not eat” was the law God gave Adam. This means that Adam was not perfect. A perfect man would not need a law.

Only God is perfect. God cannot create God. Therefore, Adam was not created perfect.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 31 2010,08:05)

All, Is it Sacrilege to say that God created an 'imperfect' image of Himself. I will accept all responses.

TO ALL:

It is sacrilege to say that God can create God. Only God is perfect. Therefore, Adam was not created perfect.

thinker

[Ed J]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,07:01) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,05:54) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,05:02) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38) Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi Hi Jodi, Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males; you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture… Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son? Not so accurate Sis, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org David was a PROPHET whom God revealed the coming Messiah to. God told David that this savior would COME FROM HIS SEED and that this MAN of his seed would sit on the kingdom of his throne for eternity. Jesus is of the seed of David, he is the Son of David, but as scripture tells us the MAN Jesus was MADE by God as a Master and Christ to ALL of MANKIND, thus Jesus is the Master of his own Father David. Hi Jodi, For someone (like you Jodi) that puts themselves in the position of a teacher (1Tm.1:7), aught to have their FACTS CORRECT! I told you this “once before” when you (with a “W”) incorrectly Posted God's translated Name: “YHVH”! (Matt.13:22 / John 5:44) You are putting 'spin' on Scripture again! Try to be a little more accurate; OK? David was NOT Jesus Father! JESUS' FATHER was The “HolySpirit”! Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary(Luke 3:23-31) was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit. Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, JOSEPH, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary(Luke 3:23-31) thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her(Luke 3:23-31), The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.                        “YHVH is GOD”=117 PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]! Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org YHWH or YHVH. Either one for me. The Ancient Hebrew Research Center uses YHWH and that is good enough for me. Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.  31  And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.  32  He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; andthe Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33  And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”  34  Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”  35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David. We have scripture that tells us that the coming Messiah is to be of the seed of David. Mary did not understand how this could be since she had not known a man, and she was told that her son would come through the POWER of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was born a flesh and blood human just like us, however the power of God's Spirit is what brought forth his conception, instead of two people mating. YLT Matthew 1:18 And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit, The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child.

Hi Jodi,

Since you are “willing”(free will) to be accurate(FACTS ONLY), lets' be accurate then with NO 'spin'(opinions 'loosely' biased on FACTS); OK?

FACT #1: I Proved to you (Theomatically verified: Matt.18:16) YHVH is (יהוה) God's English translated Name; Hebrew has NO “W” SOUND!

FACT #2: “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20), that is why the book of Luke(Luke 1:35) calls Jesus “The Son of God”!

Here is an “Example” of how you put 'spin' on the “Facts”…

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20)

The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David.

This 'sounds' like you are calling Mary's son to be David?

FACT #3: The Angel Gabriel (NOT “The LORD GOD”) declares…
               Luke 1:32…”the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David”

FACT #4: Jesus is NOT (Luke 20:41-44) 'the son of David', Mary was! Luke 1:32 is based on Mary's Father's linage l
isted in Luke 3:23-31.  
               THESE ARE THE FACTS (Fact #3, #4 and #5) which you have NOT “Properly” presented, your personal bias(spin) is misleading!

FACT #5: The Bible says Jesus Parents “are” Mary(Jesus mother: Luke 3:23-31) and HolySpirit(Jesus' Father: Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20).
               That would make Jesus (according to FACTS in the bible) 50% Man(Son of woman) and 50% HolySpirit(God)

Here is an another “Example” of how you put 'spin' on the “Facts”…

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20)

The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child.

This 'sounds' like you are discounting THE FACT that [יהשוע המשיח YÄ-shü-ă hä-Mäh-shē-äkh]
(1/2God & 1/2 Man) was created in God's own (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm) image!

Let's try to stay within the bounds and scope of “Bible Truth”=117; OK, Jodi?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[JustAskin]

TT,

Is that a Law or a Command? Define it by context:
God gave man one LAW
God gave man one COMMAND

Do the Scriptures say God gave man ten Laws – or does it say God gave man ten Command[ment]s?

And, then, what part of 'Sacrilege' do I not understand?

TT, you say that “Only God can create God”.
TT, A God cannot be “Created”…! That is why there is ONLY ONE GOD. YHWH is the ONE TRUE GOD who IS the ONLY Uncreated Being – That is WHY He is God.

Also, trying the “frighten the children” thing by stating that it would be “Sacrilege” doesn't wash.

You say “Only God is Perfect” and so it is. The Perfect God who created an IMperfect man but then created a Perfect Man called Jesus – sommat confusing here?

TT, your first post is also awry:
“Only God is perfect. God cannot create God. Therefore, Adam was not created perfect.”

TT, I presume you mean God=Deity: Adam was not a GOD (Deity)
You compare Apples with Pears, my man!

A God cannot be created therefore Jesus is cannot be a God
There is only ONE God (YHWH) therefore Jesus (Who is npt YHWH) cannot be God
… Why am I arguing this point ?!

[Ed J]

Quote (JustAskin @ April 01 2010,00:08)

TT, There is only ONE God (YHWH) therefore Jesus (Who is npt YHWH) cannot be God … Why am I arguing this point ?!

Hi JustAskin,

Because you don't know what your talking about… Click here

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[JustAskin]

Hi EDJ,

Can you just tell me what you mean.

Regards JA

[JustAskin]

EDJ,

Is it because I wrote “YHWH” instead of “YHVH”?

Ja

[Ed J]

Quote (JustAskin @ April 01 2010,00:51)

EDJ, Is it because I wrote “YHWH” instead of “YHVH”? (yes) Ja

Quote (JustAskin @ April 01 2010,00:48)

Hi EDJ, Can you just tell me what you mean. (Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13) Regards JA

Hi JustAskin,

Yes; and I can explain it thoroughly for you so you can stop 'polleying'
the lies perpetrated by 'the systems of religion' and 'traditions of men'!
    The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except
      distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

Hebrew does NOT have a “W” sound so יהוה CANNOT be represented with a “W” in it.
                      Why are people so 'stuck' on this mistranslation of YHVH?

In the 1611 AKJV Bible: God's Name was put as Iehovah, why don't you use that?
                  It's because researchers have discovered JEHOVAH is more correct.

I sincerely hope you will NOT persist in this “FOLLY”! (Prob.18:13 / Prob.14:18)
Prob.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Prob.14:18 The simple inherit folly(a non existent “W”): but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.
Prob.25:2: It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter(of pronouncing יהוה).

The closest you can come is to mispronounce (the Vav) in יהוה as Yäh-oo-ă or Yäh-oo-ā (See Chart on link) Click Here
I have extensively researched this and those are 'incorrect' pronunciations of יהוה; the middle syllable is always pronounced! (Prob.14:15)
Prob.14:15: The simple believeth every word (of the systems of religion: Rev.18:3): but the prudent man looketh well to his(Ed J's) going.
Psalm 45:17 I(Ed J) will make thy name (יהוה YÄ-hä-vā) to be remembered in all generations:
                   therefore shall the people praise thee (“YHVH“) for ever and ever.

                       “YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

ED J……….But are you not putting a Spin on what Jodi's over all points are that Scripture say the Jesus (IS) the offspring of DAVID , You seem to only dig out what you can use to support your dogmas , and not the rest that support what the person is saying , If you deny Jesus as a Son of DAVID the KING then it is you who are spinning scriptures to meet your dogmas. What facts say Jesus was 50% man and 50% Holy Spirit, that is found (NOWHERE) in Scripture, so who is doing the spinning, Neither is it that WE ALL HAVE A “FREE” WILL IN US. You may be doing a lot More SPINNING Here then you even realize. IMO

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 01 2010,04:00)

ED J……….But are you not putting a Spin on what Jodi's over all points are that Scripture say the Jesus (IS) the offspring of DAVID , You seem to only dig out what you can use to support your dogmas , and not the rest that support what the person is saying , If you deny Jesus as a Son of DAVID the KING then it is you who are spinning scriptures to meet your dogmas. What facts say Jesus was 50% man and 50% Holy Spirit, that is found (NOWHERE) in Scripture, so who is doing the spinning, Neither is it that WE ALL HAVE A “FREE” WILL IN US. You may be doing a lot More SPINNING Here then you even realize. IMO

Hi Gene,

I appreciate your “Willingness” to defend Jodi (from me) once again,
but there is no need to “Choose” insulting word structures (dogmas)?
I assure you Jodi does NOT need your “Free Will” choice of protection!

I merely specified some very significant Biblical points…

1) Biblically recorded Hebrew lineage goes by that of the male.

2) Mary's lineage on her father's side(Her mother is from the tribe of Levi) goes back to Nathan(“Son of David”)! (No 'spin' here)

3) Jesus' male ancestry lineage (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35) STOPS at Jesus' FATHER(HolySpirit)! (See: Bottom of my Post)
    Does that NOT make Jesus 50% God(HolySpirit)? If you disagree then explain why?
    Biblical references would be helpful if you want people to take 'your' view seriously!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. When (in the Past) you said(in essence): 'nowhere in the Bible does it say man has a “Free Will” '
I gave you 18 Bible Verses PROVING “Free Will”! Are you looking in a mirror (with your Free Will choice) to use the word 'dogma'? (Psalm 18:25-27)

           Jesus Father is GOD(HolySpirit)! Here are a “few” Biblical referensces to support Jesus being 50% GOD!

Matt.4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Matt.4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge
concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matt.8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matt.14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matt. 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee
by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matt.27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matt.27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Matt.27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake,
and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out,
and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple,
and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God.
And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said,
What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 22:70: Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:25: Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 9:35: Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom.1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2Cor.1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us,
even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Heb.4:1: Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb.6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them
again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb.7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days,
nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb.10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy,
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant,
wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God
hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;
that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God, and eternal life.
Rev.2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God,
who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

[KangarooJack]

JustAskin said:

Quote

TT, you say that “Only God can create God”.

JA,

You read my post as you read the scriptures. I did not say that God can create God. I said it is “sacrilege to say that God can create God.”

You infer that God can create God because you say that he created Adam perfect. Only God is perfect.

God gave Adam a law/commmand which means that he was not created perfect. You admitted that there is no scripture which says that Adam was created perfect. So why do you try to prove something you admit has no scripture backing?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

ED J said to JustAskin:

Quote

Hi JustAskin, Yes; and I can explain it thoroughly for you so you can stop 'polleying' the lies perpetrated by 'the systems of religion' and 'traditions of men'!

Yak yak yak….

thinker

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,23:21)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,07:01) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,05:54) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,05:02) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38) Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi Hi Jodi, Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males; you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture… Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son? Not so accurate Sis, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org David was a PROPHET whom God revealed the coming Messiah to. God told David that this savior would COME FROM HIS SEED and that this MAN of his seed would sit on the kingdom of his throne for eternity. Jesus is of the seed of David, he is the Son of David, but as scripture tells us the MAN Jesus was MADE by God as a Master and Christ to ALL of MANKIND, thus Jesus is the Master of his own Father David. Hi Jodi, For someone (like you Jodi) that puts themselves in the position of a teacher (1Tm.1:7), aught to have their FACTS CORRECT! I told you this “once before” when you (with a “W”) incorrectly Posted God's translated Name: “YHVH”! (Matt.13:22 / John 5:44) You are putting 'spin' on Scripture again! Try to be a little more accurate; OK? David was NOT Jesus Father! JESUS' FATHER was The “HolySpirit”! Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary(Luke 3:23-31) was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit. Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, JOSEPH, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary(Luke 3:23-31) thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her(Luke 3:23-31), The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.                        “YHVH is GOD”=117 PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]! Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org YHWH or YHVH. Either one for me. The Ancient Hebrew Research Center uses YHWH and that is good enough for me. Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.  31  And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.  32  He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; andthe Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33  And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”  34  Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”  35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David. We have scripture that tells us that the coming Messiah is to be of the seed of David. Mary did not understand how this could be since she had not known a man, and she was told that her son would come through the POWER of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was born a flesh and blood human just like us, however the power of God's Spirit is what brought forth his conception, instead of two people mating. YLT Matthew 1:18 And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit, The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child. Hi Jodi, Since you are “willing”(free will) to be accurate(FACTS ONLY), lets' be accurate then with NO 'spin'(opinions 'loosely' biased on FACTS); OK? FACT #1: I Proved to you (Theomatically verified: Matt.18:16) YHVH is (יהוה) God's English translated Name; Hebrew has NO “W” SOUND! FACT #2: “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20), that is why the book of Luke(Luke 1:35) calls Jesus “The Son of God”! Here is an “Example” of how you put 'spin' on the “Facts”… Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20) The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David. This 'sounds' like you are calling Mary's son to be David? FACT #3: The Angel Gabriel (NOT “The LORD GOD”) declares…                Luke 1:32… “the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David” FACT #4: Jesus is NOT (Luke 20:41-44) 'the son of David', Mary was! Luke 1:32 is based on Mary's Father's linage listed in Luke 3:23-31.                  THESE ARE THE FACTS (Fact #3, #4 and #5) which you have NOT “Properly” presented, your personal bias(spin) is misleading! FACT #5: The Bible says Jesus Parents “are” Mary(Jesus mother: Luke 3:23-31) and HolySpirit(Jesus' Father: Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20).                That would make Jesus (according to FACTS in the bible) 50% Man(Son of woman) and 50% HolySpirit(God) Here is an another “Example” of how you put 'spin' on the “Facts”… Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20) The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child. This 'sounds' like you are discounting THE FACT that [יהשוע המשיח YÄ-shü-ă hä-Mäh-shē-äkh] (1/2God & 1/2 Man) was created in God's own (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm) image! Let's try to stay within the bounds and scope of “Bible Truth”=117; OK, Jodi? Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Scripture shows that the Power of the Holy Spirit caused Mary to be pregnant with a human child. Scripture does not say that the embryo in Mary was part man part holy spirit. Mary became pregnant of, or rather, BY, or FROM the Holy Spirit. Jesus is FLESH to say otherwise is PURE ANTICHRIST! The virgin birth was to FULFILL prophecy as scripture states. The virgin birth has nothing to do with Jesus needing to be physically part God. God is not physical He is Spirit. Jesus was and IS Flesh and Bones.

Before the birth of Jesus it was prophesied unto David that of his seed God would be a Father unto that seed. I believe that is a FACT you are neglecting Ed J. When the seed of David was conceived in Mary's womb, this HUMAN seed YHVH promised to be a Father to, was rightly said to be the Son of God. Ed J, it seems that you are relying on your own inference to the scripture giving this nonsense of Jesus being 50% Holy Spirit. Jesus as Son of God, we are DIRECTLY shown comes out of PROPHECY where God would be a Father unto David's seed.

What about Adam then what was he?

Luke 3:38 which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. 

Abraham came from Adam, we ALL came from Adam, and Matthew 1 tells us directly that the genealogy of Jesus comes from Joseph to David to Abraham, Good grief you are saying I am spinning things when I am using DIRECT LANGUAGE from the bible. Jesus is directly called David's Son, this is in terms of ancestry. Luke 3 links Jesus as Son of God through Adam.

The problem for Adam and all those born after him was SIN. Sin is deserving of death and death separates us from our Heavenly Father. Luke tells us directly that Adam, who was formed out of the dust, was the SON of God.  To be a Son of God has nothing to do with being physically part God, it has EVERYTHING to do with sin and death. Jesus was without sin, and in Jesus our sins are forgiven and thus we are reconciled back to God being Children of God once again.

Jesus was without sin not because he was physically part Holy Spirit but because the Holy Spirit was at work IN Him, causing him, through influence to his HUMAN BRAIN, to perfectly follow God. The New Covenant in Christ is the PROMISE that God will work this Spirit in us as He did with Jesus, giving us the influence to follow His ways and walk perfectly in Unity with Him.

Hebrews 8:6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.   7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.   8  For finding fault with them, he saith , Behold , the days come , saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:   9  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not , saith the Lord.   10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:  

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean : from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.  26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.   27  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.  28  And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Jesus is called the Son of David. Jesus is after all the Son of Man!

Luke 1:31  And, behold , thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.   32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David  

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying , and saying , Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.  

Matthew 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before , and that followed , cried , saying , Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

This is relating to Jesus as Messiah as the Son of David. For UNTO ISRAEL a Savior would be BORN of the SEED of David!!

Ed J, the Angel Gabriel is CALLED Angel/Messenger because he  is a Messenger of God. When the Angel speaks he is speaking FOR God.

Please read my post on the conception thread, I would like to see you address the scriptures given there.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,19:08)

Hi WJ: This scripture also may help: Quote Luke 9:23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

{{{{SHAKING HEAD}}}}

You are totally evading the point.

The point is the same devotion we are required to give to the Father is also required to give to Jesus.

In Hebrew thought, that would be a violation of the Shema if Jesus is not the “True God”, One with the Father and the Holy Spirit!

I have heard you claim before that it is because of Trinitarianism that the Jews do not accept Jesus, but that is not the whole truth Marty. The Jews reject Jesus because of the claim that he was the “ONLY Begotten” Son of God! To the Hebrew to claim that God was exclusively your own Father was claiming that you are equal to God! John 5:17, 18

Why do you think it was so special for Peter to recieve the revelation or the demons crying out that he was “The Son of God” and Jesus telling them not to tell others if it was a common phrase used among the Jews for God being their own personal Father? Mk 3:11, 12

Marty, Is Jesus first in your life?

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ April 01 2010,06:33)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,23:21) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,07:01) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,05:54) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,05:02) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38) Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi Hi Jodi, Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males; you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture… Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son? Not so accurate Sis, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org David was a PROPHET whom God revealed the coming Messiah to. God told David that this savior would COME FROM HIS SEED and that this MAN of his seed would sit on the kingdom of his throne for eternity. Jesus is of the seed of David, he is the Son of David, but as scripture tells us the MAN Jesus was MADE by God as a Master and Christ to ALL of MANKIND, thus Jesus is the Master of his own Father David. Hi Jodi, For someone (like you Jodi) that puts themselves in the position of a teacher (1Tm.1:7), aught to have their FACTS CORRECT! I told you this “once before” when you (with a “W”) incorrectly Posted God's translated Name: “YHVH”! (Matt.13:22 / John 5:44) You are putting 'spin' on Scripture again! Try to be a little more accurate; OK? David was NOT Jesus Father! JESUS' FATHER was The “HolySpirit”! Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary(Luke 3:23-31) was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit. Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, JOSEPH, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary(Luke 3:23-31) thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her(Luke 3:23-31), The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.                        “YHVH is GOD”=117 PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]! Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org YHWH or YHVH. Either one for me. The Ancient Hebrew Research Center uses YHWH and that is good enough for me. Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.  31  And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.  32  He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; andthe Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33  And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”  34  Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”  35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David. We have scripture that tells us that the coming Messiah is to be of the seed of David. Mary did not understand how this could be since she had not known a man, and she was told that her son would come through the POWER of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was born a flesh and blood human just like us, however the power of God's Spirit is what brought forth his conception, instead of two people mating. YLT Matthew 1:18 And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit, The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child. Hi Jodi, Since you are “willing”(free will) to be accurate(FACTS ONLY), lets' be accurate then with NO 'spin'(opinions 'loosely' biased on FACTS); OK? FACT #1: I Proved to you (Theomatically verified: Matt.18:16) YHVH is (יהוה) God's English translated Name; Hebrew has NO “W” SOUND! FACT #2: “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20), that is why the book of Luke(Luke 1:35) calls Jesus “The Son of God”! Here is an “Example” of how you put 'spin' on the “Facts”… Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20) The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David. This 'sounds' like you are calling Mary's son to be David? FACT #3: The Angel Gabriel (NOT “The LORD GOD”) declares…                Luke 1:32…”the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David” FACT #4: Jesus is NOT (Luke 20:41-44) 'the son of David', Mary was! Luke 1:32 is based on Mary's Father's linage listed in Luke 3:23-31.                  THESE ARE THE FACTS (Fact #3, #4 and #5) which you have NOT “Properly” presented, your personal bias(spin) is misleading! FACT #5: The Bible says Jesus Parents “are” Mary(Jesus mother: Luke 3:23-31) and HolySpirit(Jesus' Father: Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20).                That would make Jesus (according to FACTS in the bible) 50% Man(Son of woman) and 50% HolySpirit(God) Here is an another “Example” of how you put 'spin' on the “Facts”… Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,09:20) The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child. This 'sounds' like you are discounting THE FACT that [יהשוע המשיח YÄ-shü-ă hä-Mäh-shē-äkh] (1/2God & 1/2 Man) was created in God's own (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm) image! Let's try to stay within the bounds and scope of “Bible Truth”=117; OK, Jodi? Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Scripture shows that the Power of the Holy Spirit caused Mary to be pregnant with a human child. Scripture does not say that the embryo in Mary was part man part holy spirit. Mary became pregnant of, or rather, BY, or FROM the Holy Spirit. Jesus is FLESH to say otherwise is PURE ANTICHRIST! The virgin birth was to FULFILL prophecy as scripture states. The virgin birth has nothing to do with Jesus needing to be physically part God. God is not physical He is Spirit. Jesus was and IS Flesh and Bones. Before the birth of Jesus it was prophesied unto David that of his seed God would be a Father unto that seed. I believe that is a FACT you are neglecting Ed J. When the seed of David was conceived in Mary's womb, this HUMAN seed YHVH promised to be a Father to, was rightly said to be the Son of God. Ed J, it seems that you are relying on your own inference to the scripture giving this nonsense of Jesus being 50% Holy Spirit. Jesus as Son of God, we are DIRECTLY shown comes out of PROPHECY where God would be a Father unto David's seed.

Hi Jodi,

How have I neglected the 'son of David' connection? (Luke 3:23-31)
I have stated Mary's father's lineage goes back to Nathen(son of David).
Jesus step dad's lineage (as well) goes back to (son of David). (Matt.1:6-16)
These are the “Only” connections to “son of David”(regarding Jesus' lineage).

David's 'curse' was NOT passed down to Jesus through the 'son of david' lineage! (Rev.22:16)
2Sam:12:10: Now therefore the sword (curse) shall never depart from thine house (Rev.22:16);
because thou hast despised me, and hast taken(Free Will) the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
Rev.22:16 I Jesus have sent mine [messenger](Ed J) to testify unto you these things in the churches.
i am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star(Lucifer). (LUKE 20:41-44)
'great i am'=74 is Lucifer=74(satan's=74 name and 'title')! (Nahum 1:14/Gal.2:20/Rev.13:1/Rev.18:3)

THESE ARE IMPORTANT FACTS 'YOU' ARE NEGLECTING (Psalm 18:25-27)
Jesus IS “the Son of HolySpirit“(Son of God); NOT 'son of david'! (no 'spin')
Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee(Ed J) shall prosper; and every
tongue that shall rise against thee(Ed J) in judgment thou shall condemn. This is the heritage
of the servants (Isaiah 44:26) of [YHVH], and their righteousness is of me, saith [“I The LORD GOD”=117].

                       “YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Jodi Lee]

Ed J,

You said, “I have stated Mary's father's lineage goes back to Nathen(son of David). Jesus step dad's lineage (as well) goes back to (son of David). (Matt.1:6-16) These are the “Only” connections to “son of David”(regarding Jesus' lineage).”

You are greatly mistaken with Matthew 1, it is NOT the lineage of a step dad being given, it DIRECTLY states that it IS the lineage of JESUS that is being given!!

1  The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:  2  Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers.  3  Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram.  4  Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon.  5  Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse,  6  and Jesse begot David the king. David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife  of Uriah.  7  Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa.   8  Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah.  9  Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah.  10  Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon,  and Amon begot Josiah.  11  Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.  12  And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel.  13  Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor.  14  Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud.  15  Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob.  16  And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.  17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Jesus the Messiah of whom was promised to be of the seed of David, is shown in Matthew to be the true Son of Joseph.

Luke 1:27  to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.  28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”   29  But when she saw him,  she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was.  30  Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.  31  And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.  32  He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

We are addressed with Joseph being of the house of David, then we are told that Jesus shall sit on the throne of his Father David. This is stated after scripture is quoting from the OT where God told David that someone of his seed He would be a Father to.

JESUS is called the Son of the Highest, NOT because he is half Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Son of God BECAUSE God promised David that He would be a Father unto his SEED. Scripture does not say that God would make a Son using David's seed and His own. God says that He would be a Father to David's SEED. That seed or rather person of that seed, would have to already exist in order for God to Father it. RIGHT?

1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall be, when your days are fulfilled, when you must go to be with your fathers, that I will set up your seed after you, who will be of your sons; and I will establish his kingdom.  12  He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne forever.  13 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son; and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him who was before you. [/b] 14  And I will establish him in My house and in My kingdom forever; and his throne shall be established forever.” '  

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?

As mentioned before, Jesus being the Son of God, is DIRECTLY shown to BE BECAUSE God promised David that He would be a Father unto his seed, it has nothing to do with Jesus being literally part God.

1 Chronicles 28:6 Now He said to me, 'It is your son Solomon who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be My son, and I will be his Father.

Was Solomon half Holy Spirit?

You did not address the fact that Adam is called the Son of God.

Was Adam Half Holy Spirit?

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 01 2010,06:47)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,19:08) Hi WJ: This scripture also may help: Quote Luke 9:23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels Love in Christ, Marty Marty {{{{SHAKING HEAD}}}} You are totally evading the point. The point is the same devotion we are required to give to the Father is also required to give to Jesus. In Hebrew thought, that would be a violation of the Shema if Jesus is not the “True God”, One with the Father and the Holy Spirit! I have heard you claim before that it is because of Trinitarianism that the Jews do not accept Jesus, but that is not the whole truth Marty. The Jews reject Jesus because of the claim that he was the “ONLY Begotten” Son of God! To the Hebrew to claim that God was exclusively your own Father was claiming that you are equal to God! John 5:17, 18 Why do you think it was so special for Peter to recieve the revelation or the demons crying out that he was “The Son of God” and Jesus telling them not to tell others if it was a common phrase used among the Jews for God being their own personal Father? Mk 3:11, 12 Marty, Is Jesus first in your life? WJ

Hi WJ:

And so, the point is that you are trying to convince me that Jesus is God and that the “trinity doctrine” is the truth.

WJ we are way beyond that, and you can quit wasting your time trying to convince me of this.

Yes, Jesus is first in my life. He is my Lord, and I am submitted to God through him.

He already told me that he was ascending to his God and my God, and he said when you pray, say “Our Father (his and mine) which art in heaven…”

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Elizabeth]

Marty!   Even though I do not agree on the trinity, however Jesus did exist before His Birth here on earth.  
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
Firstborn of all creation and after that Jesus created all by the power of the Father.
John 1:1 tells us that He was The Word of God.
verse 14 tells us that that Word became flesh and dwelt among us.  Jesus was also called God by His Father in Hebrew 1:8-9
The one Scripture that tells us in
Col. 1:18 is that He also is the firstborn of the dead.  So in all things He will have preeminence, meaning He was first in born and first to be resurrected from the dead.
The one Scriptures that prove Jesus was The Word of God is in
Rev. 19:13 “He was clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.
in verse 16 makes it very clear that
“And on His robe and on His thigh is a name written:

 KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Is there another person who had this name written on their robe and thigh?  No…..

And by Jesus own word He said this in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the World was.

And there are some Scriptures that not to many believe, but I know t8 does are in
Proverbs 8:22-30
Can a craftsman be Wisdom, which some believe ?  No.
I will give you a few more, but I am not going to write them out, I proved to myself that Jesus preexisted, it's your turn.  
John 6:38-40 This is Jesus saying where He came from
John 8:58
John 3:17
John 1:15
These are some good Scriptures yet will you and others believe what Jesus said?  I believe if you deny Jesus, He will one day deny you, IMO  
Peace and Love Irene

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 01 2010,06:47)

The point is the same devotion we are required to give to the Father is also required to give to Jesus. In Hebrew thought, that would be a violation of the Shema if Jesus is not the “True God”, One with the Father and the Holy Spirit!

We are to honour the son as we honour the Father. It makes sense because to honour not the son who is the image of God, would be to not honour the invisible God that he is the image of.

Your idea that this somehow proves that Jesus is God is seriously flawed. What you are to derive from it is that Jesus is the son of God and therefore if you do not honour the one whom God has sent, then how can you honour God.

Similarly (but not as exactly), if we hate men (whom we can see), then how can we love God whom we cannot see?

I challenge you to prove what I am saying here is not correct.

[Author]

Posts